Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on October 03, 2019, 05:26:09 pm
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The newly announced a9II follows the a7IV in being a modest update compared to the 2-3 years old a9. The sensor is pretty much the same (no global shutter, no 36mp, no multi-layer sensor,...), the speed is pretty much the same, the UI is pretty much the same,...
Certainly useful tweaks for actual photographers, but an evolution more than a revolution. The AF will certainly have progressed but Sony themselves are pretty low key about that.
I had the cash ready for the rumored game changer but probably won’t be spending it.
To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market. It remains a great day for Sony photographers but it sucks big time for Sony fan boys.
If anything, I believe that there must be some extremely relieved people at Canon HQ.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Look upon it as a relief from the nocturnal terrors of GAS.
:-)
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To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market.
The myth only exists in your mind. All the new cameras that have been introduced over the past few years have all been incremental upgrades.
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The myth only exists in your mind. All the new cameras that have been introduced over the past few years have all been incremental upgrades.
I don't think that yours is a faithful description of what Sony has been achieving. And it certainly isn't the way hordes of Sony fanboy have been describing their feeling all over internet these past years... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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I don't think that yours is a faithful description of what Sony has been achieving. And it certainly isn't the way hordes of Sony fanboy have been describing their feeling all over internet these past years... ;
I don't think relying on what Sony fanboys say is the way to come to objective conclusions.
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I don't think relying on what Sony fanboys say is the way to come to objective conclusions.
Indeed!
Cheers
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Certainly not a huge upgrade, thank goodness for my cash flow, but some things have been addressed that people have been asking for.
Mechanical shutter up from 5 frames a second to 10 frames for those occasions when shooting high frames rates at indoor arenas that have led display panels causing striping. Useful for some I’m sure. Certain lay not for me.
Faster transfer rates out of camera also good for people shooting to tight deadlines such as press people.
Two UHC SD card slots and the numbering order changed from having slot one at the bottom which really seemed to annoy people out of all proportion IMO. Still the only Sony with two card slots which seems weird in 2019. No SQD, I think that would take a total change of body design to accommodate the two cards, unless they opted to take a step backwards and go with one slot.
Same body changes as the A7R4, seem be be listening to their customers, better weather sealing and more solid feeling buttons.
Overall I like but won’t upgrade. The A9 is my favorite camera currently but the A7R3 is my most useful commercially. I might upgrade that to the 4. I am hell busy commercially at the moment but sadly my personal work is in a very unsatisfactory place. I don’t think upgrading to the A92 will fix that. If I can’t do it on the current A9 I am sure I can’t do it.
As to the fanboys, who gives a dam what they do or don’t say. All manufacturers have them. People who are nervous of their purchase decisions on some deep level and think that if only they can convince everyone they are correct then that will prove to themselves that they are.
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I wonder if they have moved to USB c for tethering? My A9 is micro usb and the A7R is USBC. Much prefer the latter. I would assume so.
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As common with many brands, a new version of a pro camera, especially one for action/sports, rarely heralds major changes.
You don't want to risk it with pro cameras, hence more evolution than revolution - pros are not very keen on major changes on cameras they are used to. What the 9II brings to the floor is more in terms of speed and processor capability. Plus improved subject tracking. Plus larger grip. EV button with a lock.
Such small changes add up to being very useful and make for a more responsive camera.
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As common with many brands, a new version of a pro camera, especially one for action/sports, rarely heralds major changes.
You don't want to risk it with pro cameras, hence more evolution than revolution - pros are not very keen on major changes on cameras they are used to. What the 9II brings to the floor is more in terms of speed and processor capability. Plus improved subject tracking. Plus larger grip. EV button with a lock.
Such small changes add up to being very useful and make for a more responsive camera.
Indeed.
I am totally aligned with what Sony has done, it is very reasonable and I am sure that actual photographers will find this to be a valuable update.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Indeed.
I am totally aligned with what Sony has done, it is very reasonable and I am sure that actual photographers will find this to be a valuable update.
Cheers,
Bernard
I believe you are quite correct. For me I get the feeling slowing down and finessing stuff would be of more benefit that the constant pursuit of innovation for innovations sake. It has been quite tiring. Not to mention expensive.
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Apparently this is the olympic camera so it all depends on the quality of AF (tracking) and ease of communication to the outside world.
If that is done right it is a winner.
