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Author Topic: Politics -  (Read 2316 times)

amolitor

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Politics -
« on: July 07, 2019, 02:34:59 pm »

For a bunch of guys who profess to hold the Michael's legacy in the highest esteem, you sure are hell ain't shy about shitting all over his living room.

My relationship with LuLa and Michael was always, let us decorously say "more nuanced," so I cannot say I disapprove particularly. Indeed, it's belly-laugh funny.
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digitaldog

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 03:47:59 pm »

For a bunch of guys who profess to hold the Michael's legacy in the highest esteem, you sure are hell ain't shy about shitting all over his living room.

My relationship with LuLa and Michael was always, let us decorously say "more nuanced," so I cannot say I disapprove particularly. Indeed, it's belly-laugh funny.


We are in violent agreement, and for those asking yes, I knew Michael personally.
What's also amazing is the number of posts and views of the political discussions here compared to those that are based on what the site strives for (or did strive for); photography.
I will duck into the 'conspiracies theory mode' and state that perhaps the very reason this is allowed to continue is such discussions greatly raise the hit's to the site which the advertisers must love. Now I'll go away from the Coffee Corner and the grassy knoll as I'd rather spend time posting and reading about the software created by Thomas Knoll  ;D  among other topics.
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josh.reichmann

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 04:14:51 pm »

I think thatís my cue to offer clarification, again :

You will notice we have about TWO advertisers. Weíve eliminated all conflict of interest advertising (as per my fatherís original MO). We may add more, but we donít answer to advertisers nor mutate the siteís quality or culture for them.

The numbers which reflect the strength of the site reside elsewhere.

Our subscriptions are actually growing (including statistically to last year etc). This keeps the lights on and glowing.  This growth is largely due to the age of the site and itís subsequent score on google which is 1.5 million. It ranks incredibly high when people search for almost anything photography related. Those searchers then begin their journey into Lula.

View counts on older articles are more robust than in the last few years (again, reasons for attraction are age/google strength/cool new articles)  and most importantly new articles being published are seeing 10 to 20x the shares and views ever (!!)  IE the latest:  https://luminous-landscape.com/

I appreciate the sentiment shared and share the concern for not seeing exhausting and nasty discourse. I do. 

It was not my decision to remove or reinstate political threads. I stay mostly clear of meddling with the forum as it is a common space.

Iím personally (hesitantly) for political threads. Why ? Because otherwise there is a bubbling pressure in other threads, this space alleviates this build up and allows people to express.

The moderation is important, as are peopleís temperance and civility. Even better would be some things  like levity and compassion, especially by people with long standing relationships. Life is short.

I think people can make cases without humiliating or hurling ad hominem frantic pride shots at each-other.
I mean, youíre going to see each other at the park the next day! Learn to play with your adversary. 

I hope people hear the concern though, and once again reflect on it.

The site can afford to have political threads if people use this space as an example of how discourse and disagreement (even high stakes and heated) can be done among a community bound by a common passion.

Thanks

Josh
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 04:30:15 pm by josh.reichmann »
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Rob C

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 04:59:04 pm »

For a bunch of guys who profess to hold the Michael's legacy in the highest esteem, you sure are hell ain't shy about shitting all over his living room.

My relationship with LuLa and Michael was always, let us decorously say "more nuanced," so I cannot say I disapprove particularly. Indeed, it's belly-laugh funny.


Andrew, the "living room" model vanished with Michael.

And if anyone is shitting, as you so delicately put it, then it's in the toilet section which is where such things are normal. Of course, first you have to define what shitting, in this context, is. You may have difficulty. When you have produced the definitive definition for "art", then I am sure your services in pursuit of this other challenge will be most welcome.

Rob

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2019, 05:06:42 pm »

It was not my decision to remove or reinstate political threads. I stay mostly clear of meddling with the forum as it is a common space.

Iím personally (hesitantly) for political threads. Why ? Because otherwise there is a bubbling pressure in other threads, this space alleviates this build up and allows people to express.

Josh is quite correct. It was my decision to restore political threads, which I made on my own initiative and without discussion with him; he does indeed stay clear of the forum.

As it happens, we agree on the presence of political discussion. It has, as he says, precisely nothing to do with advertising.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2019, 05:12:52 pm »

The interest in discussing photography, and in particular, photographs, is simply waning, with or without political threads present on the forum.

There is another forum, Fred Miranda, where I, and some other members here, occasionally post. There are no political discussions there, and the forums generally have much more posted photographs than here. However, as of recently (a few years back?) the number of views, and in particular, comments on posted photographs is approaching abysmal: 3-5 on average in threads other than landscape, where it might be 8-10. Very often no comments at all.

In other words, political discussion are not "choking" photography threads.

KLaban

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2019, 05:13:47 pm »

Josh is quite correct. It was my decision to restore political threads, which I made on my own initiative and without discussion with him; he does indeed stay clear of the forum.

As it happens, we agree on the presence of political discussion. It has, as he says, precisely nothing to do with advertising.

Jeremy

Or photography.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2019, 05:15:57 pm »

Or photography.

Except it is photographers discussing politics.

KLaban

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2019, 05:19:53 pm »

Except it is photographers discussing politics.

Yummy.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2019, 05:21:57 pm »

I think thatís my cue to offer clarification, again...

