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Author Topic: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19  (Read 4574 times)

hubell

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2019, 09:35:16 am »

You're the one bringing Fuji into this discussion.

...you must be aware about the fact that the world keeps evolving. When the X1D was released, Fuji also only had contrast AF. This isn't the case any longer. So yes, X1D customer accepted the limitation of the AF of their camera... but there was nothing better at the time. I would agree that the GFX100 isn't in the same category as the X1D/GFX50 since its much more bulky and that as we speak all compact MF bodies still only feature contrast AF, but we all know that the GFX50 II will most probably get on sensor PDAF also and it cannot be more than a few months away.

I am not a Fuji customer poking fun at Hasselblad. I am a customer of both companies who is worried about his very high investment in Hasselblad.

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, I brought Fuji into the discussion. Until Fuji entered the medium format market, photographers  understood and accepted that you didnít buy a medium format camera expecting to get the kind of ďfeature richĒ experience that you would get with a Sony or Canikon or whatever. (Thankfully, IMO.)Fuji changed the landscape overnight. Fuji is trying to import into the medium format market the same features, menus and overall Gestalt as you would find in its APS-C cameras. So, what happened to the two major existing players in medium format digital? Phase essentially left town. Hasselblad has chosen a different path, by creating the X1D and now refining the X1D, which offers a clear and distinct alternative to what Fuji is offering, particularly in the GFX 100. This is GOOD! There is still a choice for those who arenít interested in the GFX line and what FUJi is trying to offer. I bet that if you polled 1,000 buyers of the X1D and asked them what was the single most important feature of the original that they did not want to change in the Mark II, 1,000 would have said the form factor. If the choice is between IBIS with a bigger camera and no IBIS with the same body, 1,000 would vote for the latter.
BTW, if the Fuji GFX 50S/R II uses the same Sony 50 MP sensor, how can they offer on sensor
PDAF? 

faberryman

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2019, 09:38:56 am »

BTW, if the Fuji GFX 50S/R II uses the same Sony 50 MP sensor, how can they offer on sensor PDAF?
Upcoming PDAF is for the GFX100, not the GFX50S/50R.

eronald

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2019, 11:20:50 am »

You must have missed it. They announced an upgraded camera called the X1D II that does what you suggest a couple of days ago.

So what is shutter lag now? Nobody seems willing to say

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SrMi

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2019, 01:33:42 pm »

So what is shutter lag now? Nobody seems willing to say

Edmund

Shutter lag was not bad with Mark I and should be improved with Mark II. More bothersome was the blackout after the shot. The blackout should have been improved with Mark II as well. I think we need to wait until X1D II ships with final firmware before we can read about the shutter-lag.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2019, 05:15:32 pm »

Upcoming PDAF is for the GFX100, not the GFX50S/50R.

There are 2 options
- integration of the 100mp part in the compact form factor body that I called misleadingly GFX50 II. The fact that Fuji has decided to package the 102mp part in a higher end GFX100 does not necessarily mean that it could be used in a more compact body, for example without IBIS,

- modification of the 50mp part to add pdaf. I am not sure whether Fuji can do this with sensor toppings changes alone or whether a modification of the sensor base is needed. My understanding, but I could be wrong, is that pdaf is implemented in a layer on top of the sensels ans not in them, which is a key difference with the approach used by Canon?

Cheers,
Bernard

BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2019, 12:46:31 am »

Shutter lag was not bad with Mark I and should be improved with Mark II. More bothersome was the blackout after the shot. The blackout should have been improved with Mark II as well. I think we need to wait until X1D II ships with final firmware before we can read about the shutter-lag.
Here is a video test shoot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct_jNFwDN2U&frags=wn

If you are doing tripod work then the MQ mode on the old camera really speeds it up.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2019, 05:57:23 pm »

Those people who invested a lot of money to buy a CFV back to supercharge a horse have been rewarded for their nostalgic tear in eye love of the 50 year old square format V series with a new body and the ability to use not just V series lenses but X and even H series as well. If you were looking for a portrait format camera then the 500 series was never that.

My understanding is the only back able to use the 907x is the new CFV 50c II model with the additional pins to support the camera to lens communication.  As to a 'portrait' camera, Phase did quite well selling a back that could be rotated into that orientation, while film shooters would just crop accordingly.

