New HP Z9+ Evaluation Video

[Mark Lindquist]

No one said anything about yelling and screaming, I can't even get to first base to ask valid pre sales questions.

Your reply sounds unnecessarily sarcastic when I was looking for real help to actually talk to some one. Sorry if I misunderstood your tone, sir.

You have misunderstood my tone Doctor White. I think I have not misunderstood yours, however: ( “ or are HP a bunch of idiots to stay away from?” )

I stand by all that I have said - this may not be the printer for you. If you exhibit this level of frustration evident in your original post here on this thread I started, discussing the HP Z9+, I seriously question the ability required to deal with the quirks of these finicky printers.

Apologies if I have offended you - I’m really trying to help you, given my level of experience with these printers. When I say good luck, I mean it, fully.

Mark

[glyph]

As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.

[D White]

You have misunderstood my tone Doctor White. I think I have not misunderstood yours, however: ( “ or are HP a bunch of idiots to stay away from?” )

I stand by all that I have said - this may not be the printer for you. If you exhibit this level of frustration evident in your original post here on this thread I started, discussing the HP Z9+, I seriously question the ability required to deal with the quirks of these finicky printers.

Apologies if I have offended you - I’m really trying to help you, given my level of experience with these printers. When I say good luck, I mean it, fully.

Mark

I accept that I misunderstood your tone.

I still hold out that if you are in a position to pass on any useful contacts, given your apparent closer association to HP, I would be appreciative.

I think anyone would have frustrations with what I have so far experienced with HP sales. But my capacity to deal with complex issues is much greater than your suggestion, without which I would not have  obtaining my degree and practicing for 28 years before an early retirement, to then pursue my love of photography full time. I have owned 4 Epson large format printers before my current Canon Pro-2000 / Imageprint combo, and am reasonably experienced with the challenges of printing. I can guarantee that the complexity of printing is not on the same level as that of surgery.
 

[Mark Lindquist]

I accept that I misunderstood your tone.

I still hold out that if you are in a position to pass on any useful contacts, given your apparent closer association to HP, I would be appreciative.

I think anyone would have frustrations with what I have so far experienced with HP sales. But my capacity to deal with complex issues is much greater than your suggestion, without which I would not have  obtaining my degree and practicing for 28 years before an early retirement, to then pursue my love of photography full time. I have owned 4 Epson large format printers before my current Canon Pro-2000 / Imageprint combo, and am reasonably experienced with the challenges of printing. I can guarantee that the complexity of printing is not on the same level as that of surgery.

My contacts are at a much higher level than sales, and beneath that are Tier 1-Tier 3 engineers. I don’t have sales contacts. What are your specific questions beyond what a print head set costs?  Allow me to refer to a long time respected forum member, Neil Snape, who has done very thorough review of the Z9+ on his Website: Neil Snape Z9+ Review

In addition, you could try calling tech support and tell them you want to buy a printer but you haven’t been able to find anyone who can answer your questions.

If you ask your specific questions, perhaps by starting a new thread, it is likely you might get answers to your questions. As for the cost of printheads, this information can be found by googling the topic.

Best wishes,

Mark

[Mark Lindquist]

As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.

+1 Ron 

[stevenfr]

You could try this fellow on Vancouver Island. He helped me out when I owned a z3100.

David (Dave) G. Trufen I Hewlett Packard Certified Professional I Office 250.749.7296 I Cell 250.732.3663
www.printerworld.com I HP DesignJet Solutions  I HP LaserJet Solutions I Toll Free 877.747.7468
 
 
 

[D White]

You could try this fellow on Vancouver Island. He helped me out when I owned a z3100.

David (Dave) G. Trufen I Hewlett Packard Certified Professional I Office 250.749.7296 I Cell 250.732.3663
www.printerworld.com I HP DesignJet Solutions  I HP LaserJet Solutions I Toll Free 877.747.7468

Thanks, I will look into the contact tomorrow. I gather you know I am on Vancouver Island as well?

Your image gallery resonates with me, very nice collection. Out of interest, do you still print your own work, and if so, your current printer choice?

Regards

[stevenfr]

Thank you for the feedback on my work. Yes I still print my work. I believe its important to control the print quality. Lately we have sold some extremely large prints, which we had to use a outside printer.

I currently use the Canon IPf8400. I am not sure what I will do if it fails. The new Canon’s inkset has poorer ink longevity compared to my printer. Epson’s have a tendency to clog.  My testing of this new z resulted in poorer gamut compared to my printer. HP used my paper Hahnemuhle Photo rag Baryta my images from a Phase One XF IQ3 100 camera and they had my prints for reference. HP had four different labs try and match my prints. The last lab being the one in Barcelona. I still have the test prints. Maybe if they sent me the printer I could match my prints.

I didn’t know you lived on Vancouver Island. We live on Salt Spring Island.

[deanwork]

As someone who has also used the three three major brands for over 12 years I totally agree with this comment. I could have written it myself. Mark L. has done more by himself to explore and explain the functionality and maintenance of the Z series that the whole of corporate staff combined in my experience. Look at his website, then look at Hps  website and that becomes pretty obvious.

