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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 137973 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1400 on: November 11, 2019, 11:25:41 pm »

Being involved is not the same as being given fair treatment. 

As Alan said, it is a farce.  Schiff is not allowing wintnesses to be called by the Republicans, including the whistle blower whom Schiff was very excited about having testify before it came to light that his staff met with him 18 days before filing the report.  Additionally, Schiff has been coaching witnesses and censoring Republican questions. 

It is not a fair process by any stretch. 

The other Alan is right though on his opinion of it not being the actual trial.  If it gets that far, which I doubt it will since it will coming crashing down on the Dems, Republicans will be given a fair trial.  However, I doubt it reaches that far.  In order to prove it is an impeachable offense, they need to prove intent to that it was for the 2020 election, not the continuing 2016 election corruption investigation, which will be impossible to do.  So if it goes to the Senate, Trump wins and comes out strong, then the Dems loose. 

With this, it is hit or miss what happens.  However, with all of the moderates coming into the race in the Dems, and Biden's candidacy shot, Warren looks like the winner, and then the looser.  In recent polling by the NYTs, she looses in all of the swing states to Trump, even with the impeachment noise. 

All the Dems had to do was not go crazy, and on a local level that is what they did and won, but on the national level they have totally lost their minds.

The process is following the rules set forth by Republicans for such cases. No more, no less. At least we have now cleared the lies that Republicans were not involved. We are progressing towards an objective understanding of the situation. ;)

The expectation that it should be "fair" is misleading if "fair" means that Republicans should be allowed to accuse Democrats not currently in office of whatever they feel like accusing them of (including getting to testify on unrelated matter to spread misinformation). The expectation for symmetry is not aligned with the nature of the situation at hand. Previous impeachment processes were no more symmetric, and rightfully so.

Why so? Because the focus of this process is the current President of the US, nothing else. Your logic is circular in that it uses a political ploy as an hypothesis to drive the conclusion that it's a political ploy. The snake is biting its own tail.

Per this wicked logic, a raper should be allowed to accuse his victim of stealing a short dress that made her appealing... whether she did it or not (she in fact bought the dress). And they both should be given equal rights.

As far as Democrats going crazy, let me turn this the other way around. I find it crazy that Republicans senators support a clear violation of the constitution by a Republican President. This is partisanship at its worse where politics take precedence about the constitution. Democrats did their job, the whistle blower (whether he is Republican or not) did his job. The Republicans senators aren't doing their at all.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1401 on: November 11, 2019, 11:41:47 pm »

The process is following the rules set forth by Republicans for such cases. No more, no less. At least we have now cleared the lies that Republicans were not involved. We are progressing towards an objective understanding of the situation. ;)

The expectation that it should be "fair" is misleading if "fair" means that Republicans should be allowed to accuse Democrats not currently in office of whatever they feel like accusing them of (including getting to testify on unrelated matter to spread misinformation). The expectation for symmetry is not aligned with the nature of the situation at hand. Previous impeachment processes were no more symmetric, and rightfully so.

Why so? Because the focus of this process is the current President of the US, nothing else. Your logic is circular in that it uses a political ploy as an hypothesis to drive the conclusion that it's a political ploy. The snake is biting its own tail.

Per this wicked logic, a raper should be allowed to accuse his victim of stealing a short dress that made her appealing... whether she did it or not (she in fact bought the dress). And they both should be given equal rights.

As far as Democrats going crazy, let me turn this the other way around. I find it crazy that Republicans senators support a clear violation of the constitution by a Republican President. This is partisanship at its worse where politics take precedence about the constitution. Democrats did their job, the whistle blower (whether he is Republican or not) did his job. The Republicans senators aren't doing their at all.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, any person over 13 years old realizes that the Biden's look like they were on the take.  Getting $50,000 a month for a no-show job smells fishy. It warranted an investigation.  His supporters are going to fade away.  Apparently Bloomberg came to that conclusion and decided to run in Biden's stead.  And now another person is stepping up to the plate to take Biden;s place as well as the liberal/centrist, Deval Patrick, former governor of Massachusetts.  Like I said, Biden's toast.  I suspect that Democrat bigwigs behind the scene have approached Patrick to urge him to run seeing no way they can win with Biden.

Frankly, Trump might have been better off leaving things as they were as it may have been easier to run against a confused Biden than someone who has all their faculties. Anyway, it's getting very interesting. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/us/politics/deval-patrick-2020-president.html

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1402 on: November 11, 2019, 11:48:42 pm »

Let me modify my last post.  Words added in bold at end of sentence: "... I suspect that Democrat bigwigs behind the scene have approached Patrick to urge him to run seeing no way they can win with Biden...,Warren, Sanders,  Buttgieg and all other current nominees."

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1403 on: November 12, 2019, 12:14:03 am »

Doesn't the Democratic party still have superdelegates? I think they can be used if there isn't a majority vote in the first or second ballet during the convention.  That will open the nomination to deal making like the good old, smoke-filled back-room days.  Hillary or someone who they could see beating Trump.

