Mac Pro is going black screen. New computer suggestions?

[dgberg]

My 2009 Mac Pro is going off line with no explanations other then it is 10 years old.
Time for a replacement without spending 5k if possible.
My biggest worry is how to handle the transfer of images in Lightroom to a new system. I have the 4 internal drives on the Mac Pro.
My computer salesman will be setting up whatever I purchase but he is not a Lightroom guy.
Suggestions I can pass on to him and what is an ideal Mac setup for photography.
I plan on keeping my two screens. 30" HD Mac and my NEC PA242w.

[dgberg]

Looking at iMac Pro 8 core 32gb ram 1tb ssd drive and some sort of dual 4tb external drives for storage and backup.
Problem is the price is $4995 excluding external drives.
Getting a quote on the new iMac 5k with 1tb ssd drive and 64gb of ram. Plus 2 -4tb external drives for storage.
Not sure what external drives he is quoting. If they can keep the price of the upgraded 5k and drives under $5,000 I may go that route.

[Chris Kern]

My 2009 Mac Pro is going off line with no explanations other then it is 10 years old.
Time for a replacement without spending 5k if possible.
My biggest worry is how to handle the transfer of images in Lightroom to a new system. I have the 4 internal drives on the Mac Pro.

OWC* will sell you a quite capable, factory-refurbished, 2013 Mac Pro for $2500.  Put your Lightroom catalog on the internal solid-state drive and attach some inexpensive external drives to store your image files and for back-up.  The configuration at the link above is what I'm using now and the machine's performance with Lightroom and Photoshop, as well as some programs that require but don't overly stress the graphics processors, is quite satisfactory.  Apple doesn't publish end-of-life plans for software support of specific hardware, but my guess is you should be able to get at least five years out of this machine—probably quite a bit longer if you don't need to stay current with all of Apple's future operating system versions.

As for migration, as long as the old machine will still boot, the simplest method I can think of would be to copy your current filing hierarchy from the old computer to the new one across a local network using the "secure shell" utility that Apple includes as part of MacOS.  Depending on how much data you have to move it might take overnight, even on a fast network over hardwired interfaces (Ethernet), but by copying the catalog and replicating your current directory structure on the new machine, no reconfiguration of Lightroom should be required.  If you don't know how to do this kind of thing yourself, I'm sure you can find a local high school geek who will be happy to handle it for a modest fee.
___
*I have no connection to the company except as a customer.

[dgberg]

Thanks Chris

My Mac Pro is running 10.11.6 so I now have 5 different photography software packages that I can no longer update.
10.12 required as a minimum. Don't want to be doing this again in a couple of years.

[Chris Kern]

10.12 required as a minimum. Don't want to be doing this again in a couple of years.

I'm running 10.14.6 on my 2013 Mac Pro.  I can't predict the future, but I would be surprised if Apple didn't include support for this hardware in at least the next three major releases.

[dgberg]

Just finished placing the order. Purchasing 64GB ram from OWC at half the price.
Plus we get 10% off for the Education discount, wife is a professor.
My last computer purchase, I hope. Wanted to get the latest technology. Not being able to update software because of os limitations gets old real fast.
The iMac pro was enticing but at over a grand more I am not sure I see the value for that additional money.

27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display.
3.6GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor
Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
Radeon Pro Vega 48 with 8GB of HBM2 memory 1TB SSD storage
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard
Drobo 5D3 with 5 - 3TB Server Grade Hard drives
USB-C to USB-C Cable server grade data cable AppleCare+

[BobShaw]

Drobo 5D3 with 5 - 3TB Server Grade Hard drives

Sounds good. My experience though is that there is no point in expensive drives in a Drobo. It is a protected system anyway. If you put in 5 drives then it is full. If you want to increase then you have to pull something out and a bigger drive will not increase the storage anyway as it is limited by the smaller drives.
You would probably be better off with 3 x 4TB (or 6TB or more if it supports them)



Correction 4 Aug 19 : Changed "smallest" to "smaller"

[TommyWeir]

27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display.
3.6GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor
Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
Radeon Pro Vega 48 with 8GB of HBM2 memory 1TB SSD storage

Precisely the machine I purchased earlier this Spring, I upgraded the memory to 48Gb separately.  You'll be a happy man.

