Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Down

Author Topic: Counting down...  (Read 12137 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #120 on: June 09, 2019, 10:11:51 am »

No way, Alan, you are just peddling fake news! Surely someone would notice their absence!?

“Spanish civil servant who had €50,000 salary but failed to do a day's work for ten years banned from post”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/10/ban-spanish-civil-servant-paid-50000-year-despite-not-turning/

I never got those chances! Damn!

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5080
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #121 on: June 09, 2019, 10:18:03 am »

Rob, “Price’s Law” is a law just like Godwin Law is. Which means it isn’t. Just a rule of thumb. Not a legal document.

Or Parkinson’s Law: "work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."

Okay, so before someone on this forum takes what I said and misconstrues it, Slobo's explination above is how I look at Price's Law.  This is why I used the word theory when bringing it up, and also said "maybe this is another reason..." 

Just nipping the tail in the bud here. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #122 on: June 09, 2019, 10:28:03 am »


Lawyers and going to court: I learned the hard way. I did a week's shoot for a tour operator company, my second for that firm, and during the course of the shoot in Spain the operator's location manager, who was there with me all the time, asked if I could extend the shoot a further week. i asked that he check it out with HQ, and he got back telling me it was okay.

So, I worked that additional week, and job done, sent in my invoice to the advertising agency. You know what's coming: the agency denied all knowledge of that additional week and so I got in touch with a lawyer across the road from my studio at the time.

One thing led to another, and the tour operator decided to claim against me for work that was never on the list I had to cover. I realised I couldn't afford to fight the company, and went to see them. We agreed to call off our respective dogs. The upshot was that the extra week for which the tour operator had asked me to work was never paid, the money the agency paid me for the original week was lost, as was he as a client, in paying the lawyer's fee for writing a couple of letters. And you know what the mother told me at the end of it all? It was my fault for not knowing the difference between the principal contractor (the ad agency) and the tour company, who were not my clients, but those of the ad agency. You'd have imagined the guy could have told me that the day I walked into his office.

As they sometimes say on tv: I rest my case. And yeah, live and learn.

:-)

Your story reminds me of the famous 1930's malaprop by Sam Goldwyn the Hollywood producer of Metro Goldwyn Mayer MGM fame. "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on."

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16748
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #123 on: June 09, 2019, 10:31:52 am »

No, it's why you need better vetting of those you promote to officers, either in the armed forces as per Alan's example, or in public office.

Problem is, Rob, how do you get better vetting?

I became an Air Force officer – a second lieutenant -- in 1952. At that point most of the people I worked for were officers who’d been through WW II, which I’d narrowly missed. They’d been promoted because they could get the job done under difficult and deadly conditions. They knew what they were doing and they were able to do it. There was almost none of the crap Alan talked about.

But as time went on and the old heads retired or died the military became more and more politicized. One of the results was the emphasis on “body counts” in Vietnam, a concept that would be funny if it weren’t so despicable. I managed to get promoted because I could do stuff that needed doing, and could come up with solutions to some of the problems we faced. Finally, in 1972 the general I worked for pinned on my eagles and I became a full colonel. By the time I came back from my second Southeast Asian command the military was rushing to become politically correct. Women were being brought into the military in positions they weren’t capable of filling and were weakening our combat capability, but it was the politically correct thing to do, and our politicians figured we’d never again have to fight the kind of war we fought in WW II, so what the hell difference did it make? I wrote about that in http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/womeninarmedforces.html.

Finally, as Director of Combat Operations in a SAGE center, part of a system that never sould have been built, I decided to retire as soon as I reached my maximum retirement pay point, and three years later did exactly that. I probably could have gone for my star, but it no longer was something that interested me.

The only thing that’ll lead to “better vetting” is an existential threat of some kind. In the meantime, politics will reign supreme.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #124 on: June 09, 2019, 11:11:05 am »

Russ, VietNam was lost at home not on the battlefield as I'm sure you'll agree.  We fought with one hand tied behind our backs.  You measure success not with "body counts" but with land conquered.  We never went into North Vietnam with troops.  The military had to plead with Washington to allow them to at least bomb up there.  And then President Johnson would have to approve the bomb sites.  Johnson was an idiot and a liar who got us into Vietnam unnecessarily.  Kennedy was no better.  At least Eisenhower knew not to save France's backside in the 1950's at Dien Bien Phu.    And the American press treasonously helped turn Americans against the war.  So Congress stopped providing funding to the South and the North took over.  What a waste and shame.  Fortunately I didn't have to serve there as I was stationed in Japan, Hawaii and the States in the mid-60's.  It must have been tough for you to have lost friends and then turning out how it did.   Now we're trading with VietNam.  History is weird. 

