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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 222270 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1820 on: August 23, 2019, 06:46:14 pm »

Seriously???  I know it's sometime hard to separate fact from fiction but here is a President whose documented false statements have set a record for the office.  I don't think it's biased reporting when fact checkers can fully document this stuff.  of course he did have the largest inaugural crowd in history.
The mainstream press accused him and pushed the theme of treason with the Russians to destroy his presidency.  This was media conspiring in an attempted  palace coup. Everything else pales by comparison. 

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1821 on: August 23, 2019, 07:01:33 pm »

Signed a tax bill that has blown a hole in the budge.  Started a trade war with China that is having adverse impact on US and world economy.  Weakened all kinds of environmental regulations.  Said that the coal industry is poised for a great comeback.  Had ICE put kids in cages and separated them from their parents.  Refused to disclose his tax returns after saying he would.  etc. etc. etc.

As Kurt Vonnegut so ably wrote, "...so it goes..."
My question was: "How has his actions been more dangerous or had greater repercussions." than the other presidents in recent past history.  None of the things you mention are major actions on his part that were so terrible or so great.  Weakend environmental regulations which he said and was elected on?  Didn't show his tax returns?  That's dangerous and has great repercussions?  Are you serious?   Blew the budget? (most presidents do) Said (said?) the coal industry is coming back? Challenged China with trade; heck Reagan challenged the Soviet Union with a military buildup that destroyed them luckily not causing WWIII.  What about Kennedy's stupid Bay of Pigs that also almost caused WWIII?  Johnson started a phony war (Gulf of Tonkin) as did Bush with WMD in Iraq.  Trump helped destroy ISIS's caliphate territory and stopped North Korea from testing nukes and ICBM's.  Not sure what's dangerous about that.

None of these things have been as dangerous as what previous president have done.  Some have important repercussions, but none are a big deal by past president's actions.  The fact is you and the major press has spun the news to make Trump into some evil monster, including collusion with the Russians.  It's all politics and frankly phoney. 

RSL

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1822 on: August 23, 2019, 07:44:00 pm »

You thought the network fronted by Walter Cronkite, literally voted "the most trusted man in America" at the time and a critic of Democratic president Lyndon B Johnson's Vietnam policy, were a bunch of commies???

I thought Cronkite was a slippery liberal, James, who threw away our success in Vietnam after the failed Tet offensive. I still think that. There's no way I can forgive the guy.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1823 on: August 23, 2019, 08:05:42 pm »

Trump doubles down with tariffs after China raises theirs:

"Trump Says He Will Raise Existing Tariffs on Chinese Goods to 30%"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/business/china-tariffs-trump.html


Tells American businesses to stop doing business in China.
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/trump-china-us-companies/2019/08/23/id/929767/


Who will blink first?    I think Trump is going to use this as the premier issue during next year's presidential election.  The Democrats are stuck because they favor going against the Chinese because of the theft of American intellectual property over the decades.  Even Democrats think China is a thief stealing other countries property as well.  If the Dems oppose Trump on this issue, most Americans will be against them.  If they support Trump, he'll look like a battling general that should be re-elected during an economic war.  If the economy goes into recession, something that might happen anyway, he can blame the "war" with China asking for another 4 years to "win it".  All other issues, emoluments, obstructions, tax returns, North Korea, climate, etc will pale to insignificance as Americans tighten their belts once again, this time in an economic war.

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1824 on: August 23, 2019, 08:19:59 pm »

Trump doubles down with tariffs after China raises theirs:

"Trump Says He Will Raise Existing Tariffs on Chinese Goods to 30%"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/business/china-tariffs-trump.html


Tells American businesses to stop doing business in China.
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/trump-china-us-companies/2019/08/23/id/929767/


Who will blink first?    I think Trump is going to use this as the premier issue during next year's presidential election.  The Democrats are stuck because they favor going against the Chinese because of the theft of American intellectual property over the decades.  Even Democrats think China is a thief stealing other countries property as well.  If the Dems oppose Trump on this issue, most Americans will be against them.  If they support Trump, he'll look like a battling general that should be re-elected during an economic war.  If the economy goes into recession, something that might happen anyway, he can blame the "war" with China asking for another 4 years to "win it".  All other issues, emoluments, obstructions, tax returns, North Korea, climate, etc will pale to insignificance as Americans tighten their belts once again, this time in an economic war.

