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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 321096 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1420 on: November 12, 2019, 06:26:11 pm »

You got to love it when foreigners want so desperately to impeach the President of the United States.

You've got to love it when the only answer left is to categorize your interlocutor as a foreigner...

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1421 on: November 12, 2019, 07:41:49 pm »

You've got to love it when the only answer left is to categorize your interlocutor as a foreigner...

Cheers,
Bernard

It seems strange to me as well that foreigners get so involved as if they live here.  What difference does it make to you if our president builds a wall, doesn;t build a wall?  raises taxes, doesn;t raise taxes? Asks Ukraine to investigate?  Doesn't ask Ukraine to investigate?  To argue so vociferously for his impeachment seems over the top even for Democrats.  But foreigners?  Don't you have better things to do? 

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1422 on: November 12, 2019, 07:50:36 pm »

It seems strange to me as well that foreigners get so involved as if they live here.  What difference does it make to you if our president builds a wall, doesn;t build a wall?  raises taxes, doesn;t raise taxes? Asks Ukraine to investigate?  Doesn't ask Ukraine to investigate?  To argue so vociferously for his impeachment seems over the top even for Democrats.  But foreigners?  Don't you have better things to do?
If the USA would be dominant in the world as the Jamestown, we would not be so interested;
However this president reversed a lot of treaties that were only some years old and that effect us and many other countries, making the US not trustworthy.

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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1423 on: November 12, 2019, 08:00:32 pm »

It seems strange to me as well that foreigners get so involved as if they live here. 

Unfortunately, Trump as a president affects also other countries, what was not the case when he ran the Apprentice TV show.
In addition, the media in all countries devote more space to Trump than to Real Madrid C.F. or Madonna whose antiques and scandals can't be compared to Trump's.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1424 on: November 12, 2019, 08:01:05 pm »

If the USA would be dominant in the world as the Jamestown, we would not be so interested;
However this president reversed a lot of treaties that were only some years old and that effect us and many other countries, making the US not trustworthy.



So your interest in impeaching the president is not to help Americans or America but to help your own country and your own people.  That I can understand.  Thanks for your honesty. 

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1425 on: November 12, 2019, 09:14:27 pm »

So your interest in impeaching the president is not to help Americans or America but to help your own country and your own people.  That I can understand.  Thanks for your honesty.

It's really frustrating when my fellow countrymen insist on acting like international relations are a zero-sum game.  My apologies to my friends in the EU, Central, and South America, and beyond.  :-[
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1426 on: November 12, 2019, 09:30:10 pm »

It's really frustrating when my fellow countrymen insist on acting like international relations are a zero-sum game.  My apologies to my friends in the EU, Central, and South America, and beyond.  :-[

An example of Democrats colluding with foreigners ;)

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1427 on: November 12, 2019, 09:31:18 pm »

It's really frustrating when my fellow countrymen insist on acting like international relations are a zero-sum game.  My apologies to my friends in the EU, Central, and South America, and beyond.  :-[
The problem with a lot of Americans, they think because foreigners say they don't like Trump, that they are also on America's side and not their own country's side.  I don't fault them for what they say.  I would expect nothing less for a patriot to support his own country's interest.  But don't be fooled as everyone supports their own interests. 

Europeans opposed Trump for having to meet the 2% NATO defense spending requirement because they preferred to use that money for their social programs.  Let America spend it's social money on defending them.  Same with NATO itself.  Go down the list: tariffs cost foreign countries exports and hurt their economy.  Trump eliminating NAFTA hurt Canadians and Mexicans and gave some advantages to Americans.   America spending 750 billion on defense saves countries around the world billions in their own expenditures.  Paris Accord hurt America and helped China especially as well as Europeans.  American pulling out of Iran hurt European business interests there.   Fracking in America makes America less dependent on Middle East oil creating a possibility America won;t defend European interests there.  Why do you think Europe wants us to keep our forces all over the ME?
 To help the Kurds who they abandoned 100 years ago and have been screwing them since then? 

Trump has put America first.  Other countries expect America to put them first as we've been doing for decades.  So whenever you hear a non-American complain about Trump or America, follow their security interests and follow the money.  And see where their bread is buttered.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1428 on: November 12, 2019, 09:31:43 pm »

...making the US not trustworthy...

Turning Europe in a caliphate makes you not trustworthy.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1429 on: November 12, 2019, 09:43:17 pm »

If the USA would be dominant in the world as the Jamestown, we would not be so interested;
However this president reversed a lot of treaties that were only some years old and that effect us and many other countries, making the US not trustworthy.


