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Author Topic: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot  (Read 2810 times)

kevs

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2019, 02:06:50 pm »

David, great point. This guy from the UK, sent a mood board with all these complex portraits, and said he just needed some to "grab a few photos" - which is laughable -- from 2-4pm and did not have much info beyond that. I had  4-5 questions to price and shoot this.  He would not call. He said the date in a few days and just wanted a rate.

Would you even respond the that response, or maybe create a little blurb, for these dufas types?
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David Eichler

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2019, 08:54:25 pm »

David, great point. This guy from the UK, sent a mood board with all these complex portraits, and said he just needed some to "grab a few photos" - which is laughable -- from 2-4pm and did not have much info beyond that. I had  4-5 questions to price and shoot this.  He would not call. He said the date in a few days and just wanted a rate.

Would you even respond the that response, or maybe create a little blurb, for these dufas types?

There are a lot scam emails about photo assignments out there, especially ones that purport to come from major publications and seem to use valid email addresses.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2019, 09:17:54 pm »

Well of course. Why wouldnít we?
I don't know.  For some reason I thought we didn't agree on things. Must be age on my part. Now it's nice to know we do.  :)

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2019, 10:06:10 pm »

I don't know.  For some reason I thought we didn't agree on things. Must be age on my part. Now it's nice to know we do.  :)

Iím sure there are things we donít agree on. I have no issue not agreeing with people. Itís normal. The trick is to look at the argument the person is making and decide on its merits and to not disagree simply because of who made the argument. I admit that can be difficult at times with some people. Your arguments and insights on this thread agree with my own experiences and are well put and clearly useful to the general discussion.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2019, 10:24:28 pm »

I seem to recall that you are not a professional and you seem to be responding from the perspective of the sort of client under discussion here. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to speak with the photographer from their perspective. However, for many professional photographers, prospective clients whose only criteria is price are not the sort of clients on which to build a sustainable business. Aside from that, many photographers tend to need more information about the assignment than the prospect provides in the initial inquiry, and a phone conversation can sometimes be the most efficient way to achieve this.

David, you are right, that is exactly the point I wanted to make, that there are two players in this scenario, with opposite agendas. When I did do professional work, I used to do it initially face-to-face with their marketing director. I also used to deliver the final work in person, which gave us the opportunity to discuss what can be done differently next time (I did eight architectural projects for them). Before the next assignment, we would discuss it over the phone, if there are specific circumstances that differed from previous projects. You can hardly beat that type of communication.

If a client is really interested in you, they would call and discuss the project. What was described above sounds like a fishing expedition with a lower-level clerk just providing a ballpark to their boss. There is always an option to ignore such requests, as in all likelihood they wouldn't lead to a serious business. However, it wouldn't hurt to respond in brief, yet professional manner, as one never knows when it might turn into a gig, now, or perhaps months down the road.

tcphoto1

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2019, 10:41:56 am »

People are busy being busy and do not want or prefer not to speak on the phone. Many will send a note with the details that they chose to disclose and expect me to read their minds. Rather than give me the information I need to draft an estimate, they merely want a number for the project. They don't want to hear about licensing, travel expenses or anything else, just the number. When I receive these types of notes, I rely on my 25 years in the business and do my best to provide them with the basic quote. Let them process the information and compare it to the others they probably requested.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2019, 10:54:13 am »

People are busy being busy and do not want or prefer not to speak on the phone. Many will send a note with the details that they chose to disclose and expect me to read their minds. Rather than give me the information I need to draft an estimate, they merely want a number for the project. They don't want to hear about licensing, travel expenses or anything else, just the number. When I receive these types of notes, I rely on my 25 years in the business and do my best to provide them with the basic quote. Let them process the information and compare it to the others they probably requested.

What's your percentage in getting the jobs?

kevs

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2019, 12:04:47 pm »

TC so you reply, do you ever get these jobs.  I replied with quote 6-7 times over last few years, and I have never heard back. My guess is they are bottom feeders waiting for lowest number. That quality is not of importance, hence why wont call to talk..

Still this is rare, most will call/ talk.... but it's annoying enough to post ask....
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tcphoto1

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2019, 01:04:03 pm »

What's your percentage in getting the jobs?