John

As an owner of Z3100 and 3200 printers for 12 years, I can honestly say that I think HP sales and especially marketing is absolutely bottom of the barrel. The company has many strengths, however, and their engineering and manufacturing (at least regarding Designjets) are right at the top of my list. It would be nice if the suits held their own with the engineers, but I've resigned myself to the realization that their corporate culture and decades of near rudderless decision making will not likely change in my lifetime. It's obviously a tradeoff, but once you are less dependent on the weak bits, it is a mostly positive experience. I still have some questions that I'd like to see resolved, and a perfectly fine Z3200 that will last me for a number of years still (knock on wood), but I'm likely to stay with the HP platform for printing based on the balance of positives and negatives. Best of luck with your quest.

[Mark Lindquist]

As someone who has also used the three three major brands for over 12 years I totally agree with this comment. I could have written it myself. Mark L. has done more by himself to explore and explain the functionality and maintenance of the Z series that the whole of corporate staff combined in my experience. Look at his website, then look at Hps  website and that becomes pretty obvious.

John

Between Ernst Dinkla, John Dean, myself and several others here on LuLa, (too numerous to name), we’ve managed to provide a cobbled semblance of informal support for the Z series printers. This combined expertise, especially with Mark McCormick, Geraldo Garcia, and others, who have pushed the envelope in terms of custom profiles has made the Z all that it can be, a force to be reckoned with. There is no question that fine art printing demographics have changed, and HP corporate has other more lucrative areas to concentrate on, namely 3D, Dye Sub, and Latex printers that are a completely different market segment. I’m hopeful, along with everyone else here on LuLa that HP will continue to make these wonderful printers and inks well into the future even though HP marches to the beat of a different drummer. It’s a privilege to give back some of what I’ve gotten here on LuLa, and although I don’t have time to keep up with it all, particularly the emails, that I get regularly, hopefully my website Z3200.com will help to keep many of us afloat as the Z3100 and Z3200 printers begin to fade into printer oblivion. What many don’t take into consideration, is that these printers can act as stand - alone automated spectrophotometers, which, when coupled with the hobbled Z9+ printers makes for a formidable tool in the hands of dedicated fine art printer professionals. Kudos to Geraldo Garcia for opening our eyes to the Z’s immense capabilities. HP printers are not for everyone particularly as they can be fiddley and sometimes aggravatingly frustrating. But all printers are difficult in their own ways. The z9+ Is in its first iteration. Let’s hope that HP continues to advance this system similarly as they have the Z3100 and Z3200 printers. Thanks to the unnamed who also support this printer here: Kers, John Nollendorf, LPS computers, and many many others who continue to keep the Z Series a viable option. Enjoy it while it lasts folks. The end is near. Thanks HP for making what to thousands of independent studio photographers and fine art printers has been “the little engine that could.” Long may they run.\\\\\\\\\\\

Thanks -

Mark

[enduser]

"The end is near?" aaaaggghhhh!!!

[D White]

I wanted to comment on this forum how helpful Mark Lindquist was in spending considerable time with me to outline the benefits and frustrations of running a Z9 to assist in my journey to considering one for myself. He provided an in depth look well beyond that of the glossy brochures and sales contacts. He is a great resource and I felt bad in taking up so much of his time. Thanks again!

And also thanks to the contacts that Steven Friedman provided me to make contact with an actual HP sales representative. The HP sales that deal with these printers seem to have secret emails and phone numbers that are only shared on the dark web. Once you get an actual sales representative they seem quite helpful and realistic.

[deanwork]

How much longer should we expect to be able buy Z3200 inks and heads? There are a lot of these printers out there around the world. I would love to have 2 , 3 or 4 more years if possible.

I wanted to comment on this forum how helpful Mark Lindquist was in spending considerable time with me to outline the benefits and frustrations of running a Z9 to assist in my journey to considering one for myself. He provided an in depth look well beyond that of the glossy brochures and sales contacts. He is a great resource and I felt bad in taking up so much of his time. Thanks again!

And also thanks to the contacts that Steven Friedman provided me to make contact with an actual HP sales representative. The HP sales that deal with these printers seem to have secret emails and phone numbers that are only shared on the dark web. Once you get an actual sales representative they seem quite helpful and realistic.

[mfrohman]

I was under the impression that it was atleast 5 years from 'end of life' which, If I remember correctly was announced last summerish. However, the price of the ink has gone up about 30% over the last year so the end of life guarantee doesn't include any price guarantees.

[vjbelle]

Thank you for the feedback on my work. Yes I still print my work. I believe its important to control the print quality. Lately we have sold some extremely large prints, which we had to use a outside printer.

I currently use the Canon IPf8400. I am not sure what I will do if it fails. The new Canon’s inkset has poorer ink longevity compared to my printer. Epson’s have a tendency to clog.  My testing of this new z resulted in poorer gamut compared to my printer. HP used my paper Hahnemuhle Photo rag Baryta my images from a Phase One XF IQ3 100 camera and they had my prints for reference. HP had four different labs try and match my prints. The last lab being the one in Barcelona. I still have the test prints. Maybe if they sent me the printer I could match my prints.