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16748
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2019, 02:00:41 pm »

Maybe not too weird, Alan. We’re trading with Japan and Germany too.

The thing that pissed me off most was when Johnson wouldn’t let us hit the NVA AA missile sites until they were operational. So we had to wait until they were ready to go and then send in F-84F Wild Weasel flights to get the NVA to expend their missiles on aircraft that had at least a chance to evade them. I was given an “opportunity” to come back on flying status if I’d fly Wild Weasel. Didn’t even have to think about the answer to that one.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

degrub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2550
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2019, 02:29:41 pm »

Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2019, 04:37:33 pm »

Problem is, Rob, how do you get better vetting?

I became an Air Force officer – a second lieutenant -- in 1952. At that point most of the people I worked for were officers who’d been through WW II, which I’d narrowly missed. They’d been promoted because they could get the job done under difficult and deadly conditions. They knew what they were doing and they were able to do it. There was almost none of the crap Alan talked about.

But as time went on and the old heads retired or died the military became more and more politicized. One of the results was the emphasis on “body counts” in Vietnam, a concept that would be funny if it weren’t so despicable. I managed to get promoted because I could do stuff that needed doing, and could come up with solutions to some of the problems we faced. Finally, in 1972 the general I worked for pinned on my eagles and I became a full colonel. By the time I came back from my second Southeast Asian command the military was rushing to become politically correct. Women were being brought into the military in positions they weren’t capable of filling and were weakening our combat capability, but it was the politically correct thing to do, and our politicians figured we’d never again have to fight the kind of war we fought in WW II, so what the hell difference did it make? I wrote about that in http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/womeninarmedforces.html.

Finally, as Director of Combat Operations in a SAGE center, part of a system that never sould have been built, I decided to retire as soon as I reached my maximum retirement pay point, and three years later did exactly that. I probably could have gone for my star, but it no longer was something that interested me.

The only thing that’ll lead to “better vetting” is an existential threat of some kind. In the meantime, politics will reign supreme.


That's a very illuminating essay, Russ; wasn't there any way of making it more publicly read - maybe in the press - or could that impact your own position in retirement? Maybe waves are not always the best remedy.

Political correctness regarding gender issues is so blindingly stupid that I can't really grasp how people don't see right through it; surely, daily human experience shows us that the gulf between the genders is massive, and that we should all be the happier for it? It's what makes the world go round.

I'm reminded of a current issue in the British media about demonstrations outside a school where kids around five years of age are being taught about LGBT (?) issues. Are they going nuts? Kids of that age should be being taught something relevant to their capabilities, not a pack of doctrinarian nonsense that goes way over their level and, possibly, creates premature interest in sex before they have the slightest idea what it is. Currently, a socialist MP is being rebuked by his party for standing, correctly in my view, on the side of the protestors who don't want that stuff filling their kids' minds. That the protestors visible on tv appeared to be mostly Moslem doesn't help the public image, but I believe them to be right on this issue. And I'm no socialst! But hey, neither am I a Tory any longer. They both make me sick at their hypocrisy.

Personally, I believe that school is never the place for sex lessons; nobody ever gave me such lessons, but I always seemed to know what I needed to know at the time I needed that knowledge. Which seemed to be the norm with everyone else I knew. Neither did I meet any girl who didn't know how to get pregnant. Furthermore, what a helluva position in which to put a teacher in today's society, where classroom control hangs by a thread. Anyway, I heard one spokesperson on behalf of the "system" say that they didn't discuss sex, per se, in which case, what the hell could they possibly discuss with those babies that's relevant? Tell them that two dads or two mums is the way to go? Really? What a dangerous incentive to play games they should not even think about. If they think about it as adults, that's a whole other deal, and the hell with it, their problem, not a schoolteacher's.

Political correctness: the wilful messing with, and attempted engineering of life as it has worked perfectly well for centuries.

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2019, 04:49:54 pm »


I'm reminded of a current issue in the British media about demonstrations outside a school where kids around five years of age are being taught about LGBT (?) issues. Are they going nuts? Kids of that age should be being taught something relevant to their capabilities, not a pack of doctrinarian nonsense that goes way over their level and, possibly, creates premature interest in sex before they have the slightest idea what it is.

