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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136878 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2700 on: January 03, 2020, 12:39:31 pm »

Ah.... yes.... NPR. "Fresh Air." Now THERE's a reliable source  :o ;D

Maybe you haven't noticed, Robert, that the U.S. no longer has a draft. It's all voluntary nowadays, and if you enlist but don't realize you may be facing what I'll call a tough situation, then it's simply Darwin at work.

Fresh Air was merely the conduit for the interview. The author of the work in question was reporting on what the actors in the drama said themselves. Listen to the content of the information, try to set aside your own biases. Or maybe read the released papers themselves, they're part of the public record now.

Your second statement is interesting. It seems to reflect an attitude that since the members of the armed forces are no longer drafted that somehow this affects the rules of engagement. I hope you're NOT saying that. Are they now just a mercenary force that can be aimed at some target of convenience regardless of any wider benefit to the citizens of the US? Maybe dying for pay is ok for employees of private armies but it doesn't seem appropriate to me for the armed forces of a country. Please tell me I misunderstood what you wrote.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2701 on: January 03, 2020, 12:50:27 pm »

Reading about the events of yesterday and today have brought up some really interesting material.  I had no clue.

This one really caught my attention:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11741235/Obamas-Iran-deal-has-just-granted-an-amnesty-to-the-worlds-leading-terrorist-mastermind.html

The money quote:
"So you can imagine my amazement when, leafing through the more obscure annexes of President Barack Obama’s “historic” deal with Iran (page 86 of the annex, to be precise), I found that Mr Suliemani – as the White House no doubt now refers to him – has been granted an amnesty and taken off the list of proscribed Iranians – together with a number of senior members of the Revolutionary Guards."

Here's my point.  What we WERE doing was not working.  Like it or not something different might be what is needed.  Time will tell if that's true. Staying where we were had no upside IMO
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2702 on: January 03, 2020, 01:25:56 pm »

I fear that this will have a complete full and total destabilizing effect on the entire area, perhaps the globe too, and ultimately bring us into another world war. 

Just like what happened when we moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem at the beginning of Trumps presidency.  Thinking back to two years ago (has it only been that long?), when the embassy was moved and the total chaos that ensued, immense loss of life, numerous world leaders being killed, militaries being decimated, loss of a generation, just brings tears to my eyes. 

How could anyone really want that again.   ???
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kers

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2704 on: January 03, 2020, 02:04:40 pm »

The Guardian editorial reflects my thoughts;...

Surprise, surprise, a radical left media agrees with you (or vice versa).

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2705 on: January 03, 2020, 02:11:31 pm »

Surprise, surprise, a radical left media agrees with you (or vice versa).
radical? then everything left from extreme right is radical left for you.
Just stop with your radical left nonsense and come with some arguments why their vision is wrong.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2706 on: January 03, 2020, 02:16:46 pm »

Any American president would be derelict in his job if he knew Soleimani was planning an attack on American troops and or civilians and did nothing to try to prevent it.   

What other option did he have?

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2707 on: January 03, 2020, 03:03:10 pm »

Fresh Air was merely the conduit for the interview.

And, since Fresh Air is the outfit that decides what goes on their broadcasts, it's inconceivable that they'd be biased, right Robert?

Quote
Your second statement is interesting. It seems to reflect an attitude that since the members of the armed forces are no longer drafted that somehow this affects the rules of engagement. I hope you're NOT saying that. Are they now just a mercenary force that can be aimed at some target of convenience regardless of any wider benefit to the citizens of the US? Maybe dying for pay is ok for employees of private armies but it doesn't seem appropriate to me for the armed forces of a country. Please tell me I misunderstood what you wrote.

You lost me on rules of engagement, Robert. Do you think they’d be different when people are drafted? I spent 26 years in the US Air Force. I went to war three times: once as a fighter-bomber pilot in Korea, once as commander of a radar site in the Vietnam delta, and once as commander of the group that owned our remaining radar sites in SEA when we were trying to hold back Pol Pot’s forces. During my first two wars there were draftees. During the third, everyone was a volunteer.

