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Author Topic: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science  (Read 96364 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #240 on: August 17, 2019, 03:33:43 am »

Sorry, Les, but who isn’t for conserving energy and reducing pollution!? Except CO2 isn’t pollution. Whatever you guys do has only one purpose: to make you feel good about yourself. I am glad for you. But it does zilch for the environment.

Lovely circular thinking!

The truth is that CO2 is a pollutant as it contributes to the green house effect that is a clear contributor to global warming. There is not even the slightest debate about this. Zero. Nitch. There used to be some debate about the scale of the impact of man generated CO2 vs other natural mechanisms related to CO2 (photosynthesis, absorption by bodies of water,...), but as this thread has clearly demonstrated, there is now widespread consensus among credible scientists that the scale is large.

But if it makes you feel good to think that you cannot do anything about global warming because man don’t contribute to it...

Or is it that you don’t want to listen to the scientific data because if man had an influence about global warming you would feel bad not doing what you could do about it? ;)

It’s reminiscent of the interpretation of protestantism according to which we have been given by god the mission to make fructify that he has given us. A wonderful moral justification for greed. Except that this theory was designed by man for man. :D

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 03:55:57 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Ray

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #241 on: August 17, 2019, 05:09:39 am »

Lovely circular thinking!

The truth is that CO2 is a pollutant as it contributes to the green house effect that is a clear contributor to global warming.

Bernard,
That's an excellent example of the sort of thinking which has caused me to become skeptical about the claimed 'bad effects' of those increases in the tiny percentages of CO2 in the atmosphere, from 0.028% to 0.0404% during the past 150 years, caused by the burning of fossil fuels, and also skeptical about the rationality and/or honesty of those who are promoting the dangers of rising CO2 levels.

If CO2 is a pollutant then surely water vapour must be an even greater pollutant because water vapour has a far greater greenhouse effect than CO2.

The truth, according to my research, is that CO2, Water Vapour, and greenhouse gases in general, are absolutely essential for our survival.
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LesPalenik

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #242 on: August 17, 2019, 05:27:19 am »

Three weeks ago I went to Monmouth race track here in New Jersey. I hit a 18 to 1 long shot that paid me back $96 on a $5 bet. All the other betters played the favorites, and lost. I'd bet they were the global warming believers too.

Congratulations to your win, Alan! 18 to 1 is a great outcome. That means that if you bet $1000, you would have made almost $18,000.
Long shots on the race track are like to be contrarian in stock market. Most analysts keep recommending what is trending at the moment and most investors follow their advice. Half the time they are wrong. Do you have any such stock investment tips?
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LesPalenik

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #243 on: August 17, 2019, 05:40:32 am »

Bernard,
That's an excellent example of the sort of thinking which has caused me to become skeptical about the claimed 'bad effects' of those increases in the tiny percentages of CO2 in the atmosphere, from 0.028% to 0.0404% during the past 150 years, caused by the burning of fossil fuels, and also skeptical about the rationality and/or honesty of those who are promoting the dangers of rising CO2 levels.

If CO2 is a pollutant then surely water vapour must be an even greater pollutant because water vapour has a far greater greenhouse effect than CO2.

The truth, according to my research, is that CO2, Water Vapour, and greenhouse gases in general, are absolutely essential for our survival.

It's quite possible that the positive effects of CO2 partially offset its negative effects, and by now it should be feasible to conduct and evaluate some experiments to determine what are the real consequences.

OTOH, pollution of the lakes and oceans by plastics, combined with ever increasing amount of antibiotics, growth hormones and pesticides in the food chain, as well as clear-cutting of rain forests can't be beneficial in any aspect, and are most probably more harmful than CO2.   
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #244 on: August 17, 2019, 07:14:12 am »

Once again, that is a false number. the 97% has been debunked.

But you never answered my question: are you ready to give up everything we derive from fossil fuels? Your Nikon? Your meat? Car? Plane?

OMG! I totally forget the #1 moronic "remedial solution"

- do not have kids!!!

