Pages: 1 ... 101 102 [103] 104 105 ... 196   Go Down

Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 61383 times)

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9467
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2040 on: December 14, 2019, 12:13:54 am »

Answer me this - it's a totally honest question, and I truly don't know the answer (and am genuinely curious).  Why is this such a problem for Biden, when half of Trump's campaign team was neck-deep in Russian influence (forget about "collusion" - I'm just talking about acknowledged, publicly know work like what Manafort was doing)?  And why does Hillary's email issue matter, when it's widely acknowledged that Trump, Pompeo, Sondland etc. have been continuously loose with communications security protocols?

Basically, I don't think anyone denies that Trump (and let's restrict it to these two issues for the sake of clarity) and his team do everything Hunter Biden is being accused of with regard to foreign entanglements, and everything HRC was accused of ("lock her up!!!") on a more frequent and less secure basis.

So why is this such a killer for Biden/Hillary but a nonissue for Trump?
James that's a great question.  Let me answer it with a question.   Why can the Democrats spend 2 1/2 years looking to impeach the president accusing him and his sons of using his office fir monetary gain,  without proof or  charges other than their own,  yet Trump can't play the same political games going after Democrat political leaders like Biden and his son who appear to have use Biden's office for monetary gain? At worse, this is all political hijinks.  Not something we impeach presidents or vice presidents for.   

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4073
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2041 on: December 14, 2019, 07:44:42 am »

Answer me this - it's a totally honest question, and I truly don't know the answer (and am genuinely curious).  Why is this such a problem for Biden, when half of Trump's campaign team was neck-deep in Russian influence (forget about "collusion" - I'm just talking about acknowledged, publicly know work like what Manafort was doing)?  And why does Hillary's email issue matter, when it's widely acknowledged that Trump, Pompeo, Sondland etc. have been continuously loose with communications security protocols?

Basically, I don't think anyone denies that Trump (and let's restrict it to these two issues for the sake of clarity) and his team do everything Hunter Biden is being accused of with regard to foreign entanglements, and everything HRC was accused of ("lock her up!!!") on a more frequent and less secure basis.

So why is this such a killer for Biden/Hillary but a nonissue for Trump?

With Biden, I would say it is an issue because Hunter was trying to increase his wealth with these positions by selling access.  Joe Biden may of or may of not have been directly aware of Hunter's true purpose with these positions, but the idea Joe Biden never spoke to Hunter about his positions or his work is laughable.  There is no decent father in the world that would not talk to his son about his work, especially if he is pulling in over half a million a year.  So this starts to seem more like a scandal because it is obvious Joe Biden is not being 100% truthful.  Until he owns up to it and a comes clean, it will continue to be an issue.   

The Hillary email issue would not have been a issue if she just owned up to it and apologized as well.  For months she insisted she did nothing wrong, but the law clearly stated otherwise.  Then to try and hide any wrong doing, she had her servers scrubbed clean and had her staff destroy cell phones with hammers (because you know, this is how everyone gets rid of their old cell phones).  That is what made it an issue.  It could have been done and over with in February, but her denials stretched it out. 

With the Trump team's influence with Russia, Obama spent years saying we need better relations with Russia and ostracized Romney for suggesting otherwise.  Obama normalized relations with Russia, and normalized the idea of better relations to the country, and the only thing that really changed that was the Ukraine issue.  The only problem for those who are now screaming the anti-Russia messaging is that no one in the USA really cares about Ukraine, and, since the left has been so anti-Trump and Trump is also pro-Russia, it is coming off as hypocrisy. People really want better relations with Russia, even those on the right, and if Ukraine was invaded tomorrow, that would not change. 

Plus, none of the illegal actions anyone on the Trump team was involved in actually involved Trump.  Back when the Katie Hill scandal broke, I listened to Ben Shapiro say nothing sticks to a politician like a sex scandal because it is impossible for it to be someone else's fault.  So long as there is a plausible way to shift blame to someone else, any politician from either side will be fine once it blows over.  This philosophy applies to these three as well.  Biden could save himself, but he would need to throw Hunter under the bus (in a nice way).  None of the Trump teams scandals involved Trump.  The Hillary email was impossible to shake because only Hillary could be blamed. 