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The newly announced a9II follows the a7IV in being a modest update compared to the 2-3 years old a9. The sensor is pretty much the same (no global shutter, no 36mp, no multi-layer sensor,...), the speed is pretty much the same, the UI is pretty much the same,...
Certainly useful tweaks for actual photographers, but an evolution more than a revolution. The AF will certainly have progressed but Sony themselves are pretty low key about that.
I had the cash ready for the rumored game changer but probably won’t be spending it.
To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market. It remains a great day for Sony photographers but it sucks big time for Sony fan boys.
If anything, I believe that there must be some extremely relieved people at Canon HQ.
Cheers,
Bernard
There's a pretty good article on DPR about the A9II and it has this comment;
"The new a9 II is, in effect, Sony's 2020 Olympic camera. Announced fairly quietly today, without the usual Sony fanfare, the a9 II is a camera that the average DPReview reader will probably neither need nor buy. And Sony knows it. The upgrades compared to the a9 (which will continue in the lineup) are, for the most part, targeted at a small segment of the professional photographer user base. And even more specifically, towards photographers that shoot major sporting events."
https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/5179774637/the-a9-ii-is-a-camera-sony-had-to-make-but-they-didn-t-make-it-for-you
I think this is right on the money, so I don't think that your comment "To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market." rings true (at least for this camera). To my mind it just means the marketing folks made a clear definition of what was needed for this camera and it didn't include throwing all of the possible tech into it.
Mike
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There's a pretty good article on DPR about the A9II and it has this comment;
"The new a9 II is, in effect, Sony's 2020 Olympic camera. Announced fairly quietly today, without the usual Sony fanfare, the a9 II is a camera that the average DPReview reader will probably neither need nor buy. And Sony knows it. The upgrades compared to the a9 (which will continue in the lineup) are, for the most part, targeted at a small segment of the professional photographer user base. And even more specifically, towards photographers that shoot major sporting events."
https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/5179774637/the-a9-ii-is-a-camera-sony-had-to-make-but-they-didn-t-make-it-for-you
I think this is right on the money, so I don't think that your comment "To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market." rings true (at least for this camera). To my mind it just means the marketing folks made a clear definition of what was needed for this camera and it didn't include throwing all of the possible tech into it.
Yes and no... the target crowd would have hated 36mp, but they would have loved a global shutter, better video specs, faster memory cards (meaning shorter download times), a better EVF with faster refresh rate and higher resolution, a vlog compatible screen mechanism, the ability to shoot at 30 images/s over an infinite buffer in raw+jpg... and those believing that Sony is that mythical company were 100% sure that they would be getting all that with the a9II.
Instead we got a competent upgrade akin to what Canon or Nikon deliver with their pro camera updates.
That's what I meant.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Haha, yes I get that (what people say).
I also want a 16oz Zeiss lens that is 14mm FL with F1.0 aperture and has no coma to the corners for my astro shots. I'm 100.1% sure Zeiss can make it but they don't (or maybe they just need to discover the mythical materials that will allow them to do this) No matter, I'll give them time ... ;D
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... and those believing that Sony is that mythical company were 100% sure that they would be getting all that with the a9II. Instead we got a competent upgrade akin to what Canon or Nikon deliver with their pro camera updates.
So you are railing against Sony fanboys and not Sony. Low hanging fruit.
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I think Sony has done remarkably well and has really driven innovation. I’m pleased their offering are becoming more mature and there upgrades a little more pedestrian can we say.
They are a long way from perfect for sure. If they have one thing I really value it is there ability to take and implement feedback. No it’s not instant but we asked for dual card slots and got it, asked for weather sealing and that is happening, asked for a deeper grip and that done, got better battery life, even little things like change the colour of the AF square and we got that as a firmware upgrade. It’s not always as fast as we would like but generally it happens.
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So you are railing against Sony fanboys and not Sony. Low hanging fruit.
Yes, I have nothing but respect and admiration for Sony.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The A9 Mk II is certainly a surprise to the many who expect and crave improvements concentrated on counting pixels, FPS, stops of DR, usable ISO speed, and other mostly sensor-related metrics. On the other hand, it answers a complaint that many have voiced: improving connectivity for rapid sharing — just not on social media, but on the traditional professional media to whose photographers the enhancements are aimed. I expect and hope for expect a shift towards improvements "before and after the sensor", but also at a gentler pace that will leave me content with what I have for a good number of years.
