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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136566 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2080 on: December 16, 2019, 03:59:24 am »

Exactly, stuff always happens and it's irresponsible to put in place frameworks assuming that it won't...

And what makes you think stuff won’t happen under state ownership or control?

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2081 on: December 16, 2019, 04:13:14 am »

And what makes you think stuff won’t happen under state ownership or control?

Chernobyl, of course.

Jeremy
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2082 on: December 16, 2019, 06:02:23 am »

For every Chernobyl, there is one Fukushima and one Three Island privately owned and operated plant.
And not to forget Exxon Valdez.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2083 on: December 16, 2019, 07:04:30 am »

Every quid pro quo (Chernobyl vs. Fukushima) has the same value as any other anecdotal evidence: entertaining. What matters is that state-run economies are inferior to market economies, globally and historically.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2084 on: December 16, 2019, 07:51:22 am »

And what makes you think stuff won’t happen under state ownership or control?

Well of course it will.

As Bernard said above, "The cost when something wrong occurs is hundreds of time more than the possible non optimality's resulting from gov operation vs private ones focused no profit."

Discussing this issue in the narrow terms of private vs public accountability is silly. We're not talking about a corner store. The cost of a massive failure would extend far beyond the capability of any private company to deal with, it's simply nonsense to think the government should not be involved. The question only ever is what is the optimum breakdown in responsibility. This is especially so because the vast bulk of research into modern nuclear power plants occurs at the level of applied research that is funded by us all to begin with. Those potential private companies building the plants never work in isolation.

You might want to dig into the work in nuclear waste management that the Department of Energy does in the US. Michael Lewis has written extensively on this, there are interviews and podcasts all over the interweb, not to mention written articles and books. Now THAT's one mother of an externality.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2085 on: December 16, 2019, 09:15:56 am »

Senate Minority leader, Chuck Schumer, ups the ante requesting that the Senate subpoena key policy makers from the Administration whose testimony will be key to establishing guilt or innocence.  If there is nothing to hide, there is nothing for President Trump to lose in providing these witnesses.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2086 on: December 16, 2019, 09:28:58 am »

Les made a hypothetical statement. Markets barely blinked on the announcement.


One has no idea what one or two individual holders might achieve; it doesn't have to be a mass movement.

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2087 on: December 16, 2019, 09:31:10 am »

Every quid pro quo (Chernobyl vs. Fukushima) has the same value as any other anecdotal evidence: entertaining. What matters is that state-run economies are inferior to market economies, globally and historically.

It's no use, Slobodan. As Santayana said (in slightly different words), "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." The evidence is all there: Russia, China, Venezuela, etc. versus the United States, Britain before WW II, Hong Kong under the British, etc. The simplest example, one that even leftists ought to be able to understand, is the history of the Plymouth Colony. In the beginning it was socialist -- "from each according to his ability; to each according to his need." Of course it wasn't long before ability shrank and need grew, and the colonists were starving. When it became apparent that socialism was killing them, William Bradford, the governor, told the members of the colony that from then on, what each produced would belong to him. With the help of the local natives, with whom they were trading, the colony began to flourish. The Wall Street Journal tells this story every Thanksgiving.

Leftists live in their own world, never bothering to determine whether or not the evidence supports their defective view of reality. No amount of argument and no showing of evidence will change their minds. If they're successful we'll all have to live through history's lessons all over again.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2088 on: December 16, 2019, 10:11:06 am »

But I don't believe that it has anything whatsoever to do with left or right: I believe it just makes sense on its own merits.

If you want to bring in a social perspective, then yes, I do have a belief in the fact that any country rich enough to have armies etc. etc. is also wealthy enough to show a little care and interest in its citizens, to the extent that the basics of life should be protected and pretty much guaranteed, for whomsoever the citizen might be.

I think an overarching health sevice, a worthwhile pension, power and water, and a basic level of food allowance should be incorporated into every person's state rights. I know people living with heating poverty who dread each and every winter. Further, I believe that public transport should be costed on what the average citizen can afford. It strikes me as crazy that many people must spend ten, fifteen thousand pounds a year on trains just to get to work. All that does is create distorted high salaries of which the earner sees a rather small portion because he has to spend so much on work travel. And which the employer has to pay in order to facilitate that worker arriving every day. It creates inflation and recruitment problems in the work market. So stupid is it that thousands of commuters can't afford to live in London because nurses, teachers, many other essential workers never do get salaries to match the cost of living where they work.

The system is out of equilibrium.

As for learning lessons from history: the greatest one to learn is that is comes and goes, that one side wins and then another, with none covering itself in glory. That wonderful autumn/winter of 2008 didn't come about because of socially run services: it came about because of the basic stupidity, greed and extreme shortsightednes of the many thousands of city guys making friggin' fortunes playing games with other people's money, passing the financial buck on to somebody else, and selling the innocents stuff they could never afford. Beautifully, none ended up in prison. I wonder why. That "swamp" will always exist because it's too tempting. It's heated, you see, and comes with beautiful water sprites. Draining incentives do not exist; rather do people seek membership.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2089 on: December 16, 2019, 10:18:49 am »

But I don't believe that it has anything whatsoever to do with left or right: I believe it just makes sense on its own merits.