I can’t believe that anyone is still pushing the absurd notion that a Trump is some kind of Machiavellian genius thinking steps ahead.  Hell, half the time the man doesn’t even work a day ahead. :/
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JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1825 on: August 23, 2019, 08:26:48 pm »

I can’t believe that anyone is still pushing the absurd notion that a Trump is some kind of Machiavellian genius thinking steps ahead.  Hell, half the time the man doesn’t even work a day ahead. :/

Then you are not really paying attention. 

I am not going to say all of his actions are well thought out, but lets be honest with ourselves.  On three occasions in the last couple of months, he got the Dems to completely reverse course and support the Squad.  Remember, Pelosi on a couple of occasions, supported by polling that showed the majority of democratic voters disliked those members, was going to denounce their ideas and then Trump tweeted, and caused nearly the entire democratic party to whole heartedly support those members and associate themselves with their unpopular ideas. 

CNN even ran an article in which a democratic moderate house member stated that Trump won and what he did was "politically brilliant." 

To ignore this is foolhardy, and I bet most of the Dems are ignoring this, which only helps the Republicans. 

Insofar as the China tariffs, talk is cheap.  Feckless Obama, and Feckless Bush, and Feckless Clinton taught us time and time again that China is not going to respond to talk and us waving our finger.  The majority, on both sides, agree China is a nefarious actor not playing by the rules, manipulating its currency, stealing IP, etc.  They has shown that don't care what we say, and now is the perfect time for action.  China's economy is slowing and may be in recession, Hong Kong is finally waking up, along with the rest of the world.  There is not a better time then now to take action and reel them in so they play fairly on the world stage. 

And lets look at the grander picture here.  China is a dictatorship thats hold very little of the philosophies of the West.  They do not support freedom of speech or the press or religion or assembly or open fair elections.  Art is controlled, along with the Internet and the news and publications.  They do not support the freedom to protect yourself (2nd amendment), or self governance; they have kangaroo courts.  They oppress the Tibetans (they kidnapped the Dalia Panchen and replaced him with their own choice so to further control Tibet), and the northern muslims, and others.  Is this really the type of government you want to spread? 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 08:42:38 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1826 on: August 23, 2019, 08:45:58 pm »

I can’t believe that anyone is still pushing the absurd notion that a Trump is some kind of Machiavellian genius thinking steps ahead.  Hell, half the time the man doesn’t even work a day ahead. :/
Here's a guy without any political experience who beat all the Republicans and took on the Democrat establishments and won the presidency single handingly.  A guy who has used pressure points in business to get his way out-flanking everyone.     

Thanks, I think, for calling me a Machiavellian genius?  If I thought of it, so can he.

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1827 on: August 23, 2019, 08:52:56 pm »

Then you are not really paying attention. 

I am not going to say all of his actions are well thought out, but lets be honest with ourselves.  On three occasions in the last couple of months, he got the Dems to completely reverse course and support the Squad.  Remember, Pelosi on a couple of occasions, supported by polling that showed the majority of democratic voters disliked those members, was going to denounce their ideas and then Trump tweeted, and caused nearly the entire democratic party to whole heartedly support those members and associate themselves with their unpopular ideas. 

CNN even ran an article in which a democratic moderate house member stated that Trump won and what he did was "politically brilliant."

LOL. Are we really having this discussion?  Are we really in a world where attacking women with racist language, prompting people to defend them is considered brilliant?  Are we really in a world where defending a native-born person of color from a racist attack is supposed to tarnish you with assumed alignment with their politics? 

It's not brilliant, it's pathetic.  It's basic, remedial, lizard brain stuff.   It doesn't take forethought, it takes only an utter lack of shame and self-reflection, and it certainly doesn't speak to strategy. It's pure id.   

 
Insofar as the China tariffs, talk is cheap.  Feckless Obama, and Feckless Bush, and Feckless Clinton taught us time and time again that China is not going to respond to talk and us waving our finger.  The majority, on both sides, agree China is a nefarious actor not playing by the rules, manipulating its currency, stealing IP, etc.  They has shown that don't care what we say, and now is the perfect time for action.  China's economy is slowing and may be in recession, Hong Kong is finally waking up, along with the rest of the world.  There is not a better time then now to take action and reel them in so they play fairly on the world stage.