Insofar as the loose with communications security protocols team Trump seems to be doing, it is not 100% certain they are being loose.  And if it was, Trump would probably not only own up to it, but act like it's no big deal.  Plus the entire country would expect this anyway, so it is already baked into the cake.  Just look at his poll numbers; a surging economy and he is in the 40s.  Lots of issues with Trump are already baked into the cake at this point.  At the end of the day, I dont think the public is as concerned about security issues with communications between government leaders, especially since we have become so accustomed to devices.  Trump or Hillary being loose is not perceived as a big deal, but Hillary dragging it out was a screw up. 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 07:59:35 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8816
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2042 on: December 14, 2019, 08:26:39 am »

James that's a great question.  Let me answer it with a question.

No, why not answer that great question with an answer?

Quote
Why can the Democrats spend 2 1/2 years looking to impeach the president accusing him and his sons of using his office fir monetary gain, [...]

Wrong. Democrats didn't but, unlike the Republicans (?), instead they did their sworn duty, i.e. to protect the constitution. The investigations were about foreign meddling in the 2016  elections, and people were expelled or went to jail.

What candidate Trump at the time did or did not do, would not be ground for impeachment (because he was not the President yet).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 08:33:09 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2043 on: December 14, 2019, 09:45:07 am »

... The investigations were about foreign meddling in the 2016  elections, and people were expelled or went to jail...

On unrelated charges.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8816
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2044 on: December 14, 2019, 10:15:11 am »

On unrelated charges.

On December 29, 2016, Thirty-five Russian diplomats were declared 'personae non gratae' by the United States in response to the alleged Kremlin-backed interference in the 2016 United States presidential election.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/29/obama-expels-35-russian-diplomats-election-hacking-row/

And then there were :
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/mar/25/who-has-already-been-indicted-russia-investigation/
Michael Flynn: Flynn was a campaign adviser to Trump and then briefly his national security adviser. In November 2017 Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his discussions with the Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the presidential transition. Flynn and Kislyak had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia for election meddling.
George Papadopoulos: A campaign adviser on foreign policy, Papadopoulos pleaded guilty in October 2017 to lying to the FBI about his efforts to put the Trump campaign in contact with Moscow.
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14369
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2045 on: December 14, 2019, 11:15:01 am »

I really appreciate this thread. If I start feeling down for any reason I can read the thread and roll on the floor laughing.

I can tell almost exactly what y'all are reading. I can't tell what the publications are, but I can tell what kind of reporters and editorial writers the publications have. Bottom line: what you're reading is no different from the crap that gets thrown around on U.S. publications like the Washington Post and Associated Press. It's all left-wing speculation and propaganda, pretending to be news and reportage. I understand that a lot of people actually believe that stuff, but the real revelations are things like the state of the U.S. economy, and the fact that the unemployment rate for minorities is lower than it's ever been. Things like that are facts. What you're reading is opinion. But you accept it as fact. That's called "gullibility."
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8816
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2046 on: December 14, 2019, 11:25:13 am »

I understand that a lot of people actually believe that stuff, but the real revelations are things like the state of the U.S. economy, and the fact that the unemployment rate for minorities is lower than it's ever been.

Could it be that people needing more than 1 job to make ends meet has someting to do with that?

And could it be that running up the National deficit allows more "money" to be available?.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-budget/u-s-governments-annual-budget-deficit-largest-since-2012-idUSKBN1X426T
Quote
It is the first time since the early 1980s that the budget gap has widened over four consecutive years. The figures reflect the second full budget year under U.S. President Donald Trump, a Republican, and come at a time when the country has an expanding tax base with moderate economic growth and an unemployment rate currently near a 50-year low.
[...]
Quote
The annual budget deficit had been reduced to $585 billion by the end of former President Barack Obama’s second term in 2016 and Republicans in Congress during that time criticized Obama, a Democrat, for not reducing it further.