Fully agree, but it is soooo convenient to play a blame game and point out other's shortcomings, without room for nuances.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2090 on: December 16, 2019, 10:32:51 am »

Why are you lefties all of a sudden running away from  that descriptor? Until very recently, you were so proud of your “progressiveness.” What happened? Corbyn lost in a landslide? Time to pretend your were always just “common sense”? 

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2091 on: December 16, 2019, 10:56:56 am »

...
Leftists live in their own world, never bothering to determine whether or not the evidence supports their defective view of reality. No amount of argument and no showing of evidence will change their minds. If they're successful we'll all have to live through history's lessons all over again.

Fortunately, we... who are all left from you... have the oracle RSL on our right side, to guide us through these dark times...
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2092 on: December 16, 2019, 11:01:21 am »

Why are you lefties all of a sudden running away from  that descriptor? Until very recently, you were so proud of your “progressiveness.” What happened? Corbyn lost in a landslide? Time to pretend your were always just “common sense”?

If you refer to me, Slobodan, you are mistaken: I have only ever voted Tory, and Maggie Thatcher was the last one worth squat. We peaked with her, as a party, and it's been a long slide downwards into unreality from then. All we have had since has been weak people playing the populist vote, in America as almost everywhere these days except Russia and NK; now ain't that a surprise!

As for Corbyn, even his own people couldn't bring themselves to vote for communism. Had he stood for socialism, then it might have ended up differently. I watched John McDonnell, his right-hand man, on the news: wearing a shirt and no tie, he looked shrunken and many, many years older than when last seen in his suit prior to the election. For both of them, the dream is over.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 03:07:39 pm by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2093 on: December 16, 2019, 11:31:17 am »

I think it's ironic that Soviet Russia learned the lesson of Communism and Europe learned nothing.

Unfortunately I think America hasn't learned anything either.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2094 on: December 16, 2019, 11:52:17 am »

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2095 on: December 16, 2019, 12:06:48 pm »

I think it's ironic that Soviet Russia learned the lesson of Communism and Europe learned nothing.

Unfortunately I think America hasn't learned anything either.
Well, from the perspective we have to learn from Russia... (?)
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Pieter Kers
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2096 on: December 16, 2019, 12:47:46 pm »

I think it's ironic that Soviet Russia learned the lesson of Communism and Europe learned nothing.

Unfortunately I think America hasn't learned anything either.

In its place hyperbole can be fun, but this is truly bizarre. Do you honestly think that European countries and the US are communist? Give it a rest.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2097 on: December 16, 2019, 02:34:11 pm »

In its place hyperbole can be fun, but this is truly bizarre. Do you honestly think that European countries and the US are communist? Give it a rest.
It's where we're going.   Just look at AOC, Sanders,  Warren.   The Democrat Left.   If the Dems take the senate and presidency especially if it's with someone on the left America is in for big changes.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2098 on: December 16, 2019, 04:14:51 pm »

It's where we're going.   Just look at AOC, Sanders,  Warren.   The Democrat Left.   If the Dems take the senate and presidency especially if it's with someone on the left America is in for big changes.

What utter hogwash. WTF are you talking about? Trump is the President and your Supreme Court is getting set to knock back women's body rights back 50 years.

Stop playing the phoney victim card, please, no one is buying it.
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2099 on: December 16, 2019, 04:16:03 pm »

Arguably worse in the grand scheme of things than Trump's clumsy attempt to smear Joe Biden, Trump and his family, many of whom hold roles in the administration, have, and always have had, multiple conflicts of interest that seem to clearly violate numerous ethics laws.

Specifically,

Quote
Conflicts of Interest - 18 U.S.C. § 208

This statute prohibits a Government employee from participating personally and substantially, on behalf of the Federal Government, in any particular matter in which he or she has a financial interest. In addition, the statute provides that the financial interests of certain other "persons" are imputed to the employee (that is, the interests are the same as if they were the employee's interests). These other persons include the employee's spouse, minor child, general partner, an organization in which he or she serves as an officer, trustee, partner or employee, and any person or organization with whom the employee is negotiating or has an arrangement concerning future employment. There are limited regulatory exemptions authorized by the Office of Government Ethics, an exception for certain financial interests arising solely out of Native American birthrights, and a very limited waiver authority.

Supplementation of Federal Salary Prohibited - 18 U.S.C. § 209

This statute prohibits a Government employee from receiving any salary, or any contribution to or supplementation of salary; or anything of value from a non-federal entity as compensation for services he or she is expected to perform as a Government employee.

 

Impartiality in Performing Official Duties - 5 C.F.R. § 2635.502

You must take appropriate steps to avoid any appearance of loss of impartiality in the performance of your official duties. Beyond the conflict of interest law discussed at 18 U.S.C. § 207, ethics regulations require all employees to recuse themselves from participating in an official matter if their impartiality would be questioned. The regulations identify three circumstances where employees should carefully consider whether their impartiality is subject to question: 1) where the financial interests of a member of the employee's household would be impacted; 2) if a party or party representative in an official matter has a "covered relationship" with the employee; and 3) any other time the employee believes his or her impartiality may be subject to question. The term "covered relationship" includes a wide variety of personal and business relationships that an employee or his family members may have with outside parties. Employees who find that a party or representative of a party is a person with whom the employee or a family member has a personal or outside-of-work/unofficial business relationship should consult with their ethics counselor before taking official action in a particular matter.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 04:21:39 pm by James Clark »
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