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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 118945 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2840 on: January 07, 2020, 03:07:53 pm »

I understand that. But as far as I understood it  Mr. Trump's threat was specifically against cultural sites, not as collaterals.

Probably my poor English. Cannot believe that can be true...
Apologies.  I forgot mind reading was a newly aquired gift for many on the left after 2016.   ;)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2841 on: January 07, 2020, 03:08:15 pm »

I understand that. But as far as I understood it  Mr. Trump's threat was specifically against cultural sites, not as collaterals.

Probably my poor English. Cannot believe that can be true...

Which part of Joe’s explanation made you think he talked about collaterals?

rabanito

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2842 on: January 07, 2020, 03:15:19 pm »

Which part of Joe’s explanation made you think he talked about collaterals?

Again my apologies for my poor English

I thought I've written "not as colaterals", meaning he meant that he would attack ath cultural sites on purpose

Or is it one of those cases of "answering before reading carefully"?
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rabanito

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2843 on: January 07, 2020, 03:22:00 pm »

Apologies.  I forgot mind reading was a newly aquired gift for many on the left after 2016.   ;)

I don't understand what does "left" to do with reading the newspapers.

I found, and that's why I asked:

"WASHINGTON — President Trump on Sunday evening doubled down on his claim that he would target Iranian cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the targeted killing of one of its top generals..."

Doesn't look like "mind reading" from my part. Or "left", whatever that may mean to you.
Hope this helps
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 03:35:10 pm by rabanito »
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rabanito

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2844 on: January 07, 2020, 03:26:03 pm »


Everyone's poor English: it means whatever he wants it to mean, just as in the world of Alice.

You mean "erethism mercurialis"?
The tea party...
I like your humour
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2845 on: January 07, 2020, 03:53:11 pm »

I don't understand what does "left" to do with reading the newspapers.

I found, and that's why I asked:

"WASHINGTON — President Trump on Sunday evening doubled down on his claim that he would target Iranian cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the targeted killing of one of its top generals..."

Doesn't look like "mind reading" from my part. Or "left", whatever that may mean to you.
Hope this helps

Maybe 'Left' means  'reading newspapers'   and   'newspapers'  mean  'fake news'  or better    'Deep Fake'
In that case you are 'Left'   means    you are  'Deep fake' aka  'Bullshit'

Leaves us Trump and some gentlemen here to tell  'Bullshit'  the   'Truth'.

The  'Truth'  is different from  'Bullshit'  in the sense that it does not smell. ;)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 06:52:53 pm by kers »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2846 on: January 07, 2020, 03:58:27 pm »

Again my apologies for my poor English

I thought I've written "not as colaterals", meaning he meant that he would attack ath cultural sites on purpose

Or is it one of those cases of "answering before reading carefully"?

Oh, I understood what you meant and I read it carefully. But neither our Joe nor Trump mentioned collaterals, so not sure why would you bring that word into the discussion?

What Joe said is that many cultural, religious, medical, etc. sites are often used as a shield for military activity. In which case they become legitimate military targets, not collaterals.

When a military object happens to be in the vicinity of a church, hospital, etc. and the bomb that was targeting the military object happens to damage the church etc., that's a collateral damage.

When they use a church or hospital roof to place, say, rocket launchers, and get destroyed in the process, that’s not a collateral damage.

Having said that, I have no idea what Trump or his military commanders meant by “cultural sites.”

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2847 on: January 07, 2020, 04:52:41 pm »

And now something completely different:

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/476894-chelsea-clinton-reaps-9-million-from-corporate-board-position?amp

Quote
Clinton, the only child of former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has served on IAC's board since 2011 and receives an annual $50,000 retainer and $250,000 worth of restricted IAC stock units, Barron's reports.

She reported owning $8.95 million worth of IAC stock to the Securities and Exchange Commission at the end of December.

Quote
Clinton was named to the board of Expedia Group in March of 2017, a position that typically earned $250,000 in 2015, according to a report at the time by The Guardian.

Both IAC and Expedia are controlled by Barry Diller, the business and television mogul, who is a friend of Hillary Clinton.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2848 on: January 07, 2020, 04:54:22 pm »

Maybe 'Left' means  'reading newspapers'   and   'newspapers'  mean  'fake news'  or better    'Deep Fake'
In that case you are 'Left'   means    you are  'Deep fake' aka  'Bullshit'

Leaves us Trump and some gentlemen here to tell  'Bullshit'  the   'Truth'.

