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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 118670 times)

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2880 on: January 08, 2020, 03:09:22 pm »

Every report/analysis I've ever heard or read about the Iranian nuclear deal stated that they were complying, complete with frequent on-site inspections (every 6 months rings a bell, but don't trust my memory on that).

But at least two respondents on this thread said that they weren't complying, i.e., cheating.

Both these versions cannot be true.

Anyway, we'll see.

Robert, the "on-site inspections" had to be requested in advance and then approved by the Iranians, making sure the "inspectors" never would find anything suspicious. There also was a limited list of places that could be inspected. Lets face it, no-notice inspections are the only kind that are likely to find anything. Ain't gonna happen.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2881 on: January 08, 2020, 03:57:11 pm »

Fact check -- that $1.7 billion was paid to settle an armament purchase contract which predated the Iranian revolution.  Iran paid for the arms, but they were never delivered.  The 1.7 billion was the amount of the payment, plus 25 years interest.  It is disingenuous to characterize that as a handover of U.S. taxpayers money, since it settled a legal debt.
The point is they used the JCPOA settlement and cash to stir up trouble in the Middle East.  The cash probably went to fund terrorist in other countries and line the pockets of corrupt Iranian politicians.  That's why the Iranians are protesting and being killed by their government. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2882 on: January 08, 2020, 03:59:32 pm »

Robert, the "on-site inspections" had to be requested in advance and then approved by the Iranians, making sure the "inspectors" never would find anything suspicious. There also was a limited list of places that could be inspected. Lets face it, no-notice inspections are the only kind that are likely to find anything. Ain't gonna happen.
Military bases were off limits to inspectors.  Guess where the nuclear research is going on?  In any case, imn a few years when the JCPOA ends, the Iranians can do whatever they want.  The JCPOA only kicked the can down the road for a few years while they consolidate their overreaching power in the Middle East.  We really don;t need a nuclear armed Persian empire. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2883 on: January 08, 2020, 04:11:34 pm »

Every report/analysis I've ever heard or read about the Iranian nuclear deal stated that they were complying, complete with frequent on-site inspections (every 6 months rings a bell, but don't trust my memory on that).

Correct.

And the deal was up for renewal/modification in 2031.

Iran nuclear deal: Key details:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655
Part of the deal were continuous inspections, and Iran would have 24 days to comply with any IAEA access request.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2884 on: January 08, 2020, 04:50:24 pm »

Correct.

And the deal was up for renewal/modification in 2031.

Iran nuclear deal: Key details:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655
Part of the deal were continuous inspections, and Iran would have 24 days to comply with any IAEA access request.

You're beating a dead horse.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2885 on: January 08, 2020, 05:00:36 pm »

President Trump again shows his insecurity in attacking President Obama for "funding" the Iran military.  this is a favorite canard of the right wing cabal who can't live with the truth and only find refuge in lies and innuendos.  I guess the US is just not ready to face up to history.  To quote our current President, "...so sad..."
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2886 on: January 08, 2020, 05:07:51 pm »

President Trump again shows his insecurity in attacking President Obama for "funding" the Iran military.  this is a favorite canard of the right wing cabal who can't live with the truth and only find refuge in lies and innuendos.  I guess the US is just not ready to face up to history.  To quote our current President, "...so sad..."

John Kerry admitted in 2016 to CNBC that some money given to Iran will probably go forwards terrorism and weapon development. 

Was it petty for Trump to mention this in his speech?  Yes.  Was it true?  Yes
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:22:17 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2887 on: January 08, 2020, 05:45:18 pm »

Here's a great one for all you Trumpophiles!  Treasury Secretary Mnuchin said that he does not want to disclose Secret Service expenditures on President Trump and his family's travel until after the 2020 election.  What is there to hide?  Don't the taxpayers have a right to know how our hard earned $$$s are being spent?  President Trump excoriated President Obama for all his trips to Hawaii and vowed to stay in Washington and do the people's work.  Eric and Donald Jr. have made business trips to overseas locales including Ireland, Scotland, Dubai, Uruguay and India.  Why shouldn't the business reimburse the US government for security?  It's a cost of doing business. 

A 1976 law allows the president to designate one primary residence outside the White House for the Secret Service to protect full-time. It also requires the agency to report to Congress semiannually the costs of securing that property. The Secret Service has failed or been late in recent years to provide even those limited costs reports. The agency did not file such reports in 2016 or 2017, according to the GAO. They have been delayed in submitting subsequent reports, filing a recent report in November that was due in March.  So much for transparency!!!!

Just for fun, here's a story on Senator Mike Lee's response to today's briefing on the Iran strike (surprise, he was not a fan and Fox News quickly cut away when they saw things going south; so much for "fair and balanced")  https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/1/8/21057471/utah-mike-lee-fox-news-video-briefing-iran-white-house-donald-trump   

This is getting to be really funny.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2888 on: January 08, 2020, 06:36:09 pm »

Here's a great one for all you Trumpophiles!  Treasury Secretary Mnuchin said that he does not want to disclose Secret Service expenditures on President Trump and his family's travel until after the 2020 election.  What is there to hide?  Don't the taxpayers have a right to know how our hard earned $$$s are being spent?  President Trump excoriated President Obama for all his trips to Hawaii and vowed to stay in Washington and do the people's work.  Eric and Donald Jr. have made business trips to overseas locales including Ireland, Scotland, Dubai, Uruguay and India.  Why shouldn't the business reimburse the US government for security?  It's a cost of doing business. 