Obama's administration actually made some inroads to curbing IP theft, which Trump's bellicose posturing has pretty much undone, but sure - let's keep pretending that whacking someone over the head with a stick, even though it rebounds and hits your own head on each backswing, is "brilliant."

And lets look at the grander picture here.  China is a dictatorship thats hold very little of the philosophies of the West.  They do not support freedom of speech or the press or religion or assembly or open fair elections.  Art is controlled, along with the Internet and the news and publications.  They do not support the freedom to protect yourself (2nd amendment), or self governance.  They oppress the Tibetans (they kidnapped the Dalia Panchen and replaced him with their own choice so to further control Tibet), and the northern muslims, and others.  Is this really the type of government you want to spread?

Nope - we agree completely.  I've always been a fan of allowing western culture to do it's insidious work and rot oppressive regimes from the inside.  People tend to love freedom, the right to express themselves, Coca Cola and blue jeans.  But funny how when we start making their lives miserable they band together against us anyway, isn't it? 
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1828 on: August 23, 2019, 08:54:26 pm »

Then you are not really paying attention. 

I am not going to say all of his actions are well thought out, but lets be honest with ourselves.  On three occasions in the last couple of months, he got the Dems to completely reverse course and support the Squad.  Remember, Pelosi on a couple of occasions, supported by polling that showed the majority of democratic voters disliked those members, was going to denounce their ideas and then Trump tweeted, and caused nearly the entire democratic party to whole heartedly support those members and associate themselves with their unpopular ideas. 

CNN even ran an article in which a democratic moderate house member stated that Trump won and what he did was "politically brilliant." 

To ignore this is foolhardy, and I bet most of the Dems are ignoring this, which only helps the Republicans. 

Insofar as the China tariffs, talk is cheap.  Feckless Obama, and Feckless Bush, and Feckless Clinton taught us time and time again that China is not going to respond to talk and us waving our finger.  The majority, on both sides, agree China is a nefarious actor not playing by the rules, manipulating its currency, stealing IP, etc.  They has shown that don't care what we say, and now is the perfect time for action.  China's economy is slowing and may be in recession, Hong Kong is finally waking up, along with the rest of the world.  There is not a better time then now to take action and reel them in so they play fairly on the world stage. 

And lets look at the grander picture here.  China is a dictatorship thats hold very little of the philosophies of the West.  They do not support freedom of speech or the press or religion or assembly or open fair elections.  Art is controlled, along with the Internet and the news and publications.  They do not support the freedom to protect yourself (2nd amendment), or self governance; they have kangaroo courts.  They oppress the Tibetans (they kidnapped the Dalia Panchen and replaced him with their own choice so to further control Tibet), and the northern muslims, and others.  Is this really the type of government you want to spread? 
Other countries should support Trump.  If he wins over China, all businesses everywhere will benefit.  The Chinese are stealing IP from everyone and forcing technology transfers for all companies doing business there regardless of what country they come from.  Of course, it maybe that other countries are afraid Trump will come after them next for unfair trade practices they have enacted.

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1829 on: August 23, 2019, 08:58:07 pm »

Here's a guy without any political experience who beat all the Republicans and took on the Democrat establishments and won the presidency single handingly.  A guy who has used pressure points in business to get his way out-flanking everyone.     

Thanks, I think, for calling me a Machiavellian genius?  If I thought of it, so can he.

Nah - you're not a Machiavellian genius - from what I've seen you're too kind to be that, and you're better for it.  I mean, you may be a genius, but you don't strike me as cruel and calculating in your own self interest :)

You're just not going convince me - ever - that exploiting the worst, most basic instincts in your base is "genius."  Or that doubling down on it doesn't make you a garbage pile of a human being.  Seeing everything as a transactional, zero-sum competition doesn't make you smart - it makes you simple, even if you benefit from the outcome of that calculation. 

 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:19:18 pm by James Clark »
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1830 on: August 23, 2019, 09:01:45 pm »

LOL. Are we really having this discussion?  Are we really in a world where attacking women with racist language, prompting people to defend them is considered brilliant?  Are we really in a world where defending a native-born person of color from a racist attack is supposed to tarnish you with assumed alignment with their politics? 