Given the frame rate limitations on the legacy 50mp chip, doing things like adding PDAF or increasing the bandwidth for more fps just isn't profitable for Sony.  I wonder what the next Sony roadmap will entail - given they've doubled the resolution on the largest MF camera (80mp CCD to 150mp CMOS).  Hopefully these two most recent chips will get 2+ years before a next gen comes out.

Hasselblad has a lot of work to do around both platforms, and will need to invest in their dealers to accomplish their goals.
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BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2019, 08:01:08 pm »

Hasselblad has a lot of work to do around both platforms, and will need to invest in their dealers to accomplish their goals.
No doubt there will be a trade-in program as there is on the H series.
I think that they will sell every one of these that they make.
It was not the long ago that people could only dream of owning a Hasselblad as they cost the price of a pretty good car.
Now even enthusiasts can buy one if they want.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2019, 10:52:48 pm »

While there are lots of folks who talk about wanting to own a Hasselblad, the actual purchase of them hasn't been to the same level. 

The larger problem is the dealer relationships - the number of mis-steps by Hasselblad has hurt them.  For example, the CFV 50c, they never put it in dealers hands so folks could try them out on their Hasselblad cameras.  There needs to be one at every dealer, available for rentals & as a loaner unit - to the point where folks can experience them & decide it's the accessory that they've been missing.  Counter space is expensive & the training that the staff needs to best sell & support the cameras is important.  It's doable, but it is a business decision that Hasselblad has to make.

Unfortunately I see all the work Hass will put into the X & CFV platforms comes at a cost to the H platform.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2019, 11:03:45 pm »

Unfortunately I see all the work Hass will put into the X & CFV platforms comes at a cost to the H platform.

Very much my feeling also.

Cheers,
Bernard

Kirk_C

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2019, 04:17:36 am »

Unfortunately I see all the work Hass will put into the X & CFV platforms comes at a cost to the H platform.

I don't see a future for the H platform and I'd be surprised in Hasselblad does either.

Hence the development to support the classics and the XD II while they develop the H series replacement, IMHO.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2019, 06:04:15 am »

I don't see a future for the H platform and I'd be surprised in Hasselblad does either.

Hence the development to support the classics and the XD II while they develop the H series replacement, IMHO.

Frankly speaking, tech camera usage is pretty much the only use case that still makes sense for 6x45 sensor in a post GFX100 world.

I agree that the H platform is probably dead as a competitive camera platform for productive work (just like the XF platform btw), but I still would like Hasselblad to release an H7D-150 back.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:08:42 am by BernardLanguillier »
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2019, 09:07:06 am »

Ive loved the H platform, own one,  and have used the H for years.  However, when shot side by side to a modern Mirrorless camera with IBIS and 1/4 the weight....it really starts feeling like a dinosaur.  I was fine with all the downsides of an H...but lately itís feeling time to modernize.  More and more so as Mirrorless gets better. 
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2019, 09:59:08 am »

While there are lots of folks who talk about wanting to own a Hasselblad, the actual purchase of them hasn't been to the same level. 

The larger problem is the dealer relationships - the number of mis-steps by Hasselblad has hurt them.  For example, the CFV 50c, they never put it in dealers hands so folks could try them out on their Hasselblad cameras.  There needs to be one at every dealer, available for rentals & as a loaner unit - to the point where folks can experience them & decide it's the accessory that they've been missing.  Counter space is expensive & the training that the staff needs to best sell & support the cameras is important.  It's doable, but it is a business decision that Hasselblad has to make.

Unfortunately I see all the work Hass will put into the X & CFV platforms comes at a cost to the H platform.


There have been very very serious mis-steps with the dealer relationships, at least from the standpoint of most of their previous and remaining dealers. To the extent that I would not call them mis-steps but intentional re-directs and business model changes. If you value a strong dealer channel, you don't cut your dealer margins to less than half of what they were previously. You do not sell against them. You do not pool assets to one primary distribution resource at the expense of the remaining channel. These are not missteps, but intentional course changes that ultimately may or may not be helpful to Hasselblad. That remains to be seen.