You seem to think that people who volunteer are mercenaries. All I can do with that idea is ask you how much military experience you’ve had. When I was at NORAD headquarters, and earlier when I was a grunt controller at a radar site in Beausejour, Manitoba, I had several close Canadian friends. They weren’t mercenaries any more than I was. You need to re-think your position.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2708 on: January 03, 2020, 04:56:13 pm »

My condolences to Jihadi Jane, also known as Ilhan Omar, for losing her CO.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2709 on: January 03, 2020, 05:07:39 pm »

https://globalnews.ca/news/6361577/donald-trump-obama-iran-war-2011-video/

Watch the video at the top of the page.

(edited to conform with forum rules)
Trump blaming Obama for trying to start a war with Iran.  In 2011.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 05:17:24 pm by Peter McLennan »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2710 on: January 03, 2020, 05:12:01 pm »

And, since Fresh Air is the outfit that decides what goes on their broadcasts, it's inconceivable that they'd be biased, right Robert?

You lost me on rules of engagement, Robert. Do you think they’d be different when people are drafted? I spent 26 years in the US Air Force. I went to war three times: once as a fighter-bomber pilot in Korea, once as commander of a radar site in the Vietnam delta, and once as commander of the group that owned our remaining radar sites in SEA when we were trying to hold back Pol Pot’s forces. During my first two wars there were draftees. During the third, everyone was a volunteer.

You seem to think that people who volunteer are mercenaries. All I can do with that idea is ask you how much military experience you’ve had. When I was at NORAD headquarters, and earlier when I was a grunt controller at a radar site in Beausejour, Manitoba, I had several close Canadian friends. They weren’t mercenaries any more than I was. You need to re-think your position.

Although I was a USAF volunteer during Vietnam when there was a draft, I never spent time in a combat zone.  So my resume is parse compared to yours, Russ.  While the military likes an all volunteer force as they feel they get more dedicated personnel, there are two areas that concerns me with no draft. 

The first is all Americans should have a stake in the country and know that it's no game to defend the country.  We all benefit from the defense of the country and we should all be willing to sacrifice if the need arises. 

Second, a draft gets politicians nervous about what the public thinks.  President Johnson use to stand by the window in the oval office watching the demonstrators marching against the Vietnam War in front of the White House.  It makes them more cautious about getting into conflict.  Knowing that your kid might be drafted to go die in some place you can;t pronounce keeps leaders on their toes. 

PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2711 on: January 03, 2020, 06:26:03 pm »


The first is all Americans should have a stake in the country and know that it's no game to defend the country.  We all benefit from the defense of the country and we should all be willing to sacrifice if the need arises. 


I agree with this. Then how can you accept that Trump avoided the draft with a phony medical exemption provided by a doctor who rented his office from Trump Sr. and owed him a favor? Heel spurs my ass. And the grief this chickenshit draft dodger gave McCain, a genuine hero? Lord have mercy.
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2712 on: January 03, 2020, 07:42:51 pm »

Of course Clinton never did anything like that. Right, Peter?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2713 on: January 03, 2020, 07:57:43 pm »

I agree with this. Then how can you accept that Trump avoided the draft with a phony medical exemption provided by a doctor who rented his office from Trump Sr. and owed him a favor? Heel spurs my ass. And the grief this chickenshit draft dodger gave McCain, a genuine hero? Lord have mercy.

I'm not happy about that.  But we had a choice in 2016 for who to vote for.  And Trump was the better candidate.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2714 on: January 03, 2020, 08:50:58 pm »

And, since Fresh Air is the outfit that decides what goes on their broadcasts, it's inconceivable that they'd be biased, right Robert?

You lost me on rules of engagement, Robert. Do you think they’d be different when people are drafted? I spent 26 years in the US Air Force. I went to war three times: once as a fighter-bomber pilot in Korea, once as commander of a radar site in the Vietnam delta, and once as commander of the group that owned our remaining radar sites in SEA when we were trying to hold back Pol Pot’s forces. During my first two wars there were draftees. During the third, everyone was a volunteer.