Since then, the budget deficit has jumped due in part to the Republican’s overhaul of the tax system, which in the short term reduced revenues, and an increase in military spending. By the end of fiscal 2019, corporate tax payments were up 5%. Customs duties, which have been boosted by the Trump administration’s levying of tariffs on China and others, were up 70% year-on-year to a record high.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 11:32:57 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14369
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2047 on: December 14, 2019, 11:31:08 am »

As Casey Stengel said, Bart, "You could look it up."
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8816
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2048 on: December 14, 2019, 11:34:55 am »

As Casey Stengel said, Bart, "You could look it up."

It beats fact free delusions.
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9467
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2049 on: December 14, 2019, 11:35:11 am »

No, why not answer that great question with an answer?

Wrong. Democrats didn't but, unlike the Republicans (?), instead they did their sworn duty, i.e. to protect the constitution. The investigations were about foreign meddling in the 2016  elections, and people were expelled or went to jail.

What candidate Trump at the time did or did not do, would not be ground for impeachment (because he was not the President yet).

The Democrats have been trying to impeach Trump since inauguration day in January 2017.  That's what Pelosi said yesterday that she's been working at it "for 2 1/2 years". They spent the first 2 years with the Russia collussion charge phony as it was as proven by Mueller.   Emoluments, using his kids to get rich,  tax returns,  obstruction,  etc etc.   A witch hunt. 

By the way the constitution also allows impeachment for the crimes specified within it regardless of when the president did them.  If he took a bribe let's say from the Netherlands for favored trade protection while he was running,  that would be grounds for impeachment.  Of course,  only the Democrats would believe that's true. 😀

« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 11:38:27 am by Alan Klein »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2050 on: December 14, 2019, 01:14:52 pm »

Bart,

“Lying to the FBI” is a face-saving, last-resort charge, after spending millions of dollars trying to find a crime and having nothing to show for it. If there was a crime they lied about, they would have been charged with that crime,  not for lying about it.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13543
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2052 on: December 14, 2019, 04:44:08 pm »

I really appreciate this thread. If I start feeling down for any reason I can read the thread and roll on the floor laughing.

I can tell almost exactly what y'all are reading. I can't tell what the publications are, but I can tell what kind of reporters and editorial writers the publications have. Bottom line: what you're reading is no different from the crap that gets thrown around on U.S. publications lik

e the Washington Post and Associated Press. It's all left-wing speculation and propaganda, pretending to be news and reportage. I understand that a lot of people actually believe that stuff, but the real revelations are things like the state of the U.S. economy, and the fact that the unemployment rate for minorities is lower than it's ever been. Things like that are facts. What you're reading is opinion. But you accept it as fact. That's called "gullibility."

Russ,

You are a perfectly trained candidate for a totalitarian state, congratulations.

Any piece of information not supporting the official state speech of the great leader you blindly support is categorized by you as “propaganda from the enemies of the state”.

Talking no differently than the good comrades in early communist Russia.

And yes... I can hear you think "we are different, we are the good guys"... but they also were 100% sure they were in a situation totally different from earlier totalitarian attempts... ;)

You are now actively supporting a regime using techniques akin to the ones you so bravely fought with your fighter jets over the densed jungles of Asia. As least do you now understand them better than ever before I guess.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 06:24:55 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13543
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2053 on: December 14, 2019, 06:16:32 pm »

From Wiki, "A May 2012 United Nations committee report stated that none of the six Fukushima workers who had died since the tsunami had died from radiation exposure. According to a 2012 Yomiuri Shimbun survey, 573 deaths have been certified as "disaster-related" by 13 municipalities affected by the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

 It was the largest nuclear disaster since the Chernobyl disaster of 1986,[10] and the radiation released exceeded official safety guidelines. Despite this, there were no deaths caused by acute radiation syndrome. Given the uncertain health effects of low-dose radiation, cancer deaths cannot be ruled out.[11] However, studies by the World Health Organisation and Tokyo University have shown that no discernible increase in the rate of cancer deaths is expected." 

Joe,

This is not the point you were making to which I answered.