I didn’t know you lived on Vancouver Island. We live on Salt Spring Island.

I also have an 8400 which I am very fond of.  I have replaced both print heads due to limited printer usage for very little cost. After re-calibration I am spot on monitor to print. 

I agree with respect to lesser life span of Canon prints vs. Epson but in the real scheme of things so what...  More than likely a potential buyer of prints won't care much 40 years from now and in the next decade print technology will greatly exceed what we are seeing now.  It's easy to reprint an image on a new printer......

I toy with an Epson p9000 but have been burnt with Epson clogged heads in the past with printers I just threw away. 

Decisions.......

Victor B

[Mark Lindquist]

More than likely a potential buyer of prints won't care much 40 years from now and in the next decade print technology will greatly exceed what we are seeing now.  It's easy to reprint an image on a new printer......
Victor B

Whoever projects print longevity for 40 years has a completely different valuation of their prints than those who seek to have their prints last for centuries. It is not necessarily easy to just print out an image printed on one printer with a custom profile on specific paper and have it simply "reprint" on another brand of printer with different inks and a different profile. Refer to stevenfr's post where he states that hp themselves could not get his prints right after 4 tries even with reference prints to compare. While HP is in the printer manufacture business, it does not necessarily make employees master printers. We have discussed this issue in the past with stevenfr on this forum and stated that firstly, a quality custom profile would have to be made for the Z9+, then he would have to arduously soft proof his images using that profile before it could be correctly printed. This is the sad but true issue with all printers, going from one printer with one inkset to another with an altogether other inkset (and technology). Just having the printer and playing with it without initial testing and custom profiling won't get it. It is unfair to blame a printer for incorrect process in printing.

Best,

Mark

[stevenfr]

Mark

I was told HP used their calibration process to create a custom profile. Granted it has some shortcomings as you have explained. I would think the Barcelona people should of come closer than they did. Shopping for a new printer it was important to me that I am able to replicate my prints as they are sold in numerous galleries. If I was still using the z3100 or z3200 I may have no concerns going to the z9.

As I mentioned in my post if I owned the z9 I might be able to match my prints from the Canon. My concern is the gamut going from the Canon to the HP. The HP has less ink carts, so maybe this is the reason for the gamut differences. I have owned the z3100 and really enjoyed the printer, and I have enjoyed using the Canon. There are features in both printers that I like. 



Steven

[Mark Lindquist]

Mark

I was told HP used their calibration process to create a custom profile. Granted it has some shortcomings as you have explained. I would think the Barcelona people should of come closer than they did. Shopping for a new printer it was important to me that I am able to replicate my prints as they are sold in numerous galleries. If I was still using the z3100 or z3200 I may have no concerns going to the z9.

As I mentioned in my post if I owned the z9 I might be able to match my prints from the Canon. My concern is the gamut going from the Canon to the HP. The HP has less ink carts, so maybe this is the reason for the gamut differences. I have owned the z3100 and really enjoyed the printer, and I have enjoyed using the Canon. There are features in both printers that I like. 

Steven

Hi Steven,

It is an interesting philosophy, the issue of serialization or indexicality, of prints that are all the same. I contend that in order to do that, really we should predetermine how many prints are in a numbered set, then print them and store them. This way there is no deviation from print to print. But this is impractical for most of us. It is for me, and I don’t know anyone who works this way other than with small closed editions. We all have our priorities, be it exact, faithful reproduction of color, or the confused issue of print/paper combination longevity. Then there is the question of ink fading, which begs the question at the outset. For these reasons, I believe we all pick our own poison when it comes to buying into a print system. Sometimes one’s priorities override and force our decisions. All the printers made these days are superb and each have their advantages and disadvantages. I believe the Z9+ is capable of reproducing your images exactly, but at what cost? If simply buying another Canon meets your expectations, and it will allow you to continue to match the prints from the past, it seems to be a foregone conclusion you are locked into a specific print system. But when the inks change, you ultimately face the same dilemma. Same with papers. These days we all face paper problems when our favorite papers are no longer made.
I hope your Canon printer meets your expectations well into the future. If you are wedded to your images from the past, I hope that specific printer and inkset and papers will be available for a long time.

Best,

Mark

[chromebright]

Hello all:  I have been happily (almost) using my 24" Z9+ now for about 10 months.  One major problem has been my inability to make custom profiles. At the last step I receive an error message without any further details. I was told by several HP experts, including one Tier 1 engineer from Ottawa, Canada that the HP firmware was in all likelihood, not compatible with my operating system (Mac OS Catalina).  Obviously I have not upgraded to OS Big Sur because I don't want to continually be behind the firmware updates.  Does anyone have any more information about this issue?  Thanks.

Ken Susman
Mendocino, CA

[SergeyT]

Firmware resides and run in the printer. It can not be incompatible with an OS of an external computer because it does not have any direct dependency on that OS.