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
The a7rIV.
24mm f1.4 probably?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
A7R4. Lenses is harder to say. Depends on how you shoot I guess. I like 28mm, 50mm and about a 90mm for landscapes. Make the 90 a macro and you have lots of stuff to shoot. Bernard’s suggestion of a 24mm 1.4 is a good one. I tend to sacrifice large maximum apertures, which I tend not to use, for size so usually go for more modest maximum apertures. There really are loads of lenses available.
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By the look of it there is a demand for the rumored version of the camera.
I wonder if Sony ever considers an A9[add some letter here], the A9 mk2 version but with a 36MP sensor.
The technology is there and it's a missing piece in the lineup.
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By the look of it there is a demand for the rumored version of the camera.
I wonder if Sony ever considers an A9[add some letter here], the A9 mk2 version but with a 36MP sensor.
The technology is there and it's a missing piece in the lineup.
Are you sure the technology is there? I’m asking because the reports I have read say that the particular stacked sensor with onboard memory is not currently available at 36MP.
I’m also not sure that the people this camera is aimed at see 36MP as such a big deal. My feeling is at this end of the market the MP wars are pretty much irrelevant.
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A7R4. Lenses is harder to say. Depends on how you shoot I guess. I like 28mm, 50mm and about a 90mm for landscapes. Make the 90 a macro and you have lots of stuff to shoot. Bernard’s suggestion of a 24mm 1.4 is a good one. I tend to sacrifice large maximum apertures, which I tend not to use, for size so usually go for more modest maximum apertures. There really are loads of lenses available.
Indeed. I suggested the f1.4 version not because f1.4 is relevant for landscape but because it’s image quality is said to be the best among the Sony’s wides.
But I have only limited knowledge of Sony’s line up so there may be even better options.
I personally like 24mm but many obviously find this not to be wide enough.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The newly announced a9II follows the a7IV in being a modest update compared to the 2-3 years old a9. The sensor is pretty much the same (no global shutter, no 36mp, no multi-layer sensor,...), the speed is pretty much the same, the UI is pretty much the same,...
Certainly useful tweaks for actual photographers, but an evolution more than a revolution. The AF will certainly have progressed but Sony themselves are pretty low key about that.
I had the cash ready for the rumored game changer but probably won’t be spending it.
To me this marks the end of the romantic myth about the endless pace of progress Sony can deliver to the market. It remains a great day for Sony photographers but it sucks big time for Sony fan boys.
If anything, I believe that there must be some extremely relieved people at Canon HQ.
Cheers,
Bernard
The changes were definitely focused on the sports photographer. If one is not a sports photographer, this upgrade probably doesn't warrant the price...but the A9 is a great deal on the used market.
I don't see Sony advancing at its previous rate until CaNikon has something out that challenges the A9. Currently they just have rumours and their existing mirrorless system trails by a fair amount even Sony's previous generation of cameras.
With a decreasing market, I can see Sony waiting a bit until CaNikon does something and then we'll see Sony again release new advances.
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If I made a brutally honest assessment of my kit I would sell the A9 and the A7R3 and buy the A7r4. It allows high res when needed and when I shoot products will give me a good focal length increase at 26MP when engaging APSC. A perfect all round camera for my commercial work. I would throw in an APSC body for backup, they are cheap as chips.
Problem with that is I am so unreasonably attached to the A9. I love using it for my personal work. I don’t feel a need to buy the upgrade but I cant bring myself to sell off the one I have. Even if doing so makes commercial sense.
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So you are railing against Sony fanboys and not Sony. Low hanging fruit.
Yeh...and that's coming from the "Nikon can do no wrong" guy...or should I say fanboy.
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
A7R4...but the A7R2 is a great buy used. As far as lenses goes for landscape, the sky is the limit. You can basically use any lens out there for landscape photography.
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Yeh...and that's coming from the "Nikon can do no wrong" guy...or should I say fanboy.
I don’t remember writing that the Z9 would be able to teleport photographers to the moon though.
But that’s pretty much what a couple of Sony fans on this very forum were predicting for the a9II. ;)
As far as Nikon doing no wrong. I am very critical of their pace of delivery on the Z system, I think they should have fitted the Z6/7 with two memory slots, I think that firmware 2.01 should have been the level of AF performance to ship the camera with, I think that even with firmware 2.01 they are still behind the a7rIV in terms of eye AF, I think that their policy for software update in alignement with OS releases is really poor (recent iOS 13 update issues with Snapbridge is just incredible), I think that their mgt of stock is abysmal (how many great lenses remain unavailable for months after release),... this being far more critical than anything I have ever seen you write about Sony my friend.