Which brings up the polls.   Despite all the Democrat candidates showing they can beat Trump in the election, by wide margins, the big wigs in the party don't really believe their own polls.  Trump's got them spooked. Why else would Bloomberg and Patrick throw their hat in the ring?  They'll be others.

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1404 on: November 12, 2019, 12:28:50 am »

Let me modify my last post.  Words added in bold at end of sentence: "... I suspect that Democrat bigwigs behind the scene have approached Patrick to urge him to run seeing no way they can win with Biden...,Warren, Sanders,  Buttgieg and all other current nominees."

Alan,

do you know that you can modify your existing post directly? (without adding a new post). Use the Modify option (just above your original post on the right side). In situations like this, it's easier to have all the information in one post, rather than trying to combine it mentally from two different places.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1405 on: November 12, 2019, 12:34:50 am »

Alan,

do you know that you can modify your existing post directly? (without adding a new post). Use the Modify option (just above your original post on the right side). In situations like this, it's easier to have all the information in one post, rather than trying to combine it mentally from two different places.
Les, I was aware and usually use Modify to correct spelling and other grammatical errors.  But since I was adding something of substance, I thought it better to add another post.  The original post is only mailed out once, I believe.  Modified posts are not mailed a second time.  So if people are reading only their emails, they would miss this kind of a change.  Thanks.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1406 on: November 12, 2019, 12:35:52 am »

PS   What are you doing up so late?  I hope I'm not keep you from getting some sleep. :)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1407 on: November 12, 2019, 01:45:25 am »

Bernard, any person over 13 years old realizes that the Biden's look like they were on the take.  Getting $50,000 a month for a no-show job smells fishy. It warranted an investigation.  His supporters are going to fade away.  Apparently Bloomberg came to that conclusion and decided to run in Biden's stead.  And now another person is stepping up to the plate to take Biden;s place as well as the liberal/centrist, Deval Patrick, former governor of Massachusetts.  Like I said, Biden's toast.  I suspect that Democrat bigwigs behind the scene have approached Patrick to urge him to run seeing no way they can win with Biden.

As usual, you have not answered any of the points made.

I'll act differently and answer yours.

Perhaps, but this is totally unrelated to the impeachment investigation.

Even if Biden had killed 100 people with chopsticks, Trump should still be impeached for have done what he has done.

Cheers,
Bernard

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1408 on: November 12, 2019, 02:04:16 am »

PS   What are you doing up so late?  I hope I'm not keep you from getting some sleep. :)
No, I was just going for my midnight walk. Fresh snow, crunching under your feet, feels like early Christmas.
We got in two days at least 6 inches of snow, must be due to the extreme changes in weather patterns.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1409 on: November 12, 2019, 06:49:55 am »

The process is following the rules set forth by Republicans for such cases. No more, no less. At least we have now cleared the lies that Republicans were not involved. We are progressing towards an objective understanding of the situation. ;)

The expectation that it should be "fair" is misleading if "fair" means that Republicans should be allowed to accuse Democrats not currently in office of whatever they feel like accusing them of (including getting to testify on unrelated matter to spread misinformation). The expectation for symmetry is not aligned with the nature of the situation at hand. Previous impeachment processes were no more symmetric, and rightfully so.

Why so? Because the focus of this process is the current President of the US, nothing else. Your logic is circular in that it uses a political ploy as an hypothesis to drive the conclusion that it's a political ploy. The snake is biting its own tail.

Per this wicked logic, a raper should be allowed to accuse his victim of stealing a short dress that made her appealing... whether she did it or not (she in fact bought the dress). And they both should be given equal rights.

As far as Democrats going crazy, let me turn this the other way around. I find it crazy that Republicans senators support a clear violation of the constitution by a Republican President. This is partisanship at its worse where politics take precedence about the constitution. Democrats did their job, the whistle blower (whether he is Republican or not) did his job. The Republicans senators aren't doing their at all.

+1
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1410 on: November 12, 2019, 06:53:39 am »

Frankly, Trump might have been better off leaving things as they were as it may have been easier to run against a confused Biden than someone who has all their faculties.

I agree that it's another miscalculation on Trumps part. Trying to eliminate the easiest counterpart to beat, is plain stupid. But that's what you get from acting on impulse ...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1411 on: November 12, 2019, 10:01:14 am »

You got to love it when foreigners want so desperately to impeach the President of the United States.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1412 on: November 12, 2019, 10:10:07 am »

You got to love it when foreigners want so desperately to impeach the President of the United States.

Huh? Only Congres plus the Senate can impeach the US president.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1413 on: November 12, 2019, 10:10:53 am »

You got to love it when foreigners want so desperately to impeach the President of the United States.

It's a pretty harmless sport.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1414 on: November 12, 2019, 10:54:02 am »

It's a pretty harmless sport.

