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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136533 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #280 on: October 08, 2019, 11:37:29 pm »

"In the White House's letter to congressional Democrats, President Donald Trump's lawyers say the President and his administration won't cooperate in an ongoing impeachment inquiry, arguing the proceedings amount to an illegitimate effort to overturn the 2016 election results."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/wh-letter-to-pelosi/index.html

jeremyrh

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #281 on: October 09, 2019, 01:15:00 am »

Another attempt to turn him into a victim while he is the perpetrator.

Do I hate Trump? No.
Do I dislike him? Yes.

Why so?
- because I think that he is taking the world in the wrong direction in terms of philosophy. Although I believe that state should really promote equality of opportunities for all and help those in the need, I am also a firm believer in the power of free enterprise and open trade - be it under the control of the state to avoid the market becoming unbalanced if some entities become too powerful, be it biased towards sustainability. And Trump has been the worst offender against free trade for tens of years. Way worse than what you keep calling "socialist European countries"
- because I believe that debt is the worse kind of dependance, and his tax policy - focusing on reducing tax for the richest - is create debt, and the Reagan years have demonstrated clearly that this doesn't result in a more dynamic economy, it only result in the super rich getting hyper rich
- because, although I believe that private life should stay private, I believe that leaders should fare reasonably well in terms of moral authority, and Trump has been known to violate his word, participate in unfair business practices,... he is the most immoral guy in power in a democratic country in tens of years
- because I think that he is fundamentally racist (which is crazy when you understand what America is) and profoundly disrespects woman in any capacity except that of sex toy
- because of his retard positions about global warming that goes against the good will of a large majority of Americans who understand the reality of the threat
- because I believe that he is a true danger to the stability of the world
- because I believe that positions of power should be occupied by people with a deep understanding of philosophy and the nature of the world, which goes far being "the art of the deal". The "art of the deal" probably accounts for less than 0.01% of what I expect a president of the US to know,
- because I believe that positions of power should be occupied by people who have solved reasonably well the basic psychologic issues most of us manage to deal with during our teenage years
- because the kind of lowest common denominator approach he is making so common lowers the level of civilization, not just in the US, but worldwide
- because there is a truth and his constant lying just sucks
- because he is a threat to democracy because he is demonstrating on a daily basis his non respect for the law and the constitution of the US. How do you expect kids to behave when the boss is a crook?
- and, above all, because I like a certain idea of America that rhymes with excellence and progress... and that he is just the opposite of that

If you think that foreigners shouldn't comment on Trump, then make sure that the US becomes a small country with no international influence. Trump may get you that though...

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, but apart from that he's a great guy :-)
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #282 on: October 09, 2019, 03:06:03 am »

Obviously it would, since it would suggest that being (say) a Pakistani is somehow a negative characteristic. Likewise if I called someone a Jew, regardless of their race.

Interesting introduction, which confirms a previously-held suspicion.

Perhaps it was someone else who wrote:
Rod Liddle, a political commentator in the UK, generally spells with word with multiple "a"s, aptly mimicking the usual pronunciation of those who resort to it.

Oh, I read all sorts of things, from the Spectator each week to the Guardian each morning. I find not isolating myself in the bubble of those who agree with me is a Good Thing; it's what makes me the broadly-informed, well-rounded individual that I am. It doesn't mean I "follow" anyone, whether left- or right-wing (and Liddle was a member of your much-loved Labour party until he left because of its antisemitism).

Jeremy

(edited to make quotations clear)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 12:41:35 pm by Jeremy Roussak »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #283 on: October 09, 2019, 03:38:53 am »

Interesting introduction, which confirms a previously-held suspicion.

Perhaps it was someone else who wrote:
Rod Liddle, a political commentator in the UK, generally spells with word with multiple "a"s, aptly mimicking the usual pronunciation of those who resort to it.


Oh, I read all sorts of things, from the Spectator each week to the Guardian each morning. I find not isolating myself in the bubble of those who agree with me is a Good Thing; it's what makes me the broadly-informed, well-rounded individual that I am. It doesn't mean I "follow" anyone, whether left- or right-wing (and Liddle was a member of your much-loved Labour party until he left because of its antisemitism).

Jeremy

Where shall we begin - with your famous mind-reading skills, or your comical presumption to tell me something I don't know about Rod Liddle (hint: I was at school with Rod Liddle) ?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #284 on: October 09, 2019, 07:53:34 am »

Yes, but apart from that he's a great guy :-)

You can find good in just about anybody. Some people are making it real hard to find those bits though.