The  'Truth'  is different from  'Bullshit'  in the sense that is does not smell. ;)

Have you tried standup comedy?

If you did, I hope your didn’t leave your day job.

rabanito

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2849 on: January 07, 2020, 05:02:08 pm »

Having said that, I have no idea what Trump or his military commanders meant by “cultural sites.”

Yes, looks like it. Here we seem to agree.
Thanks for writing about it anyway...
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2850 on: January 07, 2020, 05:13:21 pm »

Having said that, I have no idea what Trump or his military commanders meant by “cultural sites.”
He has backed away from his comments today. After being briefed by his generals on the provisions of the Hague Convention relating to cultural sites, he now says he will follow the law.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2851 on: January 07, 2020, 06:10:10 pm »

He has backed away from his comments today. After being briefed by his generals on the provisions of the Hague Convention relating to cultural sites, he now says he will follow the law.

Must have been the usual shoot from the hip Trump bs. I don't believe that he was thinking of the idea that "cultural sites" may serve as shelter for military activities when he made the statement. I sort of disregarded it when he said it, just the usual bombast.

As to whether it is a good thing or not to consult with allies before making a move, that's always a judgement call. There's a price to pay either way.

I still haven't heard a good strategic reason for making the move. (I don't mean just from this conversation.) Is it part of longer term strategy? Are people making up the strategic value after the fact? There may be a group of foreign policy advisors who thought and planned over these things but that's not the impression I get from media, which may not mean much. OTOH, Trump has never given the impression of being a long-term strategic thinker, or at least he's hidden it well up to now. Unless you know what the long-term plan is, it's difficult to judge if this killing furthers that plan.

I recommend again that NPR Fresh Air podcast a few pages back about an analysis of the long-term strategy in Afghanistan (various failures in the Bush and Obama administrations), which suggests that there may not be good long-term planning at work in USA foreign policy circles. That is, recent history does not fill you with confidence. Some high-ranking officials involved in that arena came right out and said so. (For Russ's benefit, it was the officials who said so, including military ones, not the leftie NPR journalists.)

Might be useful to look at things from the other people's point of view. Eighteen not very effective years in Afghanistan in the sense of accomplishment with many people on the ground preferring the Taliban chieftains over the corrupt Afghan "government". Iraq's mess not exactly fixed or even on the way. So in the midst of that, the US kills some Iranian general. As retaliation of what happened at the embassy, it's maybe not a bad idea, but will the aftermath be good. I really like the Zen master story scene from near the end of the movie Charlie Wilson's War, (language caution) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cjVhUrmII.

Btw, I thought that reference to Neville Chamberlain earlier was a cheap shot, although it was funny. It's not we're dealing with Hitler and no one was handing over the Sudetenland. Things are murkier than that.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2852 on: January 07, 2020, 06:43:48 pm »

Robert, what if there has never been a long term strategy in anything? American business is often accused of short-termism, thinking only about quarterly results. Why would politics be any different? Two-year election cycle probably being the longest.

Come to think of it, the only force with a long-term game are Muslims. They know the future belongs to them and are in no hurry. In 50 years, Europe will be theirs. Iran doesn’t have to retaliate today.

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2853 on: January 07, 2020, 07:05:59 pm »

Robert, what if there has never been a long term strategy in anything? American business is often accused of short-termism, thinking only about quarterly results. Why would politics be any different? Two-year election cycle probably being the longest.

Come to think of it, the only force with a long-term game are Muslims. They know the future belongs to them and are in no hurry. In 50 years, Europe will be theirs. Iran doesn’t have to retaliate today.

Well, then it is good thing you left Europe as now you can hide behind the new build US-fence.
Talking about long term planning...The Chinese are thinking 40-50 years ahead... and eventually they will have the edge.
At the moment in the US every 4-8 years the national and international policy changes 180 degrees so nothing goes forward, and other countries start loosing their trust in the agreements they think to have made.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2854 on: January 07, 2020, 07:09:31 pm »

Must have been the usual shoot from the hip Trump bs. I don't believe that he was thinking of the idea that "cultural sites" may serve as shelter for military activities when he made the statement. I sort of disregarded it when he said it, just the usual bombast.

As to whether it is a good thing or not to consult with allies before making a move, that's always a judgement call. There's a price to pay either way.

I still haven't heard a good strategic reason for making the move. (I don't mean just from this conversation.) Is it part of longer term strategy? Are people making up the strategic value after the fact? There may be a group of foreign policy advisors who thought and planned over these things but that's not the impression I get from media, which may not mean much. OTOH, Trump has never given the impression of being a long-term strategic thinker, or at least he's hidden it well up to now. Unless you know what the long-term plan is, it's difficult to judge if this killing furthers that plan.