If only the same could be said about US foreign policy.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1415 on: November 12, 2019, 12:29:03 pm »

The process is following the rules set forth by Republicans for such cases. No more, no less. At least we have now cleared the lies that Republicans were not involved. We are progressing towards an objective understanding of the situation. ;)

The expectation that it should be "fair" is misleading if "fair" means that Republicans should be allowed to accuse Democrats not currently in office of whatever they feel like accusing them of (including getting to testify on unrelated matter to spread misinformation). The expectation for symmetry is not aligned with the nature of the situation at hand. Previous impeachment processes were no more symmetric, and rightfully so.

Why so? Because the focus of this process is the current President of the US, nothing else. Your logic is circular in that it uses a political ploy as an hypothesis to drive the conclusion that it's a political ploy. The snake is biting its own tail.

Per this wicked logic, a raper should be allowed to accuse his victim of stealing a short dress that made her appealing... whether she did it or not (she in fact bought the dress). And they both should be given equal rights.

As far as Democrats going crazy, let me turn this the other way around. I find it crazy that Republicans senators support a clear violation of the constitution by a Republican President. This is partisanship at its worse where politics take precedence about the constitution. Democrats did their job, the whistle blower (whether he is Republican or not) did his job. The Republicans senators aren't doing their at all.

Cheers,
Bernard

When I said crazy, I was not talking about the impeachment thing.  I was talking about policies, which is what people actually vote on. 

Examples of crazy:

Wanting to kick 150M people off of their current health insurance, most of whom like it, just to help a few million without insurance.

Assuming a Medicare for all plan will work wonders and get people the procedures they need while ignoring the fact that Medicare has a denial rate higher then any other private insurer.  On top of that, Medicare pays less then what it cost for most procedures (made up for by private insurance), which would lead to many healthcare businesses to go bunk. 

Implementing a wealth tax, which has been shown in the past to fail miserably in countries where it was implemented (like France). 

Legalizing homelessness, refusing to prosecute public urination and defecation (the newly elected DA of San Fran literally came out this week and announce he would not prosecute any quality of life crimes such as this), while ignoring it creates a public health hazard.  Lets make Cholera & Typhoid great again!

(Keeps on getting better everyday in CA! A Bucket of Hot Diarrhea Was Randomly Poured on a Woman by a Homeless Man)

Slavery Repatriations, along with Native American Repatriations if Warren gets the ticket. 

Forcing institutions to recognize transgender rights to the point where it makes no sense, such as allowing genetic men to compete in women's sports even though it is a clear unfair advantage, or allowing people to choose the prison they want to go to while ignoring the fact that male rapists might claim to be a woman to get access to more victims in the women's prison.  (This has happened in the UK by the way; also every single Dem at the CNN LGBTQ town hall supported this idea.) 

Wanting to decriminalize all illegal border crossings, essentially creating an open border. 

The Green New Deal and the religious backing of wind and solar power, even though it has been shown to be a very horrible power source that is incredibly expenses, while ignoring nuclear power. 

Requiring all major companies to have boards comprising of at least 40% of workers and having government oversight of all business decisions, something Warren has campaigned on. 

I can keep on going on.  So when it comes down to it, the election will be about Trump (who is far from perfect) with a booming economy and policies that are on the majority side of the country (this has been shown in polling, repeatably) vs. Warren (who lets admit lies pretty just as much as Trump does) with policies no one but the most extreme support. 

It's going to be an easy choice. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 01:12:24 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1416 on: November 12, 2019, 12:36:43 pm »

Huh? Only Congres plus the Senate can impeach the US president.

Last time I looked, the U.S. Senate was part of the U.S. Congress.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1417 on: November 12, 2019, 12:39:13 pm »

I've wasted too many bytes in offering replies to this thread.  Here is my parting prediction.  Nancy Pelosi is too clever for the President and she will carefully read the tea leaves before deciding to move ahead with an impeachment vote.  The rank and file Republican legislators really don't like the President other than a hard core 12-24 in the House and I'm not sure there are any in the Senate.  They are going to figure out a way to kick Trump out after this term one way or another.  The Republican nominee for President and odds on favorite to win given the economy will be.................................wait for it..............................................................Nikki Haley!!!!!!  First woman President.  You can book mark this and see if I'm correct.

Have fun continuing this "dialogue."  Ich habe genug.

It's a good theory, and I would actually welcome a Nicky Haley presidency. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1418 on: November 12, 2019, 12:44:11 pm »

2020 winning ticket: Trump-Haley.

I dont think that would happen. 

Even though I see him beating any of the current Dems, he is still a wrecking ball that destroys everyone around him.  Haley's exit was timed perfectly to give her enough distance from Trump to be able to still be viable while also not making her an enemy of him. 

She's too smart to ruin this by being his running mate.  I bet she has her eye on 2024. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:47:18 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1419 on: November 12, 2019, 02:11:48 pm »

Democrats aren't going to nominate Warren and throw away the chance to beat Trump. There will be a shake-up in the Democrat Party and a middle.of the roader will be nominated.
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