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Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 50777 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1280 on: January 11, 2020, 11:59:50 am »

Well, it's about 60 degrees F right now in New Jersey and humid.  No rain.

Craig Lamson

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1281 on: January 11, 2020, 03:47:15 pm »

Well, it's about 60 degrees F right now in New Jersey and humid.  No rain.

Itís been raining heavily here in NE Indiana.  The golf course behind me is massively flooded.   I be happy to send some of this to OZ
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MurrayFoote

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1282 on: January 11, 2020, 08:58:29 pm »

This is why I find the widespread mania about the harmful effects of CO2 on climate, very troubling. The practical solution to our problems are more flood-mitigation dams and long-distance water pipes, stricter building codes based upon the past history of extreme weather events in the region, regular burn-off of forest debris during safe conditions, as the Aboriginals used to do, and so on.

Itís not a question of religion, itís a question of science.  Whether we are in a Climate Crisis caused by human actions such as burning fossil fuels is a question for scientists to answer.  And they have.  It doesnít really matter how comfortable we are with the way things are.  The governments of all developed countries apart from Australia and the United States recognise the necessity to deal with man-made climate change.  In Australia itís not just the scientists, itís also the fire chiefs that are calling for that because they have seen how unprecedented current conditions are.

Increases in average temperature donít just affect bushfires and extreme weather events, they also affect the viability of agricultural land and the availability of water.  The longer we wait to address underlying causes of change, the more drastic the responses will need to be and the less effective they may be.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1283 on: January 11, 2020, 10:27:00 pm »

Itís not a question of religion, itís a question of science.  Whether we are in a Climate Crisis caused by human actions such as burning fossil fuels is a question for scientists to answer.  And they have.  It doesnít really matter how comfortable we are with the way things are. The governments of all developed countries apart from Australia and the United States recognise the necessity to deal with man-made climate change.  In Australia itís not just the scientists, itís also the fire chiefs that are calling for that because they have seen how unprecedented current conditions are.

Increases in average temperature donít just affect bushfires and extreme weather events, they also affect the viability of agricultural land and the availability of water.  The longer we wait to address underlying causes of change, the more drastic the responses will need to be and the less effective they may be.



This isn;t true.  China and India who produce 37% of the CO2 do not have to conform to any reduction requirements until 2030.  By that time, they may be producing half the world's man-made CO2.  CHina is building 850 coal fired electric plants throughout the world.  Meanwhile, America, who is second in producing CO2, has reduced its percentage from 17% to 14%, less than half of what China produces.  Without China and India, we're whistling in the wind.  In any case, we may be left with remediation rather than prevention, even if we could change the end results which many now agree is an impossible criteria to meet. 

MurrayFoote

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1284 on: January 12, 2020, 12:17:08 am »

It is true.  I said developed countries.

We have a serious problem that is only going to escalate if we do nothing.  California for example is doing its best but Trump is pulling out of international climate conventions and Morrison is using accounting trickery to pretend that Australia is doing anything at all.  The problem was originally with developed countries and if we do not show leadership we cannot expect to persuade others.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1285 on: January 12, 2020, 05:32:47 am »

... In Australia itís not just the scientists, itís also the fire chiefs that are calling for that because they have seen how unprecedented current conditions are....

OMG, this takes the cake! Fire chiefs spoke! Imagine! They have as much to say about science as your local priest.

Rob C

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1286 on: January 12, 2020, 06:36:36 am »

OMG, this takes the cake! Fire chiefs spoke! Imagine! They have as much to say about science as your local priest.

If he's a Jesuit, he may have a great deal to contribute.

;-)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1287 on: January 12, 2020, 07:20:41 am »

OMG, this takes the cake! Fire chiefs spoke! Imagine! They have as much to say about science as your local priest.

Fire chiefs know how to read a fire better that most scientists, it's a matter of life and dead to them.
Scientists can use their valuable input.

I don't know why, but some folks keep demonstrating their lack of understanding of the Scientific method, and they only add cheap shots instead of contributing something useful, like a possible solution. So far, your stance seems to be that future technology will solve all issues. Yet very little evidence is supplied, so it remains cheap.

The scientific method starts with observations!

In this particular case, the people in Australia seem to have a different perspective on what technology can do to save lives, livelihood, and property. The billion or so animals that got scorched, of course, have no say in this.

Also, the feral Camels face the first culling of some 10,000 animals, because they have become a pest to people and other animals in their search for water.

Camel cull in South Australia's remote APY Lands to begin, following sharp increase in population
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-07/camel-cull-in-apy-lands-begins/11848716
Quote
The first mass cull of feral camels in South Australia's remote north-west will start tomorrow, after dry conditions have seen the pest's numbers dramatically increase in the region as they seek water.

Key points:

The SA environment department estimates 10,000 camels are flocking to water sources APY Lands' Richard King said the camels destroy air conditioners to access moisture. Traditional owners previously mustered and sold the camels, but numbers are now too large

The population increase has resulted in significant damage to infrastructure and is a danger to families and communities in the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (APY) Lands, according to the South Australian Department for Environment and Water (DEW).

DEW estimates 10,000 camels are flocking to water sources, including tanks, taps and any available water.

APY Lands manager Richard King said the camels had come right into communities looking for water.