It's not brilliant, it's pathetic.  It's basic, remedial, lizard brain stuff.   It doesn't take forethought, it takes only an utter lack of shame and self-reflection, and it certainly doesn't speak to strategy. It's pure id.   

 
Obama's administration actually made some inroads to curbing IP theft, which Trump's bellicose posturing has pretty much undone, but sure - let's keep pretending that whacking someone over the head with a stick, even though it rebounds and hits your own head on each backswing, is "brilliant."

Nope - we agree completely.  I've always been a fan of allowing western culture to do it's insidious work and rot oppressive regimes from the inside.  People tend to love freedom, the right to express themselves, Coca Cola and blue jeans.  But funny how when we start making their lives miserable they band together against us anyway, isn't it? 

There you go pulling the race card.  It wasn't a racist attack.  It wasn't misogynist.  He was reminding the public of their anti-Semitism and anti-Israel positions.  That's politics.  All fair game. 

Obama made no in-roads.  They've continued to steal IP from us without abatement.

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1831 on: August 23, 2019, 09:08:07 pm »

There you go pulling the race card.  It wasn't a racist attack.  It wasn't misogynist.  He was reminding the public of their anti-Semitism and anti-Israel positions.  That's politics.  All fair game.

Alan, it *was* a racist attack. It was.  I agree 100%, by the way, that some of us lefties are way to eager to start assigning racial motives where there are none, but this instance was.  Telling brown people who were born in the USA to "go back where they came from" is racist.  Period.  And it's not just lefties that think so.  Donald Trump, the man, may not be racist.  But he continually stokes fear of extranational "others" (who generally happen to be brown) to gin up his base.  It's undeniable, and problematic.

Obama made no in-roads.  They've continued to steal IP from us without abatement.

You're unequivocally wrong here.  From a Columbia Law Review article...

Quote
The United States also attempted to combat trade secret theft in ways beyond prosecutions.  In 2016, Congress passed the Defend Trade Secrets Act, which created a civil remedy to parallel the EEA’s criminal penalties.  Moreover, the Obama administration reached a cybersecurity agreement with the Chinese government in 2015 that included a bilateral promise to stop the theft of intellectual property from one another.  This diplomatic solution marked a promising step forward, although President Obama warned that the agreement’s words must be “followed by actions.”  Initially, China appeared to live up to its promise, as in the months after the agreement, Chinese commercial hacks of American companies dropped by roughly 90%.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1832 on: August 23, 2019, 09:09:56 pm »

Nah - your not a Machiavellian genius - from what I've seen you're too kind to be that, and you're better for it.  I mean, you may be a genius, but you don't strike me as cruel and calculating in your own self interest :)

You're just not going convince me - ever - that exploiting the worst, most basic instincts in your base is "genius."  Or that doubling down on it doesn't make you a garbage pile of a human being.  Seeing everything as a transactional, zero-sum competition doesn't make you smart - it makes you simple, even if you benefit from the outcome of that calculation. 

 
Ah shucks.  I always wanted to be Machiavelli. :)


The fact is Trump always had China, NAFTA, TPP, etc in his crosshairs, long before he became president.  He didn't just think this up today.  Trying to protect American interests is the main job, maybe the only job, an America president is supposed to be doing.  That's not being cruel.  While I don;t agree with many things Obama did, I always give him credit for doing what he felt was in the best interests of America, as best he could.  I believe that to be the same with Trump and other presidents as well.  Sometimes they screw up, maybe often, and get us involved in foreign adventures we'd better off staying out of.  But that doesn't make them evil. 

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1833 on: August 23, 2019, 09:17:13 pm »

Ah shucks.  I always wanted to be Machiavelli. :)


The fact is Trump always had China, NAFTA, TPP, etc in his crosshairs, long before he became president.  He didn't just think this up today.  Trying to protect American interests is the main job, maybe the only job, an America president is supposed to be doing.  That's not being cruel.  While I don;t agree with many things Obama did, I always give him credit for doing what he felt was in the best interests of America, as best he could.  I believe that to be the same with Trump and other presidents as well.  Sometimes they screw up, maybe often, and get us involved in foreign adventures we'd better off staying out of.  But that doesn't make them evil.

