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Author Topic: Incursions into Syria  (Read 26503 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2019, 10:41:54 am »

Ok, but I can only keep asking, why does the US have all those military bases around the world then?  And why send extra troops to Saudi Arabia now if you're trying to pull back from being the world's police. Are the princes feeling nervous about something?

To a lot of the world this just looks like another example of the US pretending to be a backer of democracy while backing some of the worst regimes, been going on for decades. I'm not saying you don't have to make deals with the devil for reasons of "realpolitic", but geez the track record ain't that good. Much of what has been said about Middle East politics being a cesspool rings true, but why make it worse?

The Kurds did a lot of proxy fighting against ISIS, imagine how they feel now.
Robert, The Kurds did not do proxy fighting.  It wasn't for us.   ISIS was killing Kurds and trying to take their territory.  The Kurds were fighting for their land and people.  Sure, we both had common interests in killing ISIS. But they weren't doing us any favors.   Anymore than the USSR was our friend against the Nazis.  That was Trump's point about Normandy.  If they fought in Normandy not defending their own territory but helping us nonetheless, that would have been proxy fighting.  And we would have owed them more favors. 


Of course, the anti Trump media distorts the whole thing fooling everyone about what's going on.  Now don't get me wrong.  I think it would be nice for the Kurds to have a homeland.  And as common soldiers on the battlefield I think we should try to help them.  But that homeland currently is territory that occupies parts of Turkey, Syria and Iraq.  Are we supposed to get into nation building again and go against these three countries?    Hasn't nation building been discredited by you and others.  Now suddenly, because Trump wants to get us out of there and stop being involved in the Middle East adventures, suddenly he's a bad guy.  It seems the whole thing is about presidential politics than the Kurds. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:46:36 am by Alan Klein »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2019, 11:43:14 am »

Ok, but I can only keep asking, why does the US have all those military bases around the world then?  And why send extra troops to Saudi Arabia now if you're trying to pull back from being the world's police. Are the princes feeling nervous about something?

To a lot of the world this just looks like another example of the US pretending to be a backer of democracy while backing some of the worst regimes, been going on for decades. I'm not saying you don't have to make deals with the devil for reasons of "realpolitic", but geez the track record ain't that good. Much of what has been said about Middle East politics being a cesspool rings true, but why make it worse?

The Kurds did a lot of proxy fighting against ISIS, imagine how they feel now.

Robert - how naive can you be?  The US are only in the ME in order to bring about an appreciation of poetry and spring flowers. Nothing to do with oil, oh no!!  Next thing you'll be saying that they had those troops in Germany to act as an advance defence against the Russians and not just to teach the Germans about the wonders of Budweiser !!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2019, 12:11:00 pm »

Robert - how naive can you be?  The US are only in the ME in order to bring about an appreciation of poetry and spring flowers. Nothing to do with oil, oh no!!  Next thing you'll be saying that they had those troops in Germany to act as an advance defence against the Russians and not just to teach the Germans about the wonders of Budweiser !!
The United States is not are.  We've been a united country for a long time.

faberryman

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2019, 12:36:57 pm »

Now suddenly, because Trump wants to get us out of there and stop being involved in the Middle East adventures, suddenly he's a bad guy.
He is not interested in getting out of the Middle East. Three days after he abandoned the Kurds, he sent 2000 troops to Saudi Arabia.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2019, 02:15:17 pm »

He's not interested in nation building.

kers

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2019, 03:15:12 pm »

He's not interested in nation building.

Apart from North Korea, no...

He is  only interested in image building
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2019, 04:28:45 pm »

Apart from North Korea, no...

He is  only interested in image building

That makes absolutely no sense.

kers

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2019, 04:59:59 am »

indeed
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faberryman

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2019, 09:28:38 am »

Less than a week after greenlighting a Turkish invasion, the US is now imposing sanctions on Turkey for doing so. Schizophrenic.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 11:12:03 am by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2019, 11:31:02 am »

Less than a week after greenlighting a Turkish invasion, the US is now imposing sanctions on Turkey for doing so. Schizophrenic.
I agree.  Trump;s instincts were right to begin with. We can;t nation build for the Kurds.  So now, mainly because of Republican objections and criticism, he got nervous and is backing off.  This makes it seem that his original decision didn't make sense.  Sanctions are not going to scare Erdogan and just create a wall between the two of us and drive hi more into Russian hands.   Trump should just keep his mouth shut and do nothing and let these characters work it out on their own.  The would, you know.  The Kurds have already made a deal with Assad for protection.  Other deals will follow.  Turkey just wants to keep the Kurds from invading Turkey and terrorizes their people.  If Assad can do that, Erdogan will be happy.  It's not our fight. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2019, 11:33:24 am »

By imposing sanctions, we're getting back into the fight where we don't belong.  Even republicans are calling for sanctions.  They're nuts.  Turkey isn't our enemy.   This won't end well.

jeremyrh

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2019, 11:51:01 am »

By imposing sanctions, we're getting back into the fight where we don't belong.  Even republicans are calling for sanctions.  They're nuts.  Turkey isn't our enemy.   This won't end well.

Well it's ended with the US having zero influence anywhere outside Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Of course I know that this was Trump's strategy all along, and an inspired piece of strategy, but most of us on Planet Earth see it as a foolish blunder.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2019, 12:07:39 pm »

Well it's ended with the US having zero influence anywhere outside Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Of course I know that this was Trump's strategy all along, and an inspired piece of strategy, but most of us on Planet Earth see it as a foolish blunder.
I think you;'re getting ahead of yourself.  If things quiet down in a couple of weeks with Turkey occupying the buffer zone, we'll be out of there, Trump's decision in the first place. Leave Syria for the Syrians, Kurds, and Russians to work things out and let them deal with any ISIS or other terrorists that remain. Trump will point to that fact that no Americans are getting killed there.  That's something most regular Americans want despite the Republicans neocon's angst about it.  Americans don't want to see their kids killed for these people any longer.  It's not that complicated. 

faberryman

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2019, 12:14:09 pm »

Last time I checked, we still had 5000 soldiers in Iraq, so we are not exactly "out of there".
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2019, 01:15:58 pm »

Last time I checked, we still had 5000 soldiers in Iraq, so we are not exactly "out of there".
they ought to go too.  Now that ISIS is basically gone,  there's no reason for them to be there. The Turks Russians Syrians Iraqis and Kurds could clean up any remnants.  We have no issues with those five countries.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2019, 01:41:36 pm »

I agree.  Trump;s instincts were right to begin with. We can;t nation build for the Kurds. 

You've lost me. Who said that the US should help the Kurds nation-build? Is this just an assertion on your part?
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Robert

faberryman

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2019, 01:43:05 pm »

You've lost me. Who said that the US should help the Kurds nation-build? Is this just an assertion on your part?
It's a strawman to make Trump look intelligent. Nice try, but the effort is doomed to failure.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 03:19:38 pm by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2019, 01:45:11 pm »

It's a strawman to make Trump look intelligent.

That's a tall order.
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Robert

LesPalenik

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2019, 01:55:52 pm »

they ought to go too.  Now that ISIS is basically gone,  there's no reason for them to be there. The Turks Russians Syrians Iraqis and Kurds could clean up any remnants.  We have no issues with those five countries.

The ISIS is gone basically the same way as Taliban.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2019, 01:57:29 pm »

they ought to go too.  Now that ISIS is basically gone,  there's no reason for them to be there. The Turks Russians Syrians Iraqis and Kurds could clean up any remnants.  We have no issues with those five countries.

"Peace in our time"
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