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #285 on: October 09, 2019, 10:33:47 am »

Biden drops to second after Warren.
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/20905274/elizabeth-warren-frontrunner-democratic-nomination-2020

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program. 

But who knows, maybe she wont be on the ticket.  She just got caught in two new lies.  Apparently she voluntarily left her job when she was a teacher, which is well documented and she admitted to in interviews from 10 years ago, instead of the current claim that she was fired because she was pregnant.  Also, her mother's temperament about her going to college was not as bad as she made out, albeit this revelation is due to her highly inconsistent accounts from today and in previous decades. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 10:40:33 am by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #286 on: October 09, 2019, 10:37:27 am »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed?
Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #287 on: October 09, 2019, 10:41:42 am »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program.

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it? 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #288 on: October 09, 2019, 10:44:29 am »

Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?

I am by no means rich, and I got a nice tax cut from that plan.  Getting a 20% discount on our taxable income certainly brought us down a tax bracket and saved a few thousand.  Also, lets not forget that Trump wanted to increase taxes on those earning their sole income from investments and hedge funds, which I agree with, but the Republicans refused to pass it.  I was quite disappointed with this, but I put the disappointment where it makes sense, with the congress not the executive. 

Last, Warren's plan would sky rocket the debt a lot faster then Trump's. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #289 on: October 09, 2019, 10:53:27 am »

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it?

I do agree with this; I find it unsettling that the Republican spend money just like the Dems do, albeit in different areas. 

But lets look at this with some perspective.  The Republicans love spending money on defense and if you look at all four military sectors plus outside spending, this is about $7T over tens years, which is the time period of the above figures. 

Warrens total so far is $135T over ten years, in additional spending, or about 19 times higher.  If you took out the Green New Deal, her proposal would still cost 6 times more then what the Republicans like to spend on defense. 

Any way you look at it, her proposals would require an obscene amount of capital. 

Right now the race is between Trump and some fantasy Dem that the general electorate has no concept of since no candidate has yet emerged as the clear front runner.  So all of the current polling rest on this fantasy candidate running against Trump.  At some point in time though, a clear front runner will emerge and the reality of who is running will hit the general electorate.  If that candidate is Warren, when that reality hits, all of these extremely expensive policy proposals will be front and center in people's minds.  I just cant see it being a winning message.   
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 11:00:58 am by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #290 on: October 09, 2019, 01:09:17 pm »

I am by no means rich, and I got a nice tax cut from that plan.  Getting a 20% discount on our taxable income certainly brought us down a tax bracket and saved a few thousand.
I am glad you got something out of it. Kind of like a credit card cash advance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-time-history-us-billionaires-paid-lower-tax-rate-than-working-class-last-year/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 01:29:22 pm by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #291 on: October 09, 2019, 01:38:03 pm »

I am glad you got something out of it. Kind of like a credit card cash advance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-time-history-us-billionaires-paid-lower-tax-rate-than-working-class-last-year/

Thank you for addressing my first point while completely ignoring my point that I was for increasing taxes on hedge funds, as was the president, but congress had a different idea.   
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #292 on: October 09, 2019, 02:00:58 pm »

Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?
Tax cuts are not expenditures.  Most liberals don;t understand that the government does not own or earn the tax money they collect.   The money never belonged to them.  So tax cuts are just leaving more money earned with those who earned the money in the first place.    Tax cut dollars belong to the taxpayer to begin with.

That's different than expenditures which is money spent from the earnings of the taxpayer.   So when Warren or others call for "free" this and "free" that, what they're really saying is we intend to have the government take more money that you earned and give it to others through income redistribution, the hallmark of Socialism, Communism and Marxism.   The program and cost for them that she intends to carry out would make the Russian Revolution look like nickel and dime stuff.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #293 on: October 09, 2019, 02:16:26 pm »

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it? 
Both Republicans and Democrats have been buying the vote from the public by giving away more things than we can afford. So we have trillion dollar deficits and $22 trillion in debt.  We borrow from the Chinese and print up the rest. Of course, the blame ultimately lies with us because we refuse to give up any "free" stuff.  Of course, the huge new freebies the Democrat candidates for presidency plan to implement would make a Marxist blush. The amounts could fill the Pacific Ocean's  Mariana Trench.  So sure.  It's being discussed and should be.  Frankly, people should also ask why Trump is adding on so much debt.  He's not much better.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #294 on: October 09, 2019, 03:06:31 pm »

Tax cuts are not expenditures.  Most liberals don;t understand that the government does not own or earn the tax money they collect.   The money never belonged to them.  So tax cuts are just leaving more money earned with those who earned the money in the first place.    Tax cut dollars belong to the taxpayer to begin with.