With that said, it is not incumbent upon the manufacturer to provide "loaners" to dealers. It is incumbent upon dealers to purchase demonstration equipment. It is also incumbent upon dealers to educate themselves on the product and to provide a robust support mechanism for clients purchasing that equipment. For that (minimally), it is helpful if the manufacturer is knowledgable and accessible to augment the learning path that the dealers themselves have already embarked upon. To sell high end products requires a sincere and serious commitment from the dealer. It should be a partnership.


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« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 10:06:21 am by Steve Hendrix »
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SrMi

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2019, 10:32:40 am »

Ive loved the H platform, own one,  and have used the H for years.  However, when shot side by side to a modern Mirrorless camera with IBIS and 1/4 the weight....it really starts feeling like a dinosaur.  I was fine with all the downsides of an H...but lately itís feeling time to modernize.  More and more so as Mirrorless gets better.

Fuji GFX 100: 1400g
Hasselblad H6D-100c: 1655g

Mirrorless is not really 1/4 the weight and note that Hasselblad has a larger sensor. I wish there would be a lighter mirrorless 100Mp camera (maybe with no IBIS, no video).
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2019, 11:45:53 am »

Fuji GFX 100: 1400g
Hasselblad H6D-100c: 1655g

Fuji 120/4 macro: 980 g
HC 120/4 macro: 1410 g

Fuji 45: 490 g
HC 50: 975 g

Fuji 32-64: 875 g
HC 50-110: 1.65kg
HCD 35-90: 1.4 kg

Fuji 250: 1.4 kg
HC 300: 2.12 kg



SrMi

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2019, 12:10:46 pm »

Fuji 120/4 macro: 980 g
HC 120/4 macro: 1410 g

Fuji 45: 490 g
HC 50: 975 g

Fuji 32-64: 875 g
HC 50-110: 1.65kg
HCD 35-90: 1.4 kg

Fuji 250: 1.4 kg
HC 300: 2.12 kg

TonyVentourisPhotography talked about camera weight, but he probably meant system weight. Maybe he was comparing m43 with MF as well?

Yep the lenses are heavier, still far away from 1/4 weight claim :-), even though we are comparing a larger (H6D) to a smaller (GFX) sensor camera.

It is a pity that Fuji did not launch a smaller and lighter 100Mp camera (maybe without IBIS and video). Looking forward to your posts about GFX100.
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2019, 12:21:41 pm »

The H-System is my favorite Hasselblad camera. The H6D-100c is not so heavy and well balanced with most of my lenses from 24mm to 150mm. The optical viewfinder is much more better than every EVF. I think the H-System do have a future for Hasselblad. If we need an expensive 150 MP Back - I think not.  :D
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2019, 12:28:16 pm »

TonyVentourisPhotography talked about camera weight, but he probably meant system weight. Maybe he was comparing m43 with MF as well?

Yep the lenses are heavier, still far away from 1/4 weight claim :-), even though we are comparing a larger (H6D) to a smaller (GFX) sensor camera.

It is a pity that Fuji did not launch a smaller and lighter 100Mp camera (maybe without IBIS and video). Looking forward to your posts about GFX100.

The weight differences were significant enough to me that I sold all of my H system gear soon after I started using the GFX.

I agree with you on the GFX 100 design choices. I'm hoping to have mine at the end of the week.

Jim

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad X Announcement on 6/19
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2019, 03:14:32 pm »

Fuji 120/4 macro: 980 g
HC 120/4 macro: 1410 g

Fuji 45: 490 g
HC 50: 975 g

Fuji 32-64: 875 g
HC 50-110: 1.65kg
HCD 35-90: 1.4 kg

Fuji 250: 1.4 kg
HC 300: 2.12 kg

Indeed, the one exception being the portrait lens.

Fuji 110: 1010 gr
HC 100: 780 gr

But the HC is a much more simple design that is not that well corrected.

Now looking at it from another perspective, it means that shooting portrait with a leaf shutter lens on the GFX through the adapter has little weight penalty.

The Hasselblad 100mm f2.2 is likely to remain a collector lens for this reason. Thatís the only HC lens I bought new in its latest orange dot version enabling 1/1000s synchro for this very reason. ;)

This being said the Fuji is probably a much better lens and oof highlights are likely to be nicer on the non leaf shutter optic,

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 03:19:36 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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