[kers]

+1 i think this is now the best choice -
a better choice would be a similar macpro 2012 but then a 2019 version but Apple forgot to make that. (That is why i have a hackintosh that is simply that.)

[dgberg]

Precisely the machine I purchased earlier this Spring, I upgraded the memory to 48Gb separately.  You'll be a happy man.

My computer guy was a little shy on the larger OWC RAM modules.
His comment was they are not proven yet on the 2019 models.
I asked about going to 128GB of ram and his suggestion was you can always go there later and to start with 64.
Anyones thoughts on the benefits of going with 128 vs 64 GB of after market RAM.
 Since OWC ram is coming separately we could still change that order.

[kers]

My computer guy was a little shy on the larger OWC RAM modules.
His comment was they are not proven yet on the 2019 models.
I asked about going to 128GB of ram and his suggestion was you can always go there later and to start with 64.
Anyones thoughts on the benefits of going with 128 vs 64 GB of after market RAM.
 Since OWC ram is coming separately we could still change that order.

Best thing is to have the same RAM modules in the machine...
OWC will have to ensure you that they work ( in some case combined with the ones already inside the iMac)
They have a long history of supporting mac so they know what they are doing.
I have 32 gig ram in my machine and it is enough for almost any task ( i work with very large images) especially if you close programs that you do not use at that time.
( if i switch from LR tot photoshop for instance) More ram is usually fast cache.
I think 64GIG ram will be sufficient, but if you use the computer all day without closing programs you do not need you just pile up a load of fast cache in the Ram modules.

For speed it is also very important that your working harddisk is the fast 1 TB SSD- The external sata drives cannot compete.

[dgberg]

You answered my questions.
Thank you.

[rdonson]

Sounds good. My experience though is that there is no point in expensive drives in a Drobo. It is a protected system anyway. If you put in 5 drives then it is full. If you want to increase then you have to pull something out and a bigger drive will not increase the storage anyway as it is limited by the smallest drive.
You would probably be better off with 3 x 4TB (or 6TB or more if it supports them)

I have a 5D3.  It has a maximum capacity for 64 TB.  I've removed small 2TB drives and added 4TB and larger drives and it has increased the storage appropriately.  It was not limited by the smallest drive. 

https://myproducts.drobo.com/retrieve/s3/knowledge/AA/AA-01124.html

If Drobo desired it could change the firmware and software for the 5D3 and go beyond 64TB. 

As Bob said, I don't see a need for server quality drives. 

I've had good experiences with my Drobos.  I have a 3 year old 5D3 and two 7 year old 4 bay Drobos that are running just fine. 

[BobShaw]

I have a 5D3.  It has a maximum capacity for 64 TB.  I've removed small 2TB drives and added 4TB and larger drives and it has increased the storage appropriately.  It was not limited by the smallest drive. 

Correct. I have changed "smallest" to "smaller".
The point was that if you have a 5 bay system with 5 x 3TB drives in it and it becomes full then taking out a 3TB drive and replacing it with a 6TB drive does not give you 6 more TB. Obviously you have taken 3 out to start with and you do not get the additional 3TB anyway because other drives have to provide redundancy for it. If you have a 5 bay system with 3 larger drives in it then adding an additional drive makes a lot more space.

[rdonson]

Correct. I have changed "smallest" to "smaller".
The point was that if you have a 5 bay system with 5 x 3TB drives in it and it becomes full then taking out a 3TB drive and replacing it with a 6TB drive does not give you 6 more TB. Obviously you have taken 3 out to start with and you do not get the additional 3TB anyway because other drives have to provide redundancy for it. If you have a 5 bay system with 3 larger drives in it then adding an additional drive makes a lot more space.

You're correct. That's just simple math if you don't adjust space for redundancy on the additional drive.  If you add a 6TB drive as in your scenario some of that 6TB will be lost to adding redundancy across that 5 bay system which now has 4 drives. 

[dgberg]

Many of you seem to be on top of your game so here is a question from someone who doesn't know much about computers or redundant drive systems.
With the Drobo drive  I cut back to 2-4tb drives with the rest of the bays empty. (Cost savings)
1 drive for images and the other for backup.
Is their any reason to fill those other drives to start? Presently 65,000 images spread out over 4 different drives on my current Mac Pro.
Chris Kern commented before about migrating all these images to the new computer.
Since they are presently spread over those 3 drives plus an external 2 TB Lacie I want all the images together in the one 4 TB Drobo drive.
I am assuming it can be done and I will not have to be dealing with "The file cannot be found"
If I am going to get all the potential out of these drives now is the time to upgrade the drive purchase if necessary.

