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Author Topic: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers  (Read 5703 times)

LesPalenik

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Female teachers are badly wanted at the University of Technology in Eindhoven, Netherlands. Not only the male candidates are disqualified, but the hired women will receive a bonus starter gift of an extra €100,000. In early seventies, I spent a few months at Philips Computers unit in Eindhoven with many engineers coming from that University and they seemed reasonably well adjusted and fully qualified for their positions, despite being taught mainly by male professors.

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For the next 18 months, all academic jobs at Eindhoven University of Technology will be open to female candidates only in an effort to improve the balance between men and women on the permanent staff.
Female newcomers will also be given an extra starter package, including €100,000 which they can use for their own research and a special mentoring programme, the university said.

150 times  €100,000 comes to 15 milllion euros which could be used for better things than the totally unnecessary perks for the new female recruits. I wouldn't expect any increase in quality of the graduates.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/06/eindhoven-university-opens-academic-jobs-to-women-only/
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 07:26:22 am by LesPalenik »
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Rob C

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2019, 05:07:04 am »

All because those women libbers of the 70s decided that bringing up the next generation was only for useless women. So there you are, folks, your grannies were clearly ignorant idiots, as were many of your mothers.

Not only is it today politically correct nonsense gone mad, but social engineering too. The lunatics really are running much of the show; guess that's progressive.

Rob

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 05:19:24 am »

Equality of outcomes vs equality of opportunity. Easy to support the latter, the former requires ludicrous levels of social intervention and is a recipe for disaster.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 05:49:17 am »

In Canada, in 2015, the Liberal party won a majority and when Justin Trudeau started to govern in late 2015, his first act was to establish "equality" in government. Not by merit, but by numbers.

The 42nd Canadian Parliament includes a record number of female Members of Parliament, with 88 women elected to the 338-member House of Commons of Canada (26%) in the 2015 election. This represents a gain of twelve seats over the previous record of 76 women. That however was not enough for Trudeau.  In November 2015, he proudly announced that because it was 2015, a new era, the new cabinet would include 15 men and 15 women. 15 men out of 250 men (6% representation)  and 15 women out of 88 women (17% representation). In other words, the women were 3 times overrepresented compared to men.   

Although some of the chosen women proved to be very capable, as one would expect, there were also some duds, and some of those duds contributed to Trudeau's downfall. And consequently, right now it looks like voter's euphoria with Trudeau and Liberals has faded and that party won't be reelected again.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 06:13:56 am by LesPalenik »
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Rob C

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 06:29:05 am »

That's always the problem. People have to rise by their own work or it doesn't, well, work out too well.

I suppose it's also the perennial problem with nepotism. However folks defend it in governement, having the royal ear is not enough: you have to be able to feed that ear good advice based on experience and real, broad understanding of your subject. It doesn't come from all-expenses-paid trips to multi-course dinners under a tent! Unless, of couse, we are speaking about the experience of defending yourself against mosquitoes.

Long term ambassadors do get to know the movers and shakers. It's a failing of some countries to throw out experienced people on change of party in power. A well-established member of the civil service can develop contacts that no new "now you see him, now you don't" political appointee ever does, especially in the world where things are not cast in the Western mould. It's people in power not getting that point that creates much international damage. Startiing everthing over again from step 1 is as fustrating for the others, as is a loss of experienced heads a geat disadvantage in lost contunuity for the new government taking over.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 06:34:48 am by Rob C »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 07:02:56 am »

All because those women libbers of the 70s decided that bringing up the next generation was only for useless women. So there you are, folks, your grannies were clearly ignorant idiots, as were many of your mothers.

Rob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT6cB6vMWYU
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Rob C

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 07:12:57 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT6cB6vMWYU


Really funny link! The graphics are brilliant - and the characterisations pitch-perfect.

Rob

JoeKitchen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 08:48:30 am »

Female teachers are badly wanted at the University of Technology in Eindhoven, Netherlands. Not only the male candidates are disqualified, but the hired women will receive a bonus starter gift of an extra €100,000. In early seventies, I spent a few months at Philips Computers unit in Eindhoven with many engineers coming from that University and they seemed reasonably well adjusted and fully qualified for their positions, despite being taught mainly by male professors.

