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Author Topic: A9II - the end of modernity?  (Read 1611 times)

BernardLanguillier

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A9II - the end of modernity?
« on: October 03, 2019, 05:26:09 pm »

The newly announced a9II follows the a7IV in being a modest update compared to the 2-3 years old a9. The sensor is pretty much the same (no global shutter, no 36mp, no multi-layer sensor,...), the speed is pretty much the same, the UI is pretty much the same,...

Certainly useful tweaks for actual photographers, but an evolution more than a revolution. The AF will certainly have progressed but Sony themselves are pretty low key about that.

I had the cash ready for the rumored game changer but probably wonít be spending it.

To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market. It remains a great day for Sony photographers but it sucks big time for Sony fan boys.

If anything, I believe that there must be some extremely relieved people at Canon HQ.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:55:53 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Rob C

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 05:41:25 pm »

Look upon it as a relief from the nocturnal terrors of GAS.

:-)

faberryman

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 06:07:43 pm »

To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market.
The myth only exists in your mind. All the new cameras that have been introduced over the past few years have all been incremental upgrades.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 06:53:33 pm »

The myth only exists in your mind. All the new cameras that have been introduced over the past few years have all been incremental upgrades.

I don't think that yours is a faithful description of what Sony has been achieving. And it certainly isn't the way hordes of Sony fanboy have been describing their feeling all over internet these past years... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

faberryman

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 07:05:57 pm »

I don't think that yours is a faithful description of what Sony has been achieving. And it certainly isn't the way hordes of Sony fanboy have been describing their feeling all over internet these past years... ;
I don't think relying on what Sony fanboys say is the way to come to objective conclusions.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 11:55:21 pm »

I don't think relying on what Sony fanboys say is the way to come to objective conclusions.

Indeed!

Cheers

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2019, 01:24:14 am »

Certainly not a huge upgrade, thank goodness for my cash flow, but some things have been addressed that people have been asking for.

Mechanical shutter up from 5 frames a second to 10 frames for those occasions when shooting high frames rates at indoor arenas that have led display panels causing striping. Useful for some Iím sure. Certain lay not for me.

Faster transfer rates out of camera also good for people shooting to tight deadlines such as press people.

Two UHC SD card slots and the numbering order changed from having slot one at the bottom which really seemed to annoy people out of all proportion IMO.  Still the only Sony with two card slots which seems weird in 2019. No SQD, I think that would take a total change of body design to accommodate the two cards, unless they opted to take a step backwards and go with one slot.

Same body changes as the A7R4, seem be be listening to their customers, better weather sealing and more solid feeling buttons.

Overall I like but wonít upgrade. The A9 is my favorite camera currently but the A7R3 is my most useful commercially. I might upgrade that to the 4. I am hell busy commercially at the moment but sadly my personal work is in a very unsatisfactory place. I donít think upgrading to the A92 will fix that. If I canít do it on the current A9 I am sure I canít do it.

As to the fanboys, who gives a dam what they do or donít say. All manufacturers have them. People who are nervous of their purchase decisions on some deep level and think that if only they can convince everyone they are correct then that will prove to themselves that they are.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2019, 01:28:28 am »

I wonder if they have moved to USB c for tethering? My A9 is micro usb and the A7R is USBC. Much prefer the latter. I would assume so.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2019, 03:45:57 am »

As common with many brands, a new version of a pro camera, especially one for action/sports, rarely heralds major changes.

You don't want to risk it with pro cameras, hence more evolution than revolution - pros are not very keen on major changes on cameras they are used to. What the 9II brings to the floor is more in terms of speed and processor capability. Plus improved subject tracking. Plus larger grip. EV button with a lock.

Such small changes add up to being very useful and make for a more responsive camera.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 04:36:58 am »

As common with many brands, a new version of a pro camera, especially one for action/sports, rarely heralds major changes.

You don't want to risk it with pro cameras, hence more evolution than revolution - pros are not very keen on major changes on cameras they are used to. What the 9II brings to the floor is more in terms of speed and processor capability. Plus improved subject tracking. Plus larger grip. EV button with a lock.

Such small changes add up to being very useful and make for a more responsive camera.

Indeed.

I am totally aligned with what Sony has done, it is very reasonable and I am sure that actual photographers will find this to be a valuable update.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 04:46:59 am »

Indeed.

I am totally aligned with what Sony has done, it is very reasonable and I am sure that actual photographers will find this to be a valuable update.

Cheers,
Bernard

I believe you are quite correct. For me I get the feeling slowing down and finessing stuff would be of more benefit that the constant pursuit of innovation for innovations sake. It has been quite tiring. Not to mention expensive.
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kers

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 05:26:45 am »

Apparently this is the olympic camera so it all depends on the quality of AF (tracking) and ease of communication to the outside world.
If that is done right it is a winner.
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mcbroomf

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 06:05:29 am »

The newly announced a9II follows the a7IV in being a modest update compared to the 2-3 years old a9. The sensor is pretty much the same (no global shutter, no 36mp, no multi-layer sensor,...), the speed is pretty much the same, the UI is pretty much the same,...