You frequently make short statements calling ideas laughable or silly. Your insistence that his opinions are only valid unless he stops doing anything that might add to a carbon footprint is silly. It's not a valid debating point, and you know it.

On another subject, there is an interesting Planet Money podcast about the troubles in the recycling industry https://www.npr.org/2019/07/12/741283641/episode-926-so-should-we-recycle. As with everything else, it doesn't boil down to simply answers. The podcast is only 30 min, and is very instructive.


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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #245 on: August 17, 2019, 09:03:20 am »

... Saying that you don't believe in anthropogenic global warming because it's complex is intellectually void.

This isn’t what I was saying. Try again.

Ray

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #246 on: August 17, 2019, 09:21:47 am »

It's quite possible that the positive effects of CO2 partially offset its negative effects, and by now it should be feasible to conduct and evaluate some experiments to determine what are the real consequences.

If we do nothing, and continue as usual without any changes, the positive effects of CO2 increases will definitely, at least partially, offset the negative effects, because we know with certainty that increased levels of CO2 increase world plant growth, including most food crops.

However, I would never recommend we do nothing. My recommendation is that we should fully exploit the benefits of increased CO2 levels and a warming climate. One benefit of a warming climate is increased evaporation which results in increased rainfall.
Increased rainfall, in combination with increased CO2, is tremendously beneficial for plant growth. Even areas that don't receive the increased rainfall, will still benefit, because increased CO2 levels are even more beneficial under water-stressed conditions.

With no shortage of water, a doubling of CO2 levels will increase the growth of most plants (C3 type) by around 35%. Under water-stressed conditions, that increase can be as high as 64%.

Of course, those irrational and emotionally biased 'climate change alarmist' will strive to think up any negative effects of increased plant growth, such as reduced protein, vitamins and minerals in rice which is grown in elevated levels of CO2, thus contradicting their own mantra on climate, that we should not do nothing.

We should not 'do nothing' whatever the problem. We should clearly identify and define the problem and then address it. If it is found that rice grown in current levels of CO2 is less nutritious than rice which was grown 150 years ago, then we should encourage everyone to eat whole-grain brown rice, which is always far more nutritious than white rice, regardless of CO2 levels.

If other crops are found to be lacking certain minerals and nutrients when grown in elevated levels of CO2 which are higher than currents levels, and also when grown in current levels compared to preindustrial levels, then solving the problem by reducing CO2 levels, which will inevitably reduce plant growth, is completely stupid.

If the nutritional content of plants is found to be lacking, after laboratory analysis, then we should address the problem by increasing soil health and fertility, and by adding to the soil whatever minerals are lacking.

Quote
OTOH, pollution of the lakes and oceans by plastics, combined with ever increasing amount of antibiotics, growth hormones and pesticides in the food chain, as well as clear-cutting of rain forests can't be beneficial in any aspect, and are most probably more harmful than CO2.

Of course. No disagreement there. All non-organic or non-degradable waste should be either recycled or burned in incinerators with strict controls of harmful emissions, excluding CO2 which is not harmful. The cost of such burning could be at least partially, if not fully offset, if the incinerators were designed to produce electricity.
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RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #247 on: August 17, 2019, 09:23:33 am »

Interesting tidbit in this morning's Wall Street Journal: "...energy-related CO2 emissions declined by 14% in the U.S. from 2005 to 2017 while increasing 21% globally." C'mon you guys over there, get with it. Not that there's any evidence that CO2 levels bear any relation to warming.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #248 on: August 17, 2019, 09:37:55 am »

.. Your insistence that his opinions are only valid unless he stops doing anything that might add to a carbon footprint is silly...

As I said to Jeremy, this is not what I was saying, so try again. Obviously, the validity of one’s opinion on any subject is independent of what one does. Already known as “do as I say, not as I do.” If your doctor smokes, it doesn’t invalidate his opinion that smoking is not good for one’s health. The same concept is behind ad hominem fallacy.

The question about “remedial solutions” I asked is not what Jesus Bernard would do. Or you. Or me. It is about what the alarmists are asking the whole humanity to do: stop immediately, i.e., within 12 years, as per Karla Marx, flying, driving gas cars, eating meat, and switch to solar and wind, slaughter 1 billion cows, and, ultimately, commit a collective suicide by not having children.