The Netherlands isn't trustworthy.  Your country promised to spend 2% of your GDP on defense.  You're only spending 1.35% in 2018.  Why should Americans spend our social funding on defending your country?  Why don;t you keep your word.  That's what friends do.
https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/14/nato-pledge-which-european-countries-spend-over-2-of-gdp-on-defence
 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1430 on: November 12, 2019, 09:43:35 pm »

It seems strange to me as well that foreigners get so involved as if they live here.  What difference does it make to you if our president builds a wall, doesn;t build a wall?  raises taxes, doesn;t raise taxes? Asks Ukraine to investigate?  Doesn't ask Ukraine to investigate?  To argue so vociferously for his impeachment seems over the top even for Democrats.  But foreigners?  Don't you have better things to do?

It's an international web site and the topic was started so people joined in. If you don't want to hear the opinions of non-Americans, you're in the wrong forum.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1431 on: November 12, 2019, 09:44:43 pm »

Is the final impeachment vote (in the Senate, is it?) a secret ballot?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1432 on: November 12, 2019, 09:45:49 pm »

It's an international web site and the topic was started so people joined in. If you don't want to hear the opinions of non-Americans, you're in the wrong forum.
They can say what they like as can I.  I'm cautioning Americans to take what they say with a grain of salt. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1433 on: November 12, 2019, 09:53:41 pm »

Is the final impeachment vote (in the Senate, is it?) a secret ballot?
How could you prove what the results were if it's secret?  I suppose that Democrat Nancy Pelosi can say there were enough votes to impeach by taking an oral vote. "All in favor say "aye".  Etc.  Then say there were enough votes.

But that couldn't happen in the senate.  In the trial in the senate at least, the Constitution requires the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court to preside over the trial, not the Senate leader.  That isn't the case in the House for the impeachment.  So he would be the one insisting on an actual count just as they would do in a criminal trial with a jury.  Each senator will have to personally vote one way or the other or obstain. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1434 on: November 12, 2019, 10:02:06 pm »

How could you prove what the results were if it's secret? 

What?
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Chris Kern

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1435 on: November 12, 2019, 10:03:19 pm »

Is the final impeachment vote (in the Senate, is it?) a secret ballot?

No, it is public, with each senator's vote ("yea" or "nay") separately recorded.

Quote
On the final question whether the impeachment is sustained, the yeas and nays shall be taken on each article of impeachment separately; and if the impeachment shall not, upon any of the articles presented, be sustained by the votes of two-thirds of the Members present, a judgment of acquittal shall be entered; but if the person impeached shall be convicted upon any such article by the votes of two-thirds of the Members present, the Senate shall proceed to the consideration of such other matters as may be determined to be appropriate prior to pronouncing judgment. Upon pronouncing judgement, a certified copy of such judgment shall be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State. A motion to reconsider the vote by which any article of impeachment is sustained or rejected shall not be in order.

Rules of Procedure and Practice in the Senate when Sitting on Impeachment Trials, XXIII
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:06:25 pm by Chris Kern »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1436 on: November 12, 2019, 10:15:20 pm »

No, it is public, with each senator's vote ("yea" or "nay") separately recorded.

Quote
On the final question whether the impeachment is sustained, the yeas and nays shall be taken on each article of impeachment separately; and if the impeachment shall not, upon any of the articles presented, be sustained by the votes of two-thirds of the Members present, a judgment of acquittal shall be entered; but if the person impeached shall be convicted upon any such article by the votes of two-thirds of the Members present, the Senate shall proceed to the consideration of such other matters as may be determined to be appropriate prior to pronouncing judgment. Upon pronouncing judgement, a certified copy of such judgment shall be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State. A motion to reconsider the vote by which any article of impeachment is sustained or rejected shall not be in order.

Rules of Procedure and Practice in the Senate when Sitting on Impeachment Trials, XXIII


CHris, I only skimmed the rules.  Could the Senate, theoretically, change their own rules and allow a secret vote?

More importantly, I didn't see very much the the Chief Justice does.  It seems that the presiding officer (who's that, McConnell), pretty much can set a lot of the rules as to who is called to testify, especially since the Republican have a majority.  Is this correct or am I misreading the rules?

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1437 on: November 12, 2019, 10:16:49 pm »

An example of Democrats colluding with foreigners ;)

As soon as one of them sends me a check, I’ll disclose it ;)
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Chris Kern

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1438 on: November 12, 2019, 10:25:08 pm »

I didn't see very much the the Chief Justice does.  It seems that the presiding officer (who's that, McConnell), pretty much can set a lot of the rules as to who is called to testify, especially since the Republican have a majority.  Is this correct or am I misreading the rules?

The chief justice serves as the presiding officer of the Senate during the impeachment of a president or vice president.  The presiding officer makes decisions regarding the admissibility of evidence, although the senators may vote to overturn those decisions.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1439 on: November 12, 2019, 10:27:37 pm »

The chief justice serves as the presiding officer of the Senate during the impeachment of a president or vice president.  The presiding officer makes decisions regarding the admissibility of evidence, although the senators may vote to overturn those decisions.
So if the CHief Justice rules that calling Hunter Biden is not acceptable, then the Republican led Senate could overrule him and demand that he be called to testify? 
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