Sure, I can get on board with that.  I'm not one of the people that thinks Trump gears each policy announcement toward what benefits his personal bottom line - that's too cynical even for me ;)

But I do think that the has the impression that what's good for him is what's good for America, and I think he is grossly mistaken in thinking that his opinions, wants, and needs are reflective of all of us.  I also think that his vision as the "CEO" of the nation is flawed.  I believe his thinking is, not exactly short term, but to predicated on financial ROI and economic "fairness" in far too simple a sense.  He gets caught up on things like 2% NATO funding without realizing the secondary benefits of a stable Europe that may work out to far more commerce that the transactional nature of that 2% number.

I think he lacks the ability to think in terms beyond deals and exchange of material, and is unwilling to consider that the business of running a nation and, frankly, by virtue of his position, the world, is different from running a family business where all that matters is winning for "his" family. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1834 on: August 23, 2019, 09:20:54 pm »

LOL. Are we really having this discussion?  Are we really in a world where attacking women with racist language, prompting people to defend them is considered brilliant?  Are we really in a world where defending a native-born person of color from a racist attack is supposed to tarnish you with assumed alignment with their politics? 

It's not brilliant, it's pathetic.  It's basic, remedial, lizard brain stuff.   It doesn't take forethought, it takes only an utter lack of shame and self-reflection, and it certainly doesn't speak to strategy. It's pure id.   

 
Obama's administration actually made some inroads to curbing IP theft, which Trump's bellicose posturing has pretty much undone, but sure - let's keep pretending that whacking someone over the head with a stick, even though it rebounds and hits your own head on each backswing, is "brilliant."

Nope - we agree completely.  I've always been a fan of allowing western culture to do it's insidious work and rot oppressive regimes from the inside.  People tend to love freedom, the right to express themselves, Coca Cola and blue jeans.  But funny how when we start making their lives miserable they band together against us anyway, isn't it?

Attacking some one who is a women is not sexist, nor is it racist to attack someone who is a different race.  Please state the exact tweets you considered to be sexist and racist. 

There are some pretty clear policy differences that the Squad has compared to the rest of the country, including Dems.  As a few Dems said, albeit anonymously, they were all brilliant moves by Trump.  Pelosi has been trying for months to separate the Dems from the Squad, but has not been able to do so due to Trump.  You may not agree with how he did it, but it did work. 

As was said in the past many times before, politics is a blood sport. 

On top of that, what has the house down to get any policies through? 

They refuse to work with Trump on everything, trying not to give him a win.  They created the border mess, by first ignoring it, then claiming it was made up, then recognizing it but refused to give any money to fix it until the 11th hour.  And then they were capitulated to go with what ever the Senate passed due to their inaction, a total loss due solely to their hatred for Trump. 

Then you have the collusion narrative, that they pushed down our throats only for it to be a total hoax.  Nadler and Schiff wasted two whole years of governing where they could actually had down something for the American people. 

It's been a loose loose for all of the moderate Dems in the House, and they have nothing to sell their constituents to get reelected.  I am amazed they have not yet retaliated against the leadership and started to denounce this stuff on their own.  They will probably wait until after the primaries, but it will be too little too late. 

Insofar as Obama helping to decrease IP threat, please show me those news articles.  I remember nothing of that happening, but could have certainly overlooked it.

For your last point, I am not so sure I understand this.  Are you saying the power hungry countries will just whither and die if only we accept them into the fold?  Kind of like Obama tried to do with Russia 2008 through 2012?  Remember, the 1980s are calling and they want their foreign policy back. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:28:45 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1835 on: August 23, 2019, 09:26:41 pm »

Alan, it *was* a racist attack. It was.  I agree 100%, by the way, that some of us lefties are way to eager to start assigning racial motives where there are none, but this instance was.  Telling brown people who were born in the USA to "go back where they came from" is racist.  Period.  And it's not just lefties that think so.  Donald Trump, the man, may not be racist.  But he continually stokes fear of extranational "others" (who generally happen to be brown) to gin up his base.  It's undeniable, and problematic.

You're unequivocally wrong here.  From a Columbia Law Review article...


"Go back from where you came from" isn't a racist attack but a political attack on people who others feel are not patriotic enough.  The statement could have just as easily been pointed at white men who originally were foreigners who made the statement the females did.  Frankly, I don;t think he should have used it because they're congresswomen and American citizens.  But I didn't take it as a racist statement that the left always seem to fall back on to smear political opponents.