The "do nothing" (except adding to the problem), "someone else will do something to survive", is a needlessly expensive, lazy, and irresponsible "AprŤs nous le dťluge" attitude.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 08:06:05 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1288 on: January 12, 2020, 07:48:07 am »

... So far, your stance seems to be that future technology will solve all issues...

For once, you understood me correctly.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1289 on: January 12, 2020, 08:05:40 am »

For once, you understood me correctly.

You're an open book, even if one thinks that cloaking oneself in multi-interpretable comments would suggest intelligence.
Debating tricks do not provide solutions.

A non-answer remains just that. Not helpful.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 08:12:15 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
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Ray

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1290 on: January 12, 2020, 08:50:10 am »

Itís not a question of religion, itís a question of science.  Whether we are in a Climate Crisis caused by human actions such as burning fossil fuels is a question for scientists to answer.  And they have. 

That's true. The scientists have provided answers - thousands of answers on thousands of climate related topics, and not all of the answers are consistent by any means.

The climate system is complex, chaotic and non-linear. Future unexpected, large and rapid climate system changes (as have occurred in the past) are, by their nature, difficult to predict. This implies that future climate changes may also involve Ďsurprises'. In particular, these arise from the non-linear, chaotic nature of the climate system.

Didn't you know that?   :(

I'm quoting from the IPCC.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1291 on: January 12, 2020, 10:19:00 am »

That's true. The scientists have provided answers - thousands of answers on thousands of climate related topics, and not all of the answers are consistent by any means.

They are consistent, in that not everything is know yet (which doesn't mean that nothing is known). There are processes we can learn to understand and predict better, and the interactions are complex. But there is a large agreement on most subjects.

The actual observations often do match the predicted results, like rising global temperatures and rising sea-levels. There will usually be a margin of uncertainty, like how does humanity change its behavior? So that's why one makes models and given the correct inputs, the approx. correct results will be given.

Quote
The climate system is complex, chaotic and non-linear. Future unexpected, large and rapid climate system changes (as have occurred in the past) are, by their nature, difficult to predict. This implies that future climate changes may also involve Ďsurprises'. In particular, these arise from the non-linear, chaotic nature of the climate system.


So? We therefore improve our understanding, and base our actions on the best insights we have so far. It tells us exactly that we should not wait until we know everything, because 'everything' will probably not happen (and not in time), and it will be too costly to first destroy and then rebuild if even possible. And if things turn out even worse than expected, we've maneuvered ourselves in an impossible situation.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1292 on: January 12, 2020, 10:20:45 am »

It is true.  I said developed countries.

We have a serious problem that is only going to escalate if we do nothing.  California for example is doing its best but Trump is pulling out of international climate conventions and Morrison is using accounting trickery to pretend that Australia is doing anything at all.  The problem was originally with developed countries and if we do not show leadership we cannot expect to persuade others.
That's crazy.  China is a developed country.  Economically its second in the world.  I just bought a 4x5 camera from them.  How many does Australia or the US make?  IF you leave China out of the formula, you'll never get a handle on CO2.  You'll be spitting into the wind.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1293 on: January 12, 2020, 10:23:31 am »

Australia's indigenous people have a solution for the country's bushfires. And it's been around for 50,000 years
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/12/world/aboriginal-australia-fire-trnd/index.html

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1294 on: January 12, 2020, 10:41:13 am »

Quote
So far, your stance seems to be that future technology will solve all issues...

Hardly! For example, even the best engineers and doctors were not able to speed up the human 9-month gestation time.

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1295 on: January 12, 2020, 10:47:38 am »

That's crazy.  China is a developed country.  Economically its second in the world.  I just bought a 4x5 camera from them.  How many does Australia or the US make?  IF you leave China out of the formula, you'll never get a handle on CO2.  You'll be spitting into the wind.

I thought you wanted to buy Sony RX100 camera to lighten your load. Do Chinese make now tiny 4x5 cameras?

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1296 on: January 12, 2020, 10:57:34 am »

I thought you wanted to buy Sony RX100 camera to lighten your load. Do Chinese make now tiny 4x5 cameras?
I got a terrible case of GAS before my birthday and succumbed.  I do already shoot medium format film with my Mamiya RB67.  So first I bought a chimney viewfinder for it, a sports viewfinder and another light meter.  They weren't enough.  The GAS was eating at me.  So I pulled the trigger.  However, on the good side, the 4x5 weighs less than the Mamiya.  The 4x5 lenses are lighter too.  Plus, it's such a pretty camera -teak, black metal and carbon fiber. http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45h1

 You know I'm going to shoot better.  Right?  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1297 on: January 12, 2020, 11:00:21 am »

PS I do have an RX100 that I use when running around on vacation.  It's light and pocketable.  Film is for my contemplative moments similar to posting in the Coffee Corner. :)

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1298 on: January 12, 2020, 11:05:57 am »

I still have Fuji GX617 film camera with an excellent optical viewfinder. It's quite bulky but relatively light.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1299 on: January 12, 2020, 11:12:46 am »

Your Fuji apparently has held its value unlike my RB67 equipment.  The 4x5 I just bought can handle different backs beside 4x5 including  4x10, 5x7 (horizontal only), and 6x17.  So I have great options for future GAS attacks. 
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