If you actually look into it, they aren't being taught about "LGBT issues' at all. But perhaps they should be in the light of the vicious attack on a couple on a London bus by a group of teenagers.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2019, 05:14:31 pm »

If you actually look into it, they aren't being taught about "LGBT issues' at all. But perhaps they should be in the light of the vicious attack on a couple on a London bus by a group of teenagers.


Saw that about the attacked lesbian couple; quite how teaching (or not) babes about sex would have prevented it is hard to fathom. Everybody knows about those things, but it does not imply that knowing means agreeing with, and violent people need no excuse to be violent, just opportunity. At any age, I would have felt embarrassed, looked away or consulted my watch. I am not one of the violent, however much it makes me unhappy to see things like that in public. I am just as unhappy seeing heteros all over one another in public; don't even like to see it on-screen. There's no need in telling a story; literal is not required, one need simply suggest. Anything more is just to sell. In life, why not wait to do what you have to do in that respect in private?

Regarding the school: the LGBT issue is what Sky News declared it to be about. I am not about to make a trip to investigate for myself, so if Sky is lying, what's the truth, and how do you know?

Rob

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5080
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2019, 08:36:47 pm »

Nope.
Vietnam, for the US,  started with our "helping" the French. That goes back to Eisenhower/Nixon at least. Kennedy was persuaded to increase our "advising" , and then Johnson...well,,, finally down to Nixon to bail out.

Okay, finally looked it up. 

In the first few months of the JFK administration he botched the CIA sponsored invasion of Cuba (previously mentioned), he was out maneuvered by Khrushchev in Vienna, the Berlin wall was built and JFK was not able to do anything about it, and he did nothing to prevent the communists from taking over Laos.  For all of these, he was being in heavily criticized as being immature and incapable of doing anything about the world wide communist threat (which was taken very seriously during the cold war) even though he campaigned heavily on being able to do so. 

His exact quote before sending troops to Vietnam, "there are just so many concessions we can make in one year and survive politically."  I was wrong about who he said this to, not his whole cabinet but an aid.  All of the failures listed above made JFK felt he had to act and increase our presence in Vietnam in order to be electable for a 2nd term. 

Also, publicly JFK was only increasing our advising, but secretly JFK was sending special forces and denying it to the press.  By his assassination, JFK had sent over 11,000 special forces into Vietnam that were fighting with the ARVN, not just advising.   

JFK was also the one who authorized the use of napalm and defoliants (agent orange). 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 10:47:01 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2019, 01:38:03 am »


Saw that about the attacked lesbian couple; quite how teaching (or not) babes about sex would have prevented it is hard to fathom.
If people knew from an early age that different sexualities (is that a word?) are no big deal, then there would be no reason to pick on these two.
Quote
Everybody knows about those things, but it does not imply that knowing means agreeing with, At any age, I would have felt embarrassed, looked away
Looked away from what, exactly?
Quote
however much it makes me unhappy to see things like that in public
Things like what?
Quote
Regarding the school: the LGBT issue is what Sky News declared it to be about. I am not about to make a trip to investigate for myself, so if Sky is lying, what's the truth, and how do you know?
The school was basically saying, families are generally like this, but other types exist, for more information ask your parents. Some local activists stirred up trouble, handed out material they claimed falsely was a copy of the school books. Some of the activists are Muslims. Some of the parents supporting the school are Muslims.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2019, 01:41:27 am »

We never went into North Vietnam with troops. 

What a shame. After all, going into Iraq with troops was such a resounding success.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2019, 04:40:09 am »

1. If people knew from an early age that different sexualities (is that a word?) are no big deal, then there would be no reason to pick on these two.

2. Looked away from what, exactly?

3. Things like what?

4. The school was basically saying, families are generally like this, but other types exist, for more information ask your parents. Some local activists stirred up trouble, handed out material they claimed falsely was a copy of the school books. Some of the activists are Muslims. Some of the parents supporting the school are Muslims.


1.  I do not agree with your supposition and conclusion.

2. and 3. are part of the same thing: lesbians making out in public: "Everybody knows about those things, but it does not imply that knowing means agreeing with, and violent people need no excuse to be violent, just opportunity."

I extended it: "I am just as unhappy seeing heteros all over one another in public... In life, why not wait to do what you have to do in that respect in private?"

4.  Not the way I heard it; anyway, how does asking parents help in the supposedly ideal, morals-free, brave new world of anything goes that some quarters are trying so hard to promote? Those protestors are parents; will you disenfranchise them from their opinion because it disagrees with yours - or at least the one you defend? They hate what's going down and I agree with them. Does it make them mistaken and wrong if they don't go along with the societal decay that is creeping into everything wearing, the while, the mask of political correctness and freedom? Tails shoud not wag dogs.