The praise I have given to Nikon have always been confirmed to be accurate. From the DR of the D3X to the AF of the D850 and now the outstanding quality of Z glass.
And I have always praised Sony for their innovation and market shaking potential. I am just noting a clear slow down with the a9II, even understanding that this camera clearly targets sport shooters, which I have always known contrary to the same Sony fans who were describing it as an alrounder and therefore sure it would come with a 36mp sensor.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
Assuming prime lenses with low distortion and excellent performance into the edges/corners:
Wide angles: Batis 18, Batis 25, Loxia 21.
Short teles: Batis 85, Loxia 85, Voigtlander 65 macro, Voigltander 110 macro, Sony 90 macro.
Curiously, from my previous Sony experience, all the Sony and Zeiss 35mm lenses have some sort of shortcoming, compared to the above lenses, for landscapes. Even my favourite, the ZA 35 f1.4, has some field curvature.
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On another forum where the posters are mostly amateurs with a few wedding shooters, some A9 users amongst them, there was quite a bit of dismay when the A9II was announced.
I'm not in the market for that camera (I still have my A7 mk1) so I was just following it all with interest. I understood the disappointment as some clearly wanted to buy a new shiny cutting edge camera but after reading a few blogs and comments from the usual on line suspects I've come to believe that for the small market segment this camera is aimed at the little improvements probably do add up to a significant upgrade and by that I mean significant enough for the target audience to see enough benefit to buy one. Not every update has to appeal to the whole early adopter market.
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On another forum where the posters are mostly amateurs with a few wedding shooters, some A9 users amongst them, there was quite a bit of dismay when the A9II was announced.
I'm not in the market for that camera (I still have my A7 mk1) so I was just following it all with interest. I understood the disappointment as some clearly wanted to buy a new shiny cutting edge camera but after reading a few blogs and comments from the usual on line suspects I've come to believe that for the small market segment this camera is aimed at the little improvements probably do add up to a significant upgrade and by that I mean significant enough for the target audience to see enough benefit to buy one. Not every update has to appeal to the whole early adopter market.
Of course. There are also new people who are getting into photography for the first time who want the latest. Sony continues to move forward to get Nikon and Canon business. I was always a Nikon fan. Bought my first Nikon F Photomic T in 1965 while I was in Japan. I've had two other 35mm's from them and have always bought and been loyal to Nikon. However, when got my latest P&S, it was a Sony, the RX100iv. I thought it was the best camera for my needs. Young people today don;t have the loyalty as older people did to Canon Nikon and others. So Sony is in a good position to get new loyalty. Like I said, even I'm changing.
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My first camera was a Kodak Instamatic, my first SLR was a Nikon and I used it for over 20 years. Happy days.
Anyway, this may be interesting even for people like me who wont be buying, 18 reasons to buy the A9II...
https://pmrphoto.blogspot.com/?fbclid=IwAR0MtNwjLDx1__jqKymu24sSilSjpbi1nbRlnkEUo6X5J9fLp-ARZ4sF8hc
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My first camera was a Kodak Instamatic, my first SLR was a Nikon and I used it for over 20 years. Happy days.
Anyway, this may be interesting even for people like me who wont be buying, 18 reasons to buy the A9II...
https://pmrphoto.blogspot.com/?fbclid=IwAR0MtNwjLDx1__jqKymu24sSilSjpbi1nbRlnkEUo6X5J9fLp-ARZ4sF8hc
Now that’s a real fan.
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
The Voigtländer 65mm Apo-Lanthar and 21mm Nokton are outstanding (manual) lenses for landscape work.
Glenn
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Which Sony is best for landscapes? Best lenses?
If you prefer MF for landscapes (I do) the Voigtlander 21 lenses, Voigtlander 50/2 APO, Voigtlander 65 APO Macro, Voigtlander 110 Macro, Loxias 21,25 and 85 are all superb. Lots of other really solid MF landscape lenses too. And a ton of amazing autofocus lenses if that's your preference (Sony 24/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 135/1.8, Sigma Arts etc.).