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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 325967 times)

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2100 on: December 16, 2019, 04:27:22 pm »

Fortunately, we... who are all left from you... have the oracle RSL on our right side, to guide us through these dark times...

That would matter, Peiter, if leftists were capable of learning anything from observation or experience, but as I pointed out, they're not.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2101 on: December 16, 2019, 05:26:05 pm »

That would matter, Peiter, if leftists were capable of learning anything from observation or experience, but as I pointed out, they're not.

Russ,

I am wondering to what degree you are able to deal with complexity. I hope you don't take this as a personal attack because it isn't one, it's a genuine question.

You answers make me think you have formed a model of the world made up of left and right, good and evil,... that is so different from the real world I live in that it makes me wonder whether you have the ability to comprehend the complexities we have to deal with.

It's a rhetorical question that won't be answered obviously. But it's a scary thought.

It looks like you define every way of thinking differing from yours as "leftie". When Trump gets bad press, they are "enemies of the state",... examples abound.

But the craziest thing is that this mechanical reaction makes you fall in the very pitfall you describe as evil... the absence of democracy since your own behavior is the worst democracy killer. You are so entrenched in your own views that you are giving up on this very freedom you have fought for. Whoever they are, the lefties have won because they have succeeded in making you behave like them.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2102 on: December 16, 2019, 05:46:48 pm »

And what makes you think stuff won’t happen under state ownership or control?

Slobodan,

I have never said stuff wouldn't happen under state ownership or control.

It's really hard to discuss with you because you are making no attempt whatsoever to comprehend what others are saying.

You project on me your black and white simplistic views of the world and make it look like mines fall in the same category as yours. You view everything through your categorizations of left/right without attempting to see beyond that, as if you were afraid that a true conversation could take you to areas you are not comfortable with, to things you cannot defend.

History can teach us many different things. That communism doesn't work, that privately controlled nuclear facilities both carry a risk of under-investment in safety and an intrinsic inability to deal with the costs when somethings goes very wrong,... this still leaves ample room for solutions away from the simplistic dogma you are bombarding us with.

I have never lived in a communist regime and my understanding of it has been shaped by the reading of Kundera. Certainly not sufficient to secure a deep understanding, but enough to be convinced that it doesn't work for the people nor for the country. Does that mean that all attempt of socialism fail? Go visit Sweden and tell me about it. Socialism is a simple idea that the wealth of a country is defined by that of its poorest citizens. It's simply the opposite of selfishness. It has not much to do with communism except for the fact that communism is one form of socialism. Does that say anything about free enterprise or state control? Not at all. Socialism is totally compatible with free market and free enterprise and it's very possible to become as rich as you please in a socialist European country. It doesn't mean that, as a society, money is defined as the driving force and the horizon of personal development.

This baseline being set, learning from the mistakes of Fukushima and enforcing state control/ownership of Nuclear operators is simply common sense and is not anymore a socialist measure than keeping US army control at state level is a socialist measure. It's just the way it has to be done. How about Chernobyl? As explained, this will not prevent stuff from happening but under proper democratic control (which was obviously not the case in communist and highly corrupt Ukraine) we will at least get the right focus on safety and the state will be able to deal with consequences if stuff occurs. Which, again, is not the case in Japan at the moment.

But perhaps it's now time to get back to our favorite impeachment case... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 07:05:36 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2103 on: December 16, 2019, 06:45:08 pm »

France seems to be dealing with nuclear pretty well.  Why not follow their lead?

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2104 on: December 16, 2019, 06:58:29 pm »

France seems to be dealing with nuclear pretty well.  Why not follow their lead?

Yes.

https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/investisseurs-actionnaires/l-action-edf/structure-du-capital

EDF is state owned with a max of 30% private investment.

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2105 on: December 16, 2019, 07:25:06 pm »

Yes.

https://www.edf.fr/groupe-edf/espaces-dedies/investisseurs-actionnaires/l-action-edf/structure-du-capital

EDF is state owned with a max of 30% private investment.

Cheers,
Bernard

I guess that means there's room for improvement. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2106 on: December 16, 2019, 08:01:42 pm »

I guess that means there's room for improvement.

Joe,

Apologies, but I don't think you have demonstrated sufficient understanding of the Fukushima situation to make your opinion on this a relevant one... I understand your philosophical inclination in favor of the absence of state intervention in the business arena, but facts have clearly demonstrated that this doesn't work for Nuclear power.