Regardless of what the Columbia Law Review said, China has gone back to their old ways and continue to steal from us.  If they've reduced the theft, it;s only because there's not much left to steal.  They've gotten most of it already.  The fact is the CHinese Communists never had economic or scientific prowess because of the way the Reds ran the country.  So they became thieves and stole their way to success using cheap, almost slave labor to advance their economy.  They stole military secrets from everyone that now threatens everyone, especially in the Far East.  The stole those islands in the South China Sea and militarized them against their neighbors.  They're not a good actor in the world and would have you and me working for them if they get a chance.   Unfortunately, because of America's singular economic and military power, we are again "charged" with  keeping the peace.  I wish we could avoid it.  But I don't know how.   

Trump is going it alone because he always did things alone.  WHen you join with others, it slows down your actions and decisions and waters down the effort.  You have to get everyone else to agree to every move you want to make. 

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1836 on: August 23, 2019, 09:45:53 pm »


From a Columbia Law Review article...

What does this prove?  So we brought criminal cases against a foreign country and companies here?  China is a country that is known for vehemently defending it's companies and deflecting any punishments from them, so what does it matter. 

As the UN has shown countless times in the past, international courts really do nothing. 

From your article, "the Obama administration reached a cybersecurity agreement with the Chinese government in 2015 that included a bilateral promise to stop the theft of intellectual property from one another.  This diplomatic solution marked a promising step forward, although President Obama warned that the agreement’s words must be “followed by actions.”  Initially, China appeared to live up to its promise, as in the months after the agreement, Chinese commercial hacks of American companies dropped by roughly 90%.

Since 2016, however, Chinese trade secret theft has once again increased at an alarming pace." 

So Obama's great success here was to get the Chinese to stop hacking for about a year, only for them to start it up again, gang buster style, before he even left office.  Not a very great record, and clearly shows that China could care less what we do in our courts that have no jurisdiction in Asia.  They merely gave it a rest just long enough for it to blow over and Obama to become a lame duck president. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:51:36 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1837 on: August 23, 2019, 09:46:59 pm »

Sure, I can get on board with that.  I'm not one of the people that thinks Trump gears each policy announcement toward what benefits his personal bottom line - that's too cynical even for me ;)

But I do think that the has the impression that what's good for him is what's good for America, and I think he is grossly mistaken in thinking that his opinions, wants, and needs are reflective of all of us.  I also think that his vision as the "CEO" of the nation is flawed.  I believe his thinking is, not exactly short term, but to predicated on financial ROI and economic "fairness" in far too simple a sense.  He gets caught up on things like 2% NATO funding without realizing the secondary benefits of a stable Europe that may work out to far more commerce that the transactional nature of that 2% number.

I think he lacks the ability to think in terms beyond deals and exchange of material, and is unwilling to consider that the business of running a nation and, frankly, by virtue of his position, the world, is different from running a family business where all that matters is winning for "his" family. 


I agree that presidents deal with their own ego, pride and need for personal success and power.  Why else would anyone want to be president?  Part of their plans is re-election.  So they connive and plot often at the detriment of the country.  Obama pulled out of Iraq before the 2012 election because he said he would early in his first term.  He needed to show he kept his word to win re-election by "ending the war".  Everyone told him he'll only open Iraq up to another round of conflagration due to the vacuum created by our military leaving.  He ignored that advice and we got ISIS.

Regarding the NATO 2%, he was just stronger at pushing it.  Previous presidents complained, including Obama and Bush.  The difference is Trump being a power player, really knows how to use power to his advantage.  He did that in business riding over competitors and others.  So he's good at it as president.  Sometimes, maybe often, it looks mean.  Maybe it is.  But you have to be tough if you're president.  Guys like Xi and Kim will eat you for lunch if you're not.  Fact is, Americans want a tough president.   Weaklings need not apply. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1838 on: August 23, 2019, 10:24:08 pm »

Attacking some one who is a women is not sexist, nor is it racist to attack someone who is a different race....

+1

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #1839 on: August 23, 2019, 10:35:31 pm »

+1

We all agree, and I believe I’ve been explicitly clear on this point.

I’m on a tablet now, gentlemen, so this will have to resume tomorrow.  I bid you good evening... :)
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