Rob

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2019, 05:07:29 am »


1.  I do not agree with your supposition and conclusion.

2. and 3. are part of the same thing: lesbians making out in public: "Everybody knows about those things, but it does not imply that knowing means agreeing with, and violent people need no excuse to be violent, just opportunity."

I extended it: "I am just as unhappy seeing heteros all over one another in public... In life, why not wait to do what you have to do in that respect in private?"

4.  Not the way I heard it; anyway, how does asking parents help in the supposedly ideal, morals-free, brave new world of anything goes that some quarters are trying so hard to promote? Those protestors are parents; will you disenfranchise them from their opinion because it disagrees with yours - or at least the one you defend? They hate what's going down and I agree with them. Does it make them mistaken and wrong if they don't go along with the societal decay that is creeping into everything wearing, the while, the mask of political correctness and freedom? Tails shoud not wag dogs.

Rob

2. No lesbians were "making out" in public.

4. The protesters are largely NOT parents. They are people stirred up by false reports of what is happening in the school.  I thought (hoped?) that we had got beyond the idea that homosexuality represents "moral decay" - you seem to be endorsing Anne Widdecombe's view that science will find a "cure" for being gay.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2019, 06:15:47 am »

2. No lesbians were "making out" in public.

4. The protesters are largely NOT parents. They are people stirred up by false reports of what is happening in the school.  I thought (hoped?) that we had got beyond the idea that homosexuality represents "moral decay" - you seem to be endorsing Anne Widdecombe's view that science will find a "cure" for being gay.


2. Apparently, they were kissing; sitting quietly minding their own business would not have attracted interest and provoked the attack.

4. I suggest no "cure" for it. I see it as a state of mind and preference, in exactly the same way as serial rapists, paedophiles, even those attracted to bestiality feel their urges. All, as with the natural male/female human condition are sex-based urges. Last time I noticed there were but two types of genetalia which I believe tells us something about the intended natural order. Departure from that, I can see as nothing else but, regardless of fashion and political correctness cant. If you want to make one abnormal category of sex drive okay, then why not the rest of them on that list? Are there then, or are there not degrees of sexual divergence one must accept and turn into social norms?

All that personal opinion aside, I refer you back to my post where I wrote: "In life, why not wait to do what you have to do in that respect in private?" which referred to all male/female, male/male, female/female combinations of sexual activity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iEFfA4TmI

A better way to do what you wanna do.

;-)

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1219
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2019, 07:22:00 am »


If you want to make one abnormal category of sex drive okay, then why not the rest of them on that list?

Because an animal, a child or a rape victim can not give their consent.

Quote
Are there then, or are there not degrees of sexual divergence one must accept and turn into social norms?

Consenting adults should be free to do what they like with each others' bodies.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2019, 07:31:52 am »

Because an animal, a child or a rape victim can not give their consent.

Consenting adults should be free to do what they like with each others' bodies.


Consenting adults usually do, including, at times, a little touch of cannibalism. Hence my appeal to reason within the music: do it in the kitchen do it in the hall, but please do it behind closed doors.

:-)

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2019, 07:32:18 am »

What a shame. After all, going into Iraq with troops was such a resounding success.

I said getting involved in Vietnam was a mistake.  Or should I say President Johnson used a lie to escalate the war, (The Tonkin Bay incident)However, once you commit to war, you fight to win.  You don;t fight with one hand tied behind your back.  We stupidly limited offensive operations.  Instead of allowing his commanders to decide how to fight a war, President Johnson refused to let them bomb in various areas, selected the targets, etc.  It would be like in WWII, after all the Allied bombing of Germany, we never attacked by land.  What's the point?

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Counting down...
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2019, 07:37:05 am »

I said getting involved in Vietnam was a mistake.  Or should I say President Johnson used a lie to escalate the war, (The Tonkin Bay incident)However, once you commit to war, you fight to win.  You don;t fight with one hand tied behind your back.  We stupidly limited offensive operations.  Instead of allowing his commanders to decide how to fight a war, President Johnson refused to let them bomb in various areas, selected the targets, etc.  It would be like in WWII, after all the Allied bombing of Germany, we never attacked by land.  What's the point?


It goes further: as with recent Middle East interventions, how do you exit without leaving a greater mess than the one you created by being there? You can't occupy lands for ever, unless they are on your borders and you just annex 'em.

Rob
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Up