150 times  €100,000 comes to 15 milllion euros which could be used for better things than the totally unnecessary perks for the new female recruits. I wouldn't expect any increase in quality of the graduates.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/06/eindhoven-university-opens-academic-jobs-to-women-only/

I doubt this will do anything, which I think you tend to agree with. 

Men tend to be more interested in things, while woman tend to be more interested in people.  The separation at the mean is a standard deviation for each interest when comparing men vs. women.  However, it is not the average person (or those only averagely interested) that really go into these fields.  It is the people at the extreme end, those who are very interested. 

If you take two bell curves, say one for men and one for women, and skew them slightly, although the difference at the mean will be little, the differences at the extremes will be much more. 

So for instance, with interest in things, the male curve will be slightly more to the right.  Although the difference of the area under the curve in the middle is not that great, the difference between the area under the curve at the extreme right side will be massive.  There will be a greater area under the men's curve than the women's curve from the same point to infinity. 

This is why many more men choose to go into programming and engineering.  Likewise, the same thing happens, but in reverse, with interest in people, and that is why many more women go into the social fields like nursing. 

This whole progressive movement to try and get more female engineers is completely ignoring the fact that women and men are different, inherently.  It is not a social construct but due to hormonal differences.  It will never be 50/50 in the engineering field, or in nursing field either. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 09:45:46 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 09:20:16 am »

Well, there will come a time, when some of the male students will get fed up with the incompetency of teachers parachuted to their schools based on equality of sex or color.
At such time they might rather join the army or become monks. Which would be a pity.
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elliot_n

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2019, 09:30:05 am »

Well, there will come a time, when some of the male students will get fed up with the incompetency of teachers parachuted to their schools based on equality of sex or color.
At such time they might rather join the army or become monks. Which would be a pity.

They could always join LuLa.
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OmerV

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2019, 09:54:28 am »

I doubt this will do anything, which I think you tend to agree with. 

Men tend to be more interested in things, while woman tend to be more interested in people.  The separation at the mean is a standard deviation for each interest when comparing men vs. women.  However, it is not the average person (or the average interests) that really go into these fields.  It is the people at the extreme end, those who are very interested. 

If you take two bell curves, say one for men and one for women, and skew them slightly, although the difference at the mean will be little, the differences at the extremes will be much more. 

So for instance, with interest in things, the male curve will be slightly more to the left.  Although the difference of the area under the curve in the middle is not that great, the difference between the area under the curve at the extreme left side will be massive.  There will be a greater area under the men's curve than the women's curve from the same point to infinity. 

This is why many more men choose to go into programming and engineering.  Likewise, the same thing happens, but in reverse, with interest in people, and that is why many more women go into the social fields like nursing. 

This whole progressive movement to try and get more female engineers is completely ignoring the fact that women and men are different, inherently.  It is not a social construct but due to hormonal differences.  It will never be 50/50 in the engineering field, or in nursing field either.

Joe, I think you should post this on your photog site.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2019, 10:00:00 am »

Joe, I think you should post this on your photog site.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic because you agree with me or because you are a progressive that thinks the difference between men and women are purely a social construct? ???

Care to clarify?

Also, note I never said women should not be engineers nor that men should never be nurses.  Only that many more men are interested in becoming engineers and many more women are interested in becoming nurses. 

If the later, I would advise you that there have been loads and loads of psychological research done on this field that nearly all disagree with the progressives.  The most interesting is the study on how boys vs. girls play in pre-school and how they handle conflicts. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:07:19 am by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2019, 10:25:40 am »

Joe, I think you should post this on your photog site.

Here is a better written blog post then I could with drawings that shows what I was trying to explain when talking about bell curves.  In the post, the author shows how two bell curves only slightly off at the mean can have really big differences at the extreme, and it is at the extreme where the exceptional individuals come from. He also talks about a fat tail dynamic, which makes the bell curve for traits less normal, but still susceptible to differences on the extremes.