You may not be realizing this, but the twisted logic to which you have to conform to keep defending Trump at any cost is apparently infecting you and impacting your ability to think straight and to have a balanced conversation on other topics also. A balanced conversation being one in which you admit when you are wrong and don't start with a premise that you know better than the person you are speaking with on any topic just because you are right by definition (i.e. Trump is innocent by definition because it's a political plot against him).

On Fukushima, there are several things:
- no, death were not caused by mass hysteria
- yes, all the evacuations were totally needed, and I personally think that more people should have been evacuated in a smarter way
- yes, the official number of casualties resulting from radiation is very low, but whether that is the true situation is object to serious debate and there are many contrary sources in Japan claiming that the actual numbers are much higher
- no it doesn't mean I am personally against nuclear as a key energy source but it has to be done the right way:

1. Without profit as the main driving motivation to operate the plants, we have seen how it has led to structural under-investment in maintenance and updates in Japan with major safety risks
2. Leveraging the best available technology, which is probably the French 3rd generation EPR power plants although these have proven very costly and difficult to manufacture/build well
3. With information shared in a totally transparent way to citizens

And why does it always have to be state-run?  It is not like state run entities are incapable of disaster.  Chernobyl was state run.  And since when were companies not being held accountable?  The last major energy screw up in the USA was the BP oil spill.  They were ordered to pay out $5.5B; that sounds like a pretty serious dose of accountability. 

And are government run entities always held accountable?

The key issue with private ownership of Nuclear reactors is three-fold:
- As mentioned above, it leads to prioritizing profit over safety. Fukushima is a very clear example of this,
- Private companies simply do not have the financial means to pay the actual cost of the consequences of a Fukushima like event, not event 10% of it. This means that the huge societal cost is not covered by anyone. People lose their homes and memories and don't get compensated for it although the private entity was making money on their back for years thanks to an exclusive license to operate granted by the people through the government. I am sure you understand how unbalanced this is,
- Private entities are intrinsically less transparent.

Cheers,
Bernard

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2054 on: December 14, 2019, 07:02:55 pm »

Oh, for God’s sake! This glorification of state-run things!? Are you serious?

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3294
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2055 on: December 14, 2019, 07:11:34 pm »

Gods ?Sake?
Is that your drive.
Is there a religious corner?
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13543
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2056 on: December 14, 2019, 07:24:18 pm »

Oh, for God’s sake! This glorification of state-run things!? Are you serious?

Yes, I am totally serious.

In case you are not aware state runs your beloved US military.

The State is nothing but the citizens. The State is you.

Only years long brain washing of the kind you apparently like to submit yourself to has resulted in this unbelievable twist of logic by which citizens like to give away their own power (the power of the State representing them) to entities on which they have no control whatsoever (private corporations).

Now, I understand you not trusting a State run by Trump, we agree here. But there will be better days.

I am obviously not saying that everything should be run by the State, nor that private entrepreneurship is evil (on the contrary, I am a total believer in the power of the free market), but it may be that such level of complexity is hard to grasp? Everything must be whole or nothing in your world right?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 10:33:02 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2057 on: December 14, 2019, 07:37:27 pm »

... The State is nothing but the citizens. The State is you...

Comrade Bernard, you are making Lenin real proud.

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13543
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2058 on: December 14, 2019, 07:39:53 pm »

Comrade Bernard, you are making Lenin real proud.

Again, tell the US soldiers that they have been tricked in joining a communist plot.

And tell yourself why public school for all is such a terrible concept. Much better to let rich kids go to private schools and take over dad’s company right? Why care about equal opportunities?

Are you familiar with the concept of boomerang? This thing that comes back to hit you.

When you turn a possibly reasonable conversation about the value of enforcing state control for Nuclear operators into a joke by turning into a black & white thing, you are both making a fool of yourself and making communication impossible. You are in fact removing yourself from civilization, defined by speech.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 07:55:57 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2370
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2059 on: December 14, 2019, 09:45:24 pm »

Comrade Bernard, you are making Lenin real proud.

Reverse Godwin again!

You're too predictable.
Logged
--
Robert
Pages: 1 ... 101 102 [103] 104 105 ... 196   Go Up