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Author Topic: Counting down...  (Read 12392 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2019, 08:05:56 am »

Yep. A country with roads and schools and hospitals. All typical socialist stuff...

Which one? That must have been a country I, or anyone else, never heard of. Imagine, a country with roads and schools and hospitals. Who would have thought of that!?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2019, 08:08:15 am »

... Some travellers travel to a communist country, see dilapidated buildings, and conclude that dilapidation is an inevitable result of a political system...

And your conclusion would be...? American imperialism?

Rob C

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2019, 08:10:31 am »

Because a bunch of crazy people got violent.

But why?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2019, 08:28:19 am »

But why?

You missed the “crazy” part? And I mean batshit crazy, like AOC currently.

jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2019, 08:45:55 am »

You missed the “crazy” part? And I mean batshit crazy.

Better not let Alan hear you describe George Washington that way - he'll have a seizure!
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jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2019, 08:46:46 am »

Which one? That must have been a country I, or anyone else, never heard of. Imagine, a country with roads and schools and hospitals. Who would have thought of that!?

Dunno, mate. Just trying to answer your question.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2019, 08:48:11 am »

Yep. A country with roads and schools and hospitals. All typical socialist stuff.

Any of you lovers of no government actually lived in a country with no government?

If you're referring to Cuba, sure people can read.  The problem is if you read something the government doesn;t want you to read, the government breaks your arm.  Well, at least you get sent to a hospital where said government sets your broken arm for free.  Is that the kind of schools and medical care you are referring too?

jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2019, 08:50:07 am »

If you're referring to Cuba,


No I wasn't. You maybe missed the question that I was responding to, and hence the point I was making.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2019, 08:51:40 am »

Which one? That must have been a country I, or anyone else, never heard of. Imagine, a country with roads and schools and hospitals. Who would have thought of that!?

Who would have thought of that?  Lots of people, I imagine. Who would have paid for that off their own bat? Different answer ...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2019, 08:53:51 am »

No I wasn't. You maybe missed the question that I was responding to, and hence the point I was making.

Well, in America, all the socialist and communist admirers always refer to how great Cuba's medicine and schools are.  They use to say the same things about the Soviet Union.  Of course they don't mention that you're not free to read what you want.  What good is being educated if you can only read government propaganda? 

jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2019, 08:57:17 am »

Well, in America, all the socialist and communist admirers always refer to how great Cuba's medicine and schools are.  They use to say the same things about the Soviet Union.  Of course they don't mention that you're not free to read what you want.  What good is being educated if you can only read government propaganda?

Or Fox news.
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Rob C

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2019, 08:58:51 am »

Well, in America, all the socialist and communist admirers always refer to how great Cuba's medicine and schools are.  They use to say the same things about the Soviet Union.  Of course they don't mention that you're not free to read what you want.  What good is being educated if you can only read government propaganda?

Might be better than comics.

kers

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2019, 09:13:40 am »

Well, in America, all the socialist and communist admirers always refer to how great Cuba's medicine and schools are.  They use to say the same things about the Soviet Union.  Of course they don't mention that you're not free to read what you want.  What good is being educated if you can only read government propaganda?
Have any of you lovers of socialism actually ever been in a socialist country?

I think many of  us would not like to live in a country that has no freedom of speech nor a democratic vote. A Socialist system, a Capitalistic system or any other.
Most of the countries in Europe or even the US are a combination of capitalism and socialism.

The socialistic part is funded with tax. People that earn more pay relatively more tax, Because they can afford that, without compromizing their wealth of living.
Because of that the income difference after tax is lowered.
A lot of problems cannot be solved through capitalism alone since there is no direct profit to gain out of many necessary work.
Take firemen (- take failing banks!)- take policemen- take road constructors- they all are paid by tax- in a socialist manner - by the government.
Maybe the Netherlands, where i live, can be called some more socialistic than the USA, but the basis is not that much different.
We pay more tax and get in return better healthcare, roads without holes, etc  than countries that pay less tax.
Apart from that it is the quality of the government that counts. Here we have a culture to discuss with all related parties to solve our common problems.
This often result in a compromise that everybody can live with, but is not ideal for any of them. This something special in the Netherlands and has good and bad sides. In this manner we just solved the pension system for the coming years after nine years of discussing with many parties.