[kers]

As i understand you have a machine with 1 TB  SSD ( this drive will do 2400MB/second)
and two Sata drives in the Drobo. One for backup and one for images.These drives will do 200MB /second.
The idea of the drobo is that with more disks you have a RAID with more speed and safety over your files. ( up to 300mb/sec and no risk of losing data due to faulty disks)

In general
You have a very fast compurter with a veryfast SSD connected to a a slow DROBO.
If your LR catalogue is on the Drobo it will be not the fast solution your iMac is capable of- you need something like this)
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2
( the Drobo interface is fast , but the drives are slow)

1  it is clear you have to run your work on the 1TB SSD to get all the portential out of the iMac- or connect a LR catalogue stored on a pci-SSD.
2 Your backup should be larger than 5 TB - i would choose 8 TB at least. ( it has to backup the images (4TB) and the (1TB) SSD in time)


what I think is important:

safety of your files _
If you computer gets stolen what is left?
If you harddisk turns bad - what is left?

Make sure your backup takes all data for a length of time and have one extra in another physical place to reduce these risks.

- how do i use the potential of the machine i just bought.
Considering a 8TB sata disks cost about 200$ it is not the place to reduce costs.

It is personal choice how to deal with these potential problems.

[Joe Towner]

Hey dgberg,

So there is no such thing as redundancy within a Drobo.  Think of the Drobo as a unit - where there can be some redundancy in the unit (hard drive goes bad). The Drobo's run software that sits between your Mac & the hard drives. A hard drive from a Drobo can't be read by anything else. 

If you want to have 2 drives, one for images, one for backup, you'd be better looking at a standard USB-SATA enclosure. OWC makes some good ones and they are cheaper than the Drobo's as they don't have the additional functionality (RAID, etc).

Now to echo what kers is saying, you really should consider what is the slowest part of your computer.  If your normal shooting style, Lightroom Library & 'active projects' folder can live on your internal 1tb NVMe drive, and the external 4tb is for your 'archive', it's fine.  If you're going to be actively working on files on the 4tb drive, you really should restructure this with additional SSD/NVMe space to the Mac - the spinning rust is going to be the slowest part of the computer.  This could be done via a USB-C enclosure that holds the 4tb drive, or be stacked on top of it.

+1 to doing a 8tb drive as a local backup / TimeMachine setup - Costco has external 8tb's for $140 most the time.  You don't mention what other backup methods you do such as Backblaze, so we're just trying to cover all the basis.

[rdonson]

Side note: 

The Drobo 5D3 sports Thunderbolt 3.  As such it can move data pretty quickly at 300MB/sec or more depending on the HDD you choose.  You can look at their list of SSDs that are compatible as well.   The 5D3 doesn't have to be slow.

[BobShaw]

Hey dgberg,

So there is no such thing as redundancy within a Drobo.  Think of the Drobo as a unit - where there can be some redundancy in the unit (hard drive goes bad). The Drobo's run software that sits between your Mac & the hard drives. A hard drive from a Drobo can't be read by anything else. 

If you want to have 2 drives, one for images, one for backup, you'd be better looking at a standard USB-SATA enclosure. OWC makes some good ones and they are cheaper than the Drobo's as they don't have the additional functionality (RAID, etc).
...

+1 to doing a 8tb drive as a local backup / TimeMachine setup - Costco has external 8tb's for $140 most the time.  You don't mention what other backup methods you do such as Backblaze, so we're just trying to cover all the basis.

Sorry, but you first sentence is completely wrong. Of course Drobo provides redundancy. It does not provide backup. However neither does two drives in the same enclosure or any other system where the data on the second drive changes as you change the data on the first drive.

Redundancy is the ability to continue working if there is a failure. In reality, most photographers don't need this as long as they can get back working is a reasonable (same day) time.

Backup is the ability to recover from a failure. Create a file on Monday, delete it by mistake on Tuesday, recover it easily on Wednesday. You do that using a static snapshot of the drives taken before the failure. Time Machine does this using hourly backups by default.

What Drobo offers is the ability to easily grow a storage system and that is the key feature. In a world where storage needs grow rapidly that is a real selling point. Redundancy is a bonus.