Certainly useful tweaks for actual photographers, but an evolution more than a revolution. The AF will certainly have progressed but Sony themselves are pretty low key about that.

I had the cash ready for the rumored game changer but probably wonít be spending it.

To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market. It remains a great day for Sony photographers but it sucks big time for Sony fan boys.

If anything, I believe that there must be some extremely relieved people at Canon HQ.

Cheers,
Bernard

There's a pretty good article on DPR about the A9II and it has this comment;

"The new a9 II is, in effect, Sony's 2020 Olympic camera. Announced fairly quietly today, without the usual Sony fanfare, the a9 II is a camera that the average DPReview reader will probably neither need nor buy. And Sony knows it. The upgrades compared to the a9 (which will continue in the lineup) are, for the most part, targeted at a small segment of the professional photographer user base. And even more specifically, towards photographers that shoot major sporting events."
https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/5179774637/the-a9-ii-is-a-camera-sony-had-to-make-but-they-didn-t-make-it-for-you

I think this is right on the money, so I don't think that your comment "To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market." rings true (at least for this camera).  To my mind it just means the marketing folks made a clear definition of what was needed for this camera and it didn't include throwing all of the possible tech into it.

Mike
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 08:41:03 am »

There's a pretty good article on DPR about the A9II and it has this comment;

"The new a9 II is, in effect, Sony's 2020 Olympic camera. Announced fairly quietly today, without the usual Sony fanfare, the a9 II is a camera that the average DPReview reader will probably neither need nor buy. And Sony knows it. The upgrades compared to the a9 (which will continue in the lineup) are, for the most part, targeted at a small segment of the professional photographer user base. And even more specifically, towards photographers that shoot major sporting events."
https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/5179774637/the-a9-ii-is-a-camera-sony-had-to-make-but-they-didn-t-make-it-for-you

I think this is right on the money, so I don't think that your comment "To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market." rings true (at least for this camera).  To my mind it just means the marketing folks made a clear definition of what was needed for this camera and it didn't include throwing all of the possible tech into it.

Yes and no... the target crowd would have hated 36mp, but they would have loved a global shutter, better video specs, faster memory cards (meaning shorter download times), a better EVF with faster refresh rate and higher resolution, a vlog compatible screen mechanism, the ability to shoot at 30 images/s over an infinite buffer in raw+jpg... and those believing that Sony is that mythical company were 100% sure that they would be getting all that with the a9II.

Instead we got a competent upgrade akin to what Canon or Nikon deliver with their pro camera updates.

That's what I meant.

Cheers,
Bernard
 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 08:46:38 am by BernardLanguillier »
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mcbroomf

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 10:42:55 am »

Haha, yes I get that (what people say). 

I also want a 16oz Zeiss lens that is 14mm FL with F1.0 aperture and has no coma to the corners for my astro shots.  I'm 100.1% sure Zeiss can make it but they don't (or maybe they just need to discover the mythical materials that will allow them to do this)  No matter, I'll give them time ...   ;D
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faberryman

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2019, 10:53:44 am »

... and those believing that Sony is that mythical company were 100% sure that they would be getting all that with the a9II. Instead we got a competent upgrade akin to what Canon or Nikon deliver with their pro camera updates.
So you are railing against Sony fanboys and not Sony. Low hanging fruit.

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2019, 11:06:40 am »

I think Sony has done remarkably well and has really driven innovation. Iím pleased their offering are becoming more mature and there upgrades a little more pedestrian can we say.

They are a long way from perfect for sure. If they have one thing I really value it is there ability to take and implement feedback. No itís not instant but we asked for dual card slots and got it, asked for weather sealing and that is happening, asked for a deeper grip and that done, got better battery life, even little things like change the colour of the AF square and we got that as a firmware upgrade. Itís not always as fast as we would like but generally it happens.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2019, 05:28:59 pm »

So you are railing against Sony fanboys and not Sony. Low hanging fruit.

Yes, I have nothing but respect and admiration for Sony.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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A9II - the end of modernity? or of narrow sensor-spec measures of progress?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2019, 08:31:43 pm »

The A9 Mk II is certainly a surprise to the many who expect and crave improvements concentrated on counting pixels, FPS, stops of DR, usable ISO speed, and other mostly sensor-related metrics. On the other hand, it answers a complaint that many have voiced: improving connectivity for rapid sharing ó just not on social media, but on the traditional professional media to whose photographers the enhancements are aimed. I expect and hope for expect a shift towards improvements "before and after the sensor", but also at a gentler pace that will leave me content with what I have for a good number of years.
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Alan Klein

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Re: A9II - the end of modernity?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2019, 10:58:59 pm »

Which Sony is best for landscapes?  Best lenses?
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