On the real possibility of human differences

I found this using a quick Google search, and only posting it because the diagrams show the differences in the bell curves a lot better that trying to explain them.  The rest of the article, although interesting, is not something I necessarily completely agree with. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:34:49 am by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2019, 10:43:26 am »

One needs to remember that there was a large history of sexism in employment in the US until the mid-1970s when equal opportunity began to be widely adapted.  In WWII there was a large employment of women in various manufacturing industries because men were drafted to fight and there was a need for workers to build planes, tanks, etc.  My mother worked in the aircraft industry after graduating from college in 1944.  Her employment ceased the day after the peace treaty was signed with Japan ending the hostilities.  the same happened to many other women and it was routine for returning soldiers to take their jobs back.  For the most part women were consigned to clerical, teaching, and nursing careers from 1945 to about 1975.  there were also anti-nepotism regulations that prohibited a husband and wife from holding teaching positions at most universities.  One of the lone exceptions were government research facilities which did not have such prohibitions.

Certainly there are more women pursuing STEM careers than was common forty years ago.  I think I saw a statistic that there is almost a 50-50 mix in medical school enrollment now.  As long as there is equal opportunity things will pretty much even out over the long run.  I think there still tends to be a bias against the hiring of women in certain STEM fields.  the same thing existed at philharmonic orchestras until they moved to doing blind auditions where the musician was  not seen by the listeners.  Many more women succeeded in this manner.
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OmerV

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2019, 10:52:34 am »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic because you agree with me or because you are a progressive that thinks the difference between men and women are purely a social construct? ???

Care to clarify?

Also, note I never said women should not be engineers nor that men should never be nurses.  Only that many more men are interested in becoming engineers and many more women are interested in becoming nurses. 

If the later, I would advise you that there have been loads and loads of psychological research done on this field that nearly all disagree with the progressives.  The most interesting is the study on how boys vs. girls play in pre-school and how they handle conflicts.

I disagree with your logic.

But I was joking in suggesting the posting of your comment. In these politically extreme times, that could be a career mistake.

Anyway, here's a thoughtful attempt at parsing the mountains of info on this subject. It uses the infamous anti-diversity memo written by the Google employee to discuss the lack of diversity in Silicon Valley:

http://theconversation.com/does-biology-explain-why-men-outnumber-women-in-tech-82479

JoeKitchen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2019, 11:35:25 am »

One needs to remember that there was a large history of sexism in employment in the US until the mid-1970s when equal opportunity began to be widely adapted.  In WWII there was a large employment of women in various manufacturing industries because men were drafted to fight and there was a need for workers to build planes, tanks, etc.  My mother worked in the aircraft industry after graduating from college in 1944.  Her employment ceased the day after the peace treaty was signed with Japan ending the hostilities.  the same happened to many other women and it was routine for returning soldiers to take their jobs back.  For the most part women were consigned to clerical, teaching, and nursing careers from 1945 to about 1975.  there were also anti-nepotism regulations that prohibited a husband and wife from holding teaching positions at most universities.  One of the lone exceptions were government research facilities which did not have such prohibitions.

Certainly there are more women pursuing STEM careers than was common forty years ago.  I think I saw a statistic that there is almost a 50-50 mix in medical school enrollment now.  As long as there is equal opportunity things will pretty much even out over the long run.  I think there still tends to be a bias against the hiring of women in certain STEM fields.  the same thing existed at philharmonic orchestras until they moved to doing blind auditions where the musician was  not seen by the listeners.  Many more women succeeded in this manner.

I agree with the first paragraph here, and that allowing equality of opportunity is very important. 

However, I just don't see a 50/50 split eventually manifesting itself in every field. 

Although men and women are technically split in the STEM fields currently in college, like what you mentioned in regards to the medical field, the devil is in the details.  (See below to first diagram posted.  I choose not to post the article since the author was using this data to support his confirmation bias.) 