A 1976 law allows the president to designate one primary residence outside the White House for the Secret Service to protect full-time. It also requires the agency to report to Congress semiannually the costs of securing that property. The Secret Service has failed or been late in recent years to provide even those limited costs reports. The agency did not file such reports in 2016 or 2017, according to the GAO. They have been delayed in submitting subsequent reports, filing a recent report in November that was due in March.  So much for transparency!!!!

Just for fun, here's a story on Senator Mike Lee's response to today's briefing on the Iran strike (surprise, he was not a fan and Fox News quickly cut away when they saw things going south; so much for "fair and balanced")  https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/1/8/21057471/utah-mike-lee-fox-news-video-briefing-iran-white-house-donald-trump   

This is getting to be really funny.

Only Democrats complain what the government spent for Trump trips to warm FLorida to play golf just like only Republicans complained what was spent on Obama trips to warm Hawaii so he could play golf.  Mar-a-lago Florida is a lot closer to Washington DC than Hawaii, by about 5000 miles each way. I'm just ticked off that neither invited me to tag along on Air Force 1.  :)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2889 on: January 08, 2020, 07:26:18 pm »

 ;D

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2890 on: January 08, 2020, 07:33:39 pm »

If Hillary was president,  a lot of people would have commited suicide.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2891 on: January 08, 2020, 10:25:55 pm »

John Kerry admitted in 2016 to CNBC that some money given to Iran will probably go forwards terrorism and weapon development. 

Was it petty for Trump to mention this in his speech?  Yes.  Was it true?  Yes

How come Saudi Arabia seems to mostly get a free pass on where they spend their money? I realize that sounds like the usual "what aboutism" but I think it's still a good question. I saw some stats once on how many lobbiests are on the Saudi payroll, so I assume they are able to exert control on many media outlets too. Am I not right to be suspicious?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2892 on: January 08, 2020, 10:34:14 pm »

A new Iranian nuclear deal may be in the offing, at least according to this piece from politico.com, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/08/trump-obama-iran-war-096359. It's head spinning trying to keep track of Trump policy plans. He wants NATO involved too. I wonder what he will say next week.

How do you guys keep track?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2893 on: January 08, 2020, 10:40:09 pm »

How come Saudi Arabia seems to mostly get a free pass on where they spend their money? I realize that sounds like the usual "what aboutism" but I think it's still a good question. I saw some stats once on how many lobbiests are on the Saudi payroll, so I assume they are able to exert control on many media outlets too. Am I not right to be suspicious?

Good question.  Saudi Arabia have been allies of America and our suppliers of oil for decades.  Iran was a friend under the Shah.  But after the ayatollahs took over, seized our embassy, and took hostages, we've become adversaries.  Trump states that we're ready to let bygones be bygones if they forget nukes and stop their interference in ME politics.  He's told the North Koreans the same thing.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2894 on: January 08, 2020, 11:01:02 pm »

A new Iranian nuclear deal may be in the offing, at least according to this piece from politico.com, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/08/trump-obama-iran-war-096359. It's head spinning trying to keep track of Trump policy plans. He wants NATO involved too. I wonder what he will say next week.

How do you guys keep track?
There's nothing hard to understand.  Trump has no ill will toward Iran, Russia, China, Palestine,  or North Korea or anyone else.  As long as they're no threat to the US, he will get along and work with anyone.  If not, he'll use American economic and military power to subdue or suppress possible and real enemies of America. He has no interest in war and wants out keep America out of them.   He plays good cop bad cop with everyone.  All carrot and stick. He believes the JCPOA as a bad deal of the west.  And he's stated very early that if he could make a better deal with Iran, he would.  So he pulled out the carrot and stick again in his speech today to let the Iranian know he's willing to work with them. Meanwhile he's going to squeeze them some more with additional sanctions.   The ball's in their court.

The thing that;s happening is that the world isn't use to a president like Trump. Even Republicans aren't use to it. Most presidents roll over and appease friends and enemies, often putting America second.  He's like he is as a big real estate developer.  He's use to using his power to get his way and leverages that power to his advantage.  That's what he's doing with American power now that's he's president.  If you're loyal to him, you got a friend in America.  If you're not, then watch out.  He and America comes first.  That's Trump.  Everyone has to pick a side they want to be on.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2895 on: January 08, 2020, 11:08:32 pm »

Pelosi loses Senate Democrats on Trump impeachment delay
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51042196

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2896 on: January 09, 2020, 08:37:53 am »

. . .rather than trying to understand the complexities of diplomacy...

One thing I forgot to mention, Bernard: diplomacy, complex or not, only works if there's the possibility of force behind it. The possibility can be specific or implied, but it's got to be there somewhere.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2897 on: January 09, 2020, 09:03:15 am »

One thing I forgot to mention, Bernard: diplomacy, complex or not, only works if there's the possibility of force behind it. The possibility can be specific or implied, but it's got to be there somewhere.

So true! Anything less is just empty posturing for domestic consumption.

;-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2898 on: January 09, 2020, 09:35:33 am »

The latest polls:

Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2899 on: January 09, 2020, 09:59:34 am »

The latest polls:

Reminds me of the current UK Labour Party struggle to find a more charismatic leader than Corbyn... thing is, to achieve such, one has to start from the position where one of them has charisma. I heard that, once, they'd thought of electing a chair. Lost opportunity, I guess.

Rob
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