Josh, well said.

josh.reichmann

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2019, 06:09:31 pm »

Josh, well said.

Thanks Slobodan,

FYI we are building a proper photo sharing application into the site as part of our web dev (as we speak).  Upload time will no longer hinder engagement.

J
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David Sutton

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2019, 06:59:20 pm »

Well, yes, while sometimes the length of threads reference Conrad, they have been an education. I appreciate Jeremy's moderation but wouldn't want his job.
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Manoli

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 04:49:29 am »

It was not my decision to remove or reinstate political threads. I stay mostly clear of meddling with the forum as it is a common space.

Iím personally (hesitantly) for political threads. .

The moderation is important, as are peopleís temperance and civility. Even better would be some things  like levity and compassion, especially by people with long standing relationships. Life is short.

Iím unsure of how Ďpoliticsí evolved into being the prime descriptor of the Coffee Corner.
ĎCurrent Affairsí would be more apt. Your dad was involved, and both contributed and moderated with gusto, good humour and no small amount of insightfulness. His exasperation showed, often, but he always responded in a measured manner without being afraid to pull punches where necessary

His old posts are a masterclass in moderating and testimony to his invaluable contributions.
A family talent worth perpetuating ?
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Manoli

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 04:50:18 am »

It was my decision to restore political threads, which I made on my own initiative and without discussion with him; he does indeed stay clear of the forum.  [...]. It has, as he says, precisely nothing to do with advertising.

Possibly not, presumably more to do with the 70% decline in monthly page views from Jan-2018 to Mar-2019. (99m down to just over 30m)!

A Gerald Ratner prawn sandwich moment, if ever there was one ...
https://www.businessblogshub.com/2012/09/the-man-who-destroyed-his-multi-million-dollar-company-in-10-seconds/
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Rob C

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 06:43:04 am »

Possibly not, presumably more to do with the 70% decline in monthly page views from Jan-2018 to Mar-2019. (99m down to just over 30m)!

A Gerald Ratner prawn sandwich moment, if ever there was one ...
https://www.businessblogshub.com/2012/09/the-man-who-destroyed-his-multi-million-dollar-company-in-10-seconds/


I don't know the figures, and figures may or may not indicate real strength, which I suspect resides more in the hands of regular posters than in those who fall into the site by accident, as many seem to do into my own website, if the Weebly numbers indicate anything that makes sense.

As others and myself have indicated, photography forums may well just be suffering the same consequences as have professional photographers in many cases: they have become irrelevant. People, by and large, are delighted with their cellphone output, and want nothing more. And who can blame them? A toe in the photo waters soon shows just how much time and money you have to be able and willing to invest to do what: spend time chatting about it online, counting the hairs on your pet cat's ears, swooning over the amazing OOF bokeh of its tail?

The division between pro and am has become huge, almost unbridgeable in most cases. We have a few fat cats here - lucky they - with all the gear any pro would want - ever - but they are the exception. I can tell you this: apart from a natural, instinctive aversion to the entire digital way of photography which I feel is sterile, the very cost of getting set up would never have let me enter the profession on my own as I could and did back in the 60s. An Exakta and and an old Rolleiflex, a basic, amateur Gnome enlarger and away I went. Today? Are you kidding?

So what, exactly, other than tech guidance - which LuLa already offers in heaps - can photographic websites offer? Even private websites for pros seem to be becoming second-fiddle to social media presence. I really think it and all of the rest are simply going through the evolutionary changed of the day, exactly as does everything and everybody else.

When electricity eventually becomes rationed, not based on abiity to pay, it'll be the end of such frivolities anyway.

;-)

 

KLaban

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 07:35:11 am »

Rather sad that the political discussions bun-fights are the most popular threads on this a photography forum. They are divisive, destructive and belly-laughs apart are utterly pointless.

If, as RobC has said, the photography forums are indeed irrelevant then why on earth bother?
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Rob C

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2019, 08:03:48 am »

Rather sad that the political discussions bun-fights are the most popular threads on this a photography forum. They are divisive, destructive and belly-laughs apart are utterly pointless.

If, as RobC has said, the photography forums are indeed irrelevant then why on earth bother?

The simple answer, Keith, is that the bun-fights are more interesting than another guy's new lens.

Rob

RSL

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2019, 08:17:17 am »

Until they become sufficiently soporiferous to put to sleep all but the fanatics.
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Manoli

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2019, 08:44:38 am »

Rob, Keith,

Go back a few years snd read some of the old threads. It wasnít politics, more current affairs - everything from hi-fi , wine, the Canadian health service and more. In fact some of the biggest (and more entertaining) bust-ups were both pro and photography related.

I wonít even mention the threads on RAW V DNG.
Good old days , when humour wasnít drowned in male testosterone.
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KLaban

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Re: Politics -
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2019, 08:48:14 am »

Rob, Keith,

Go back a few years snd read some of the old threads. It wasnít politics, more current affairs - everything from hi-fi , wine, the Canadian health service and more. In fact some of the biggest (and more entertaining) bust-ups were both pro and photography related.

I wonít even mention the threads on RAW V DNG.
Good old days , when humour wasnít drowned in male testosterone.

I'm not saying the coffee corner should go and at least the "RAW V DNG" threads were photography related.

;-)
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