As you can see, the ratio is about 50/50 overall, but look at engineering and math/computer sciences.  These are very high paying fields, but currently many more men choose to study those fields.  So the real question is what causes these differences in preferences to manifest themselves in high school (the time when someone decides what to study)?  Ability is certainly not it, since girls tend to do better in math then boys in middle school and high school?  So it really has to come down to differences in interests.  Could it be today that some inherent bias in counselors in high school steer girls away from those subjects?  In decades past, maybe, but in the politically correct world of today, I doubt it. 

So there is something else at work, and more then likely it is a combination of many things, of which biological differences in gender interests is one of them. 

The medical part of the chart I find rather interesting and surprising, and since you brought it up, lets look at that.  Clearly it shows many more women studying within that field then men, but what is the break down into subfields.  Studying to be a doctor and a nurse are both included in this number, but what is the ratio of male vs. female doctors and male vs. female nurses?  It is hard to find the break down of those currently studying to become a nurse, but of working nurses, 91% are female.  Since this number will contain nurses from many generations, one can argue that it is skewed high due to previous gender biases.  With that said, the study I got this data from found no significant statistical differences in the data for the last 15 years.  It has been at the 91% amount for a while now, so one could also argue the trend has plateaued.  This means that even though we have been trying to encourage more men to enter nursing, 9% (perhaps 10% will squeak through in a decade) may be the best we can hope for. 

For doctors too, the research initially shows a strong bias towards women.  60% of all doctors under 35 are female.  However, what about the specialities?  Looking at just residencies women were higher in the following: Obstetric & Gynecology (83%), Pediatric (73%), Allergy & Immunology (70%), Medical Genetics (67%) and Dermatology (64%).  However, nearly all residencies for surgery are male dominated; Orthopedic Surgery (85% male), Neurological Surgery (82.5%), Thoracic Surgery (73.8%), Vascular Surgery (67%), Plastic Surgery (62%). 

Admittedly, burn out tends to effect more female doctors then male, and this could be a gender bias issue within the industry.  However, this more then likely would not come into play when a medical student decides on what speciality to study. 

So what causes this? 

Personally, I don't really see an issue with how the specialities in medical school break down.  It still feels like a good fair split overall.  However, surgeons tends to make more (I think) or at least get better press, so obviously for the social justice warriors, the fact that women make up a higher percentage in other fields is meaningless. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:16:37 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2019, 11:40:06 am »

... Not only the male candidates are disqualified, but the hired women will receive a bonus starter gift of an extra €100,000...

150 times  €100,000 comes to 15 milllion euros which could be used for better things than the totally unnecessary perks for the new female recruits. ..

Just another display of the total idiocy by the left.

jeremyrh

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2019, 11:42:27 am »

Just another display of the total idiocy by the left.

Are you sure it's not Muslims to blame?  Can't be too careful!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2019, 11:46:41 am »

Are you sure it's not Muslims to blame?  Can't be too careful!

Are you disputing this comes from the left?

JoeKitchen

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Re: Politically Correct and Expensive Hiring Of University Teachers
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2019, 12:02:34 pm »

I disagree with your logic.

But I was joking in suggesting the posting of your comment. In these politically extreme times, that could be a career mistake.

Anyway, here's a thoughtful attempt at parsing the mountains of info on this subject. It uses the infamous anti-diversity memo written by the Google employee to discuss the lack of diversity in Silicon Valley:

http://theconversation.com/does-biology-explain-why-men-outnumber-women-in-tech-82479

Interesting article and I don't have time to read it fully now.  However, with a quick skim it seems to support my opinion up a degree. 

It does note the biological difference between males and females due to hormonal differences.  It also implies the idea that over lapping bell curves off by only a little at the mean can have large effects on the extremes. 

The article does also list nurture causes in differences as well, and I think the most important line in the article is"

"Many pundits make the mistake of assuming that scientific evidence favoring sociocultural causes for the dearth of women in tech invalidates biological causes, or vice versa. These assumptions are far too simplistic because most complex human behaviors reflect some mix of nature and nurture."

My point is that even if we equalize all of the sociological differences in how we raise girls and boys, essentially canceling the differences out, biological differences will still be present and prevent a 50/50 split from developing in many fields. 
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