That's different than expenditures which is money spent from the earnings of the taxpayer.   So when Warren or others call for "free" this and "free" that, what they're really saying is we intend to have the government take more money that you earned and give it to others through income redistribution, the hallmark of Socialism, Communism and Marxism.   The program and cost for them that she intends to carry out would make the Russian Revolution look like nickel and dime stuff.

More third-rate ideological tripe. Taxes are how we pay for the common expenditures that we incur. There's nothing philosophical about it. You live in a society, you have joint responsibilities, you pay for them, that's all she wrote. All discussions about whether taxes are right or wrong are utter b*llshit. The real conversation is in deciding what you want to pay for collectively. Once you know that, you divvy up the costs. And anyway, when you pay taxes the money doesn't disappear into a black hole.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #295 on: October 09, 2019, 03:13:26 pm »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ??? ). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program. 

But who knows, maybe she wont be on the ticket.  She just got caught in two new lies.  Apparently she voluntarily left her job when she was a teacher, which is well documented and she admitted to in interviews from 10 years ago, instead of the current claim that she was fired because she was pregnant. Also, her mother's temperament about her going to college was not as bad as she made out, albeit this revelation is due to her highly inconsistent accounts from today and in previous decades. 


Of course, she's being protected by the liberal anti-Trump press, all the major media.  They're ignoring that part of the story for the most part amplifying how she got "fired" for being pregnant which is her lying again and the press swearing to it and playing up thi untruth for her benefit.  Here's her original statement she said years ago about the issue.   Nothing about getting fired.  She lied just as she lied about her Indian heritage. 


"[M]y first year post-graduation I worked in a public school system with the children with disabilities. I did that for a year, and then that summer I didn't have the education courses, so I was on an "emergency certificate," it was called. I went back to graduate school and took a couple of courses in education and said, "I don't think this is going to work out for me." I was pregnant with my first baby, so I had a baby and stayed home for a couple of years, and I was really casting about, thinking, "What am I going to do?""[/font][/size]
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/liberal-media-ignore-elizabeth-warrens-lie-about-pregnancy-related-firing

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #296 on: October 09, 2019, 03:16:57 pm »

Where's Hillary when we need her?

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #297 on: October 09, 2019, 03:24:40 pm »

More third-rate ideological tripe. Taxes are how we pay for the common expenditures that we incur. There's nothing philosophical about it. You live in a society, you have joint responsibilities, you pay for them, that's all she wrote. All discussions about whether taxes are right or wrong are utter b*llshit. The real conversation is in deciding what you want to pay for collectively. Once you know that, you divvy up the costs. And anyway, when you pay taxes the money doesn't disappear into a black hole.

I was making the point that tax cuts are not expenditures as the poster had implied.  He was wrong. 

faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #298 on: October 09, 2019, 03:27:44 pm »

I was making the point that tax cuts are not expenditures as the poster had implied.  He was wrong.

I didn't say tax cuts were expenditures. I said they were debt financed, meaning the government is borrowing money to make the tax cuts possible. Otherwise, Congress would have had to cut expenditures an equivalent amount, and Congress certainly isn't interested in that. I hope that you, like Joe, were the beneficiary of the tax cuts. Most Americans got little or nothing from them.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:07:02 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #299 on: October 09, 2019, 04:06:49 pm »

I didn't say taxes were expenditures. I said they were debt financed, meaning we are borrowing the money to make the tax cuts possible. Otherwise, we would have had to cut expenditures an equivalent amount, and Congress certainly isn't interested in that.
Lower taxes are not debt financed.  Expenditures are debt financed.  We are borrowing to make the expenditures possible. Of course, if tax collection is less than spending, we have to borrow or print.  But it's spending that decides how much taxes you need.  The government pays interest on the deficit and debt, money spent.  Not on the tax money not collected.  Unless we get spending under control, we're in trouble.  There's not enough tax money available that won't hurt the economy with the programs the Democrats are proposing.  The Republicans are better, but not by much.   
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