You seem to think that people who volunteer are mercenaries. All I can do with that idea is ask you how much military experience you’ve had. When I was at NORAD headquarters, and earlier when I was a grunt controller at a radar site in Beausejour, Manitoba, I had several close Canadian friends. They weren’t mercenaries any more than I was. You need to re-think your position.

That's fine, don't listen to the podcast. Given that almost half the air time was given to criticism of Obama era policies re Afghanistan, you might have found it interesting.

As for the rest of your response, re-read what I wrote earlier, you seem to have misunderstood. Or don't, up to you.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 09:06:14 pm by Robert Roaldi »
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2715 on: January 04, 2020, 12:20:50 pm »

I'm not happy about that.  But we had a choice in 2016 for who to vote for.  And Trump was the better candidate.

Yes, "we" had a choice of whom to vote for. And almost 3 million more of us voted for Clinton. Yet thanks to the idiotic electoral college we are saddled with Trump, who is busy screwing up the country and the world.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2716 on: January 04, 2020, 12:27:09 pm »

Yes, "we" had a choice of whom to vote for. And almost 3 million more of us voted for Clinton. Yet thanks to the idiotic electoral college we are saddled with Trump, who is busy screwing up the country and the world.
Instead of calling the Electoral College idiotic, maybe you should study the issue a little and try to understand why our election system was created that way!
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2717 on: January 04, 2020, 12:38:28 pm »

Yes, "we" had a choice of whom to vote for. And almost 3 million more of us voted for Clinton. Yet thanks to the idiotic electoral college we are saddled with Trump, who is busy screwing up the country and the world.

Everyone knew the rules of the election going in and guess what, the popular vote is meaningless.  Hillary lost because she was so arrogant she failed to take ther message to states that were her undoing.  If you want to debate the Electorial College, thats fair game, but from my cheap seats the EC is what gives me, from flyover country, a real voice in who becomes President. Without it New York and California would rule the roost.   I can't remember where I read it (and I'll be happy to admit I have it wrong if I do) but Trump won the popular vote of 49 states combined if you leave out California. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2718 on: January 04, 2020, 02:05:31 pm »

Everyone knew the rules of the election going in and guess what, the popular vote is meaningless.  Hillary lost because she was so arrogant she failed to take ther message to states that were her undoing.  If you want to debate the Electorial College, thats fair game, but from my cheap seats the EC is what gives me, from flyover country, a real voice in who becomes President. Without it New York and California would rule the roost.   I can't remember where I read it (and I'll be happy to admit I have it wrong if I do) but Trump won the popular vote of 49 states combined if you leave out California. 

What interesting is that you had an effect being in "flyover" country.  Living in NJ, my vote for Trump didn;t count since NJ electoral votes went for Clinton.  While the popular votes country wide was 3M more for Clinton, I'm curious what the popular not electoral votes total were for states won electorally?  I haven;t been able to find it in Google. DOes anyone have those numbers?

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2719 on: January 04, 2020, 03:00:49 pm »

Everyone knew the rules of the election going in and guess what, the popular vote is meaningless.  Hillary lost because she was so arrogant she failed to take ther message to states that were her undoing.  If you want to debate the Electorial College, thats fair game, but from my cheap seats the EC is what gives me, from flyover country, a real voice in who becomes President. Without it New York and California would rule the roost.   I can't remember where I read it (and I'll be happy to admit I have it wrong if I do) but Trump won the popular vote of 49 states combined if you leave out California.

The problem with this is that, by and large, “states” are arbitrarily drawn and aren’t individuals of singular mind and concern.  To say that “California” would determine national elections is irrelevant - the national concerns of one person in San Francisco vs one person in Lancaster CA are as different in some as they are mine, in Austin, Tx and Alan’s in NJ, or some other person in Wyoming.  What actually ends up happening is that rural communities aren’t given equal footing in the sense that a farmer in Idaho has the same impact as a tech magnate in San Jose, but rather that farmer has an impact that is proportionally *greater* than the man or woman in CA.

Why are we to value milk over silicon?  Wheat over fruit?  Just because 40 million people live within the geographical division we call “California” is no reason for them to have less representation when choosing a national leader than the good folks of North Dakota, is there?   
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