Thankfully, not many. These types are typically bottom feeders, they are not influenced by quality but only want the lowest price. The desirable clients are looking for quality images and typically want to establish a longterm relationship, those people want to discuss the project, see how well you communicate and understand their brand.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2019, 02:48:17 pm »

Thankfully, not many. These types are typically bottom feeders, they are not influenced by quality but only want the lowest price. The desirable clients are looking for quality images and typically want to establish a longterm relationship, those people want to discuss the project, see how well you communicate and understand their brand.

It's like when you shop for a camera.  Buying on the internet is convenient.  But it's nice to handle the material, see how it fits in your hand.  Buyer and seller like to line themselves up with each other to feel each other out, to establish a relation.  Those that buy on price will only drop you like a hot potato if the next guy is cheaper by a nickel.  Then you got to chase them for payments.

kevs

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2019, 05:20:36 pm »

TC I have never landed one, so debating weather to even reply, but you do reply because... you never know..?
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chez

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2019, 08:12:30 pm »

TC I have never landed one, so debating weather to even reply, but you do reply because... you never know..?

How much does it cost you to reply? I've been in other businesses that ask for ballpark quotes off a high level description of the project. They make a short list of potentials and provide much more detailed information where they expect a much more detailed ( much more cost to come up with the proposal ) proposal with final costs and deliveries. This is standard practice is many industries.

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kevs

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2019, 09:10:14 pm »

Thanks Chez, well, I may reply to their email that they wont talk, but I think it will be a reply that I don't do business with those who don't don't.. but keep me in mind for future assignments where the job is important to talk live. Something to that effect.

I doubt that is even worth the effort.  But I don't think I'll continue sending rates as that takes some energy to calculate, and again, I never these no discussion gigs, as my rates are higher than most others, and my main selling point is quality.  I never find out if they like the quality as we are communicating only by  impersonal email.

but who knows. if I'm drooling for it maybe I send a rate, but rare. Again 95 % will call, but this is for those annoying 5% who wont.....
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2019, 11:34:55 pm »

Imagine you phone a supermarket and say you need groceries for a family for a month, please send a quote. No you canít say how big a family or what they eat. How useful is that actually? Who has time for that type of crap.
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chez

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2019, 09:11:19 am »

Imagine you phone a supermarket and say you need groceries for a family for a month, please send a quote. No you canít say how big a family or what they eat. How useful is that actually? Who has time for that type of crap.

Why can't the e-mail contain the information you need to get a good ballpark quote? Do you really think a customer will just ask for a quote without giving any info?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2019, 10:10:58 am »

You could give a range saying final price depends on review of detail requirements.  Keep the low end low to keep yourself in the ballpark.  If they're interested they'll get back. 

chez

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2019, 10:58:49 am »

You could give a range saying final price depends on review of detail requirements.  Keep the low end low to keep yourself in the ballpark.  If they're interested they'll get back.

That's a good approach and is exactly what I did when quoting on projects in another industry.

If replying to an unsolicited e-mail request is too time consuming then it appears like one would have enough work being busy already.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2019, 11:32:53 am »

I'm not familiar with your industry.  But I think something along the lines of:  'A day's shoot runs $850 -$2500 depending on the number of assistants and required props and special lighting you need and other factors.  Please call me so we can go over the details and pin down the final price" or words to that effect. Short and sweet.    I wouldn't list every issue.  Someone buying previously knows there are many issues affecting price including the above as well as overtime, location of shoot and travel time, how they intend to use your pictures, etc. . Just enough to make it obvious that an exact price cannot be given at this time. A novice buyer is only looking for the cheapest price and is wasting your time.     

David Eichler

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 03:56:25 pm »

Do you really think a customer will just ask for a quote without giving any info?

It happens all too often. Want me to photograph your building for you? I need to know if it is located in my city or half way around the world, how many different views of it will be needed, whether the photos will be used on your website only or in a wide variety of other media, how much access to the building I will have, and so on.

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chez

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Re: Those who wont call to discuss their shoot
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2019, 04:08:43 pm »

It happens all too often. Want me to photograph your building for you? I need to know if it is located in my city or half way around the world, how many different views of it will be needed, whether the photos will be used on your website only or in a wide variety of other media, how much access to the building I will have, and so on.

So the e-mail is just "I want you to photograph my building". That's it? If so, then delete e-mail and move on. But things like how many views, access, usage etc... are details that come later when you are asked for a final quote.

Put it this way, do you want to do all the detailed work to come up with a detailed quote...likely hours of work, if you are one of 20 people that have been sent this request?
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