Ultimately, the “solution” the alarmists propose is far worse than the problem. The problem, if there is one, is still 100-200 years away. It isn’t already too late, as some prophets of the new church claim (Al Gore). The world is not going to end in 12 years, as Karla Marx believes.  Plenty of time to come up with technological and economic solutions without killing our way of life today. And by economic solutions I don’t mean punitive taxation, but basic forces of supply and demand.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #249 on: August 17, 2019, 09:51:00 am »

Interesting tidbit in this morning's Wall Street Journal: "...energy-related CO2 emissions declined by 14% in the U.S. from 2005 to 2017 while increasing 21% globally." C'mon you guys over there, get with it. Not that there's any evidence that CO2 levels bear any relation to warming.

There is plenty of evidence that it does and its great to see that the US is progressing despite the presence of the minority you belong to of people unwilling to face reality.

Cheers,
Bernard

RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #250 on: August 17, 2019, 09:58:39 am »

There is plenty of evidence that it does and its great to see that the US is progressing despite the presence of the minority you belong to of people unwilling to face reality.

Cheers,
Bernard

Oh come on, Bernard. Go ahead. Call me a "denier." I always deny this kind of bullshit, so that appellation isn't unwarranted. You claim to be into science, so surely you've heard that correlation doesn't imply causation. Instead of CO2 emissions I probably could find at least a dozen other things that correlate with global warming.
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #251 on: August 17, 2019, 10:24:40 am »

Oh come on, Bernard. Go ahead. Call me a "denier." I always deny this kind of bullshit, so that appellation isn't unwarranted. You claim to be into science, so surely you've heard that correlation doesn't imply causation. Instead of CO2 emissions I probably could find at least a dozen other things that correlate with global warming.

Your post amply demonstrates that you don’t have the remotest clue what you’re talking about. Hint: nobody is saying that the correlation proves the causation. Try doing some actual reading about the issue and then jump back in.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #252 on: August 17, 2019, 10:27:37 am »

... nobody is saying that the correlation proves the causation...

But, but... it is literally your ONLY argument!?

jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #253 on: August 17, 2019, 10:30:52 am »

But, but... it is literally your ONLY argument!?

Not remotely. Try googling “scientific method” or some such.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #254 on: August 17, 2019, 10:33:07 am »

You claim to be into science, so surely you've heard that correlation doesn't imply causation. Instead of CO2 emissions I probably could find at least a dozen other things that correlate with global warming.

Russ, you are mistaken. The atmospheric warming due to CO2 is not a correlation, it is the result of a physical property of CO2!

Denying that is like denying gravity. You can deny it all you want, it will still happen. It's physics.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #255 on: August 17, 2019, 10:46:26 am »


... The atmospheric warming due to CO2 is not a correlation, it is the result of a physical property of CO2!

Again, a simpletonistic linking of a single cause and and single effect, denying the extreme complexity of climate change.

RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #256 on: August 17, 2019, 11:08:19 am »

. . . nobody is saying that the correlation proves the causation.

DUH. That's exactly what global warmers are saying, Jeremy. I think you're the one who needs to do some reading. Try reading back through this thread. Check some of the other threads. Look at Bart's charts. The fact is that there have been some convincing analyses that show there isn't any real correlation between CO2 levels and the temperature of the earth. Bottom line, global warmism is a religious conviction, based on faith. Most religions have the same kind of "data" available to "prove" what the believers want to believe.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #257 on: August 17, 2019, 11:15:39 am »

Not remotely. Try googling “scientific method” or some such.

I fully support science:

RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #258 on: August 17, 2019, 11:16:44 am »

. . .or some such.

Pretty much sums up your whole approach to this, Jeremy.
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #259 on: August 17, 2019, 11:17:30 am »

DUH. That's exactly what global warmers are saying, Jeremy.

No it isn't, and the fact that you make this mistake shows that you don't understand the basics of the argument. Maybe you can find someone patient enough to explain it to you - I certainly can't be bothered.
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