I don't think you know people who have had to host refugees for months, if not years, because the private operator who messed up wasn't able to deal with the consequences of their mistakes. I happen to know such people. The same refugees who happened to fund the country house of Tepco's CEO throughout the years when they didn't invest what they should have in the safety of the Fukushima Dai 1 power plant.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2107 on: December 16, 2019, 08:24:23 pm »

Fukushima looked pretty bad on TV with a plant blowing up into the sky.   Would government ownership have changed anything though?  Wasn't the fact they were next to the ocean and a tsunami hit the main problem? Didn't thre government approve the location?

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2108 on: December 16, 2019, 08:37:11 pm »

Fukushima looked pretty bad on TV with a plant blowing up into the sky.   Would government ownership have changed anything though?  Wasn't the fact they were next to the ocean and a tsunami hit the main problem? Didn't thre government approve the location?

Please re-read what I wrote Alan, the key issue is how the private operator wasn't able to deal with the financial consequences of the huge issues their plant generated.

Besides, the location was known to have tsunami risks and recommendations made by audits had not been implemented, most probably out of profitability concerns.

Finally, the tsunami is only part of the story, the plant is known to have been damaged first by the quake due to it no meeting safety standards.

Had the Japanese gov a partial responsibility also in not forcing a private operator to reach requirements, yes they did.

Did they do a mea cupla and compensate financially the people who got impacted? No they didn't on the ground that this was private business...

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2109 on: December 16, 2019, 11:02:37 pm »

Joe,

Apologies, but I don't think you have demonstrated sufficient understanding of the Fukushima situation to make your opinion on this a relevant one... I understand your philosophical inclination in favor of the absence of state intervention in the business arena, but facts have clearly demonstrated that this doesn't work for Nuclear power.

I don't think you know people who have had to host refugees for months, if not years, because the private operator who messed up wasn't able to deal with the consequences of their mistakes. I happen to know such people. The same refugees who happened to fund the country house of Tepco's CEO throughout the years when they didn't invest what they should have in the safety of the Fukushima Dai 1 power plant.

Cheers,
Bernard

Comedy really did die in November of 2016. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2110 on: December 17, 2019, 12:14:52 am »

Comedy really did die in November of 2016.

I am sorry you think this is joke material.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2111 on: December 17, 2019, 02:49:09 am »

According to the latest Fox news survey, 50% of Americans think Trump should be impeached and removed from office.

I wonder which of the Republican Senators will go against the will of the people they are supposed to be representing when they vote against impeachment... since we have clear declarations from key Republicans that they will not make the hearings a fair trial.

Cheers,
Bernard

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2112 on: December 17, 2019, 03:47:34 am »

... Does that mean that all attempt of socialism fail?...

Yes.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2113 on: December 17, 2019, 03:52:53 am »

According to the latest Fox news survey, 50% of Americans think Trump should be impeached and removed from office.

I wonder which of the Republican Senators will go against the will of the people...

No, they will go for the will of the other 50% of the people, or 100% of the people they represent.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2114 on: December 17, 2019, 05:30:04 am »

Yes.

It's always enriching to see a well argumented and documented statement.

I hope you are at least able to convince yourself. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2115 on: December 17, 2019, 05:47:02 am »

No, they will go for the will of the other 50% of the people, or 100% of the people they represent.

Hum... how does that work when Trump got 49% of votes in 2016 and only 40% of people are against the impeachment?

It would appear that you are missing 9% of of people at this point... which is more than 10 million people whose opinion will not be taken into account by their representatives.

That sounds like a great democracy!

And that is assuming that Fox survey number represent the reality of the situation... which would be a bit surprising considering the vested interest they have in showing Trump in good light.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2116 on: December 17, 2019, 06:02:51 am »

That sounds like a great democracy!

I think Slobodan has tried before to argue that the United States is not a democracy... .
So if that's (probably) his point of view, there's nothing wrong with a president breaking his oath of office while running the circus.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2117 on: December 17, 2019, 06:11:33 am »

I think Slobodan has tried before to argue that the United States is not a democracy... .

Certainly not a media-polling democracy.

It is, of course, a democracy in its broader meaning that includes representative democracy, where people decide every four years who they want to represent them. Via elections, not via daily media polling, and not via impeachment attempts since day one after election.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2118 on: December 17, 2019, 06:18:19 am »

Certainly not a media-polling democracy.

Puzzling, since you also were in favor of populism (as if that is the pinacle of a representative democracy).

BTW, only voting once every 4 years is not the only instrument that the US Constitution offers to keep a government in check.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2119 on: December 17, 2019, 06:27:20 am »

Puzzling, since you also were in favor of populism...

I don’t even know what that is, let alone be in favor of it. If that means doing what people want, expressed in elections, than, yes, I might be a populist. Doing what people want, isn’t that the very essence of democracy?
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