I recommend again that NPR Fresh Air podcast a few pages back about an analysis of the long-term strategy in Afghanistan (various failures in the Bush and Obama administrations), which suggests that there may not be good long-term planning at work in USA foreign policy circles. That is, recent history does not fill you with confidence. Some high-ranking officials involved in that arena came right out and said so. (For Russ's benefit, it was the officials who said so, including military ones, not the leftie NPR journalists.)

Might be useful to look at things from the other people's point of view. Eighteen not very effective years in Afghanistan in the sense of accomplishment with many people on the ground preferring the Taliban chieftains over the corrupt Afghan "government". Iraq's mess not exactly fixed or even on the way. So in the midst of that, the US kills some Iranian general. As retaliation of what happened at the embassy, it's maybe not a bad idea, but will the aftermath be good. I really like the Zen master story scene from near the end of the movie Charlie Wilson's War, (language caution) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cjVhUrmII.

Btw, I thought that reference to Neville Chamberlain earlier was a cheap shot, although it was funny. It's not we're dealing with Hitler and no one was handing over the Sudetenland. Things are murkier than that.

This is why we should get out of the ME.  WE have no long term strategy other than killing terrorists.  But who careas about so-called terrorists who won;t attack us and are just otherwise combatants looking for power for themselves and tribes?  They're all a**holes and hate America.  So there's no point picking one over the other.  They;ll all stab us in the back when we're not looking.   Let them kill each other and we stay out of it.  It's not in our interest.  Actually, the Europeans should care more because of the oil.  We don;t need it. So let the Germans, Brits, French etc send their troops and money and figure things out.  Anyway, they're the ones who started this mess 100 years ago with their colonialism and"nation" forming that looks like Swiss cheese when they left the mess after WWI.  WHy should America get between the SUnnis and Shias?  Why should America get between Turkey and the Kurds?  Why should America gert between the SAudis and Iranians?  etc vs etc?     

Peter McLennan

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2855 on: January 07, 2020, 07:14:16 pm »


Come to think of it, the only force with a long-term game are Muslims.

And Mother Nature.

Oops!  Wrong thread. :) (not)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2856 on: January 07, 2020, 07:14:58 pm »

Well, then it is good thing you left Europe as now you can hide behind the new build US-fence.
Talking about long term planning...The Chinese are thinking 40-50 years ahead... and eventually they will have the edge.
At the moment in the US every 4-8 years the national and international policy changes 180 degrees so nothing goes forward, and other countries start loosing their trust in the agreements they think to have made.
How do you think Americans feel when you and other Europeans don;t keep their commitments to spend 2% of your budgets for your military?  You're BSing us.  Then you tell us we should be spending our money on national health care.  How can we when we have to make up your lack of spending on your military by us having to spend more on ours?  Don;t be cheapskates, otherwise we'll pull completely out of NATO and leave you to deal with Russians on your own.  Then you'll have to send ship to the Gulf of Hormuz to defend the Saudi king murderer so you can get your oil to heat your house.   

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2857 on: January 07, 2020, 07:18:31 pm »

How do you think Americans feel when you and other Europeans don;t keep their commitments to spend 2% of your budgets for your military?  You're BSing us.  Then you tell us we should be spending our money on national health care.  How can we when we have to make up your lack of spending on your military by us having to spend more on ours?  Don;t be cheapskates, otherwise we'll pull completely out of NATO and leave you to deal with Russians on your own.  Then you'll have to send ship to the Gulf of Hormuz to defend the Saudi king murderer so you can get your oil to heat your house.   

Alan, it is Biden or the 2% we should spend on our military...
maybe... it is Bidens fault we spend so little on our Defense?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2858 on: January 07, 2020, 10:48:18 pm »

Alan, it is Biden or the 2% we should spend on our military...
maybe... it is Bidens fault we spend so little on our Defense?
Don;t understand.  Please clarify.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2859 on: January 07, 2020, 10:50:52 pm »



Btw, I thought that reference to Neville Chamberlain earlier was a cheap shot, although it was funny. It's not we're dealing with Hitler and no one was handing over the Sudetenland. Things are murkier than that.

I am pretty certain that if Churchill was in power at the Munich accords and came down hard on Hitler, the world would have been hearing that same thing that we are reading on this forum
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