Just want to say that Socialism is also a part of how the US is governed as is Capitalism and that is a necessary part.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 09:17:09 am by kers »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2019, 09:15:06 am »

Might be better than comics.

Not only better than comics, but in such regimes the suppressed press and speech freedom are instrumental for creation of many good underground jokes.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2019, 09:21:34 am »


A lot of problems cannot be solved through capitalism alone

Just want to say that Socialism is also a part of how the US is governed

Oh man - now you've done it! I can hear Alan's keyboard from here!!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2019, 09:36:54 am »

... The socialistic part is funded with tax...

Gee, when you redefine common terms, you can prove anything.

Any and every society from the dawn of the mankind had taxes. Didn't make them socialist.

Rob C

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2019, 09:44:07 am »

I think many of  us would not like to live in a country that has no freedom of speech nor a democratic vote. A Socialist system, a Capitalistic system or any other.
Most of the countries in Europe or even the US are a combination of capitalism and socialism.

The socialistic part is funded with tax. People that earn more pay relatively more tax, Because they can afford that, without compromizing their wealth of living.
Because of that the income difference after tax is lowered.
A lot of problems cannot be solved through capitalism alone since there is no direct profit to gain out of many necessary work.
Take firemen (- take failing banks!)- take policemen- take road constructors- they all are paid by tax- in a socialist manner - by the government.
Maybe the Netherlands, where i live, can be called some more socialistic than the USA, but the basis is not that much different.
We pay more tax and get in return better healthcare, roads without holes, etc  than countries that pay less tax.
Apart from that it is the quality of the government that counts. Here we have a culture to discuss with all related parties to solve our common problems.
This often result in a compromise that everybody can live with, but is not ideal for any of them. This something special in the Netherlands and has good and bad sides. In this manner we just solved the pension system for the coming years after nine years of discussing with many parties.

Just want to say that Socialism is also a part of how the US is governed as is Capitalism and that is a necessary part.

Apparently, British roads are full of nids-de-poule - still. The biggest culture shock in the car was going off the excellent French motorway system onto the British one after docking in Dover and finding my way back into the system. Ye gods, what a lesson in relativity!

We pay high taxes - it always felt - and get crap, whereas the French do it privately and get something that's a pleasure, and only costs you as you use the system. Before anyone feels tempted to turn that into a comparison with the health argument, don't bother: it doesn't mesh.

That said, French motorway systems seem to follow the example of the wheel: everything radiates mainly from Paris, and if you want to go west to east, or the other way too, obviously, you have a problem unless just in the south, going from Med to Atlantic, but you still head generally upwards toward Bordeaux via Toulouse; that north/south bias is pretty general. I wonder if it's based on people trying to quit the sticks? ;-) I thought that had been cured... Oh, wait, those yellow waistcoats were incensed by that, and fuel prices, and diesel bans and on and on; there must be an answer - what, watts?

Rob C

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2019, 09:48:38 am »

Oh man - now you've done it! I can hear Alan's keyboard from here!!

That's because he can no longer find the oil for it: the snakes all went south and vanished back into the swamps.

;-)

jeremyrh

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2019, 10:09:53 am »

Gee, when you redefine common terms, you can prove anything.

Any and every society from the dawn of the mankind had taxes. Didn't make them socialist.
So what does, in your view?
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degrub

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Re: Counting down...
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2019, 10:39:42 am »

according to the last 80 or so years of republican spouting after the 1920's - medicare, medicaid, social security, ACA, ADA, etc. Basically anything that aids the more impoverished or disadvantaged members of society.  If you can't pull yourself and family up by your abilities, luck,and connections, then you stay where your are in society.  If it takes government support to help, then that support must smack of "socialism" or worse "communism". It is an easy label to tar anything progressive in this society and maintain the status quo.
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