The American Constitution

[Alan Klein]

Interesting editorial in the Wall Street Journal this morning which pointed out that with the increase in population we now have a million people with serious mental illness drifting around the country; people who, sixty years ago, would have been confined to mental institutions.

Of course, that simply couldn't help to explain the murders that are taking place. After all, as the left sixty years ago bled publicly: it's unfair to keep these poor people cooped up. I remember the whole thing. I even had a schizophrenic cousin who was removed from care and promptly disappeared.

Golly. Maybe guns aren't really the problem. If they are, how come, when I was a kid, we all had guns but there almost never was a shooting except by the Mafia?

That's what I remember as a kid too.   The first was the shoot up in the Texas tower at the university in 1966.  He didn't use an AR-15 although one of his guns was a single-shot carbine that looks like a hunting rifle.  He killed 17 people.  That was a milestone in mass murder.  The killer turned out to have a tumor in his brain.  I know people who have family members that roam around the streets who would have been hospitalized years ago.  They're now homeless or semi homeless.  The problem is many of them go off their meds which was the main reason those hospitals were shut down years ago.  To treat people with psychotropic drugs rather than keeping them locked up.  Unfortunately, there's no way to force them to stay on their meds. 

[LesPalenik]

Interesting editorial in the Wall Street Journal this morning which pointed out that with the increase in population we now have a million people with serious mental illness drifting around the country; people who, sixty years ago, would have been confined to mental institutions.

Of course, that simply couldn't help to explain the murders that are taking place. After all, as the left sixty years ago bled publicly: it's unfair to keep these poor people cooped up. I remember the whole thing. I even had a schizophrenic cousin who was removed from care and promptly disappeared.

Golly. Maybe guns aren't really the problem. If they are, how come, when I was a kid, we all had guns but there almost never was a shooting except by the Mafia?

Related to mental illness:
In my town, there is a little charity store which has been operating for 28 years. All profits go to Mental Health institute and they employ volunteers recovering from mental illness.
Suffice to say, very beneficial - financially and also to many people involved on temporary basis as employees. Also good for the general community. Now the store is closing its doors, and also closing the opportunity for many recovering mental patients to get back into productive life. Not sure what is the reason for closing, but weighing the benefit of continuing operation vs any costs to keep it in business, closing of the store seems a shortsighted and pour choice.

[Rob C]

45000 Americans are killed every year driving.  Funny thing though. No one wants to take away their cars. They're willing to put up with the carnage.  And get this.  About half of the auto deaths was caused by drinking.  Yet, amazingly, we reversed a constitutional amendment that had stopped the manufacturing of alcohol that could have saved thousands annually.  Silly us, we're now legalizing marijuana, state by state, that's going to add to the carnage on the road to the tune of hundreds of more deaths a year, a lot more than occur with mass shootings.  And there's no constitutional protection for any of these things like we have against eliminating guns. We could stop it and the Supreme Court would not interfere.   We're a strange people. 

Let's see if I get this: you claim the USA has no laws (with teeth) against driving whilst under the influence of alcohol or other drugs? Traffic deaths, unless due to such self-inflicted reasons as drugs, booze and suicide, are due to accident, which by definition can hardly be prevented unless you refuse to maintain your vehicle properly, in which case you are culpable. Unlike guns, whose only raison d'être is killing, cars are a means of transportation, nothing more or less. The logic you have attempted to apply with such a concatenation is unsustainable.

Gun deaths, however, may happen because of booze and other such influences, but accident is due to carelessness and that hardly causes the mass killings that bring guns into more visible disrepute. You don't set out armed with a shit-load of magazines (not of the reading kind) and guns, intent on public mass murder, by accident.

The booze industry brings in a lot of money: as ever, cherchez la femme, or in this case, the loot. Just like your guns, then.

Regarding legalisation of drugs - I agree with you: it beggers belief and makes one wonder how many politicians have a vested interest in not getting arrested for having their version of a good time and a runny nose.

Yes, you are a strange people indeed; nobody could sensibly argue with you on that one. Trouble is, you are not alone in your strangenesses. So far, I don't think you've done a Brexit! Well, only in minor ways like nuclear non-deals and Paris Accords on climate... thing is, as with Brexit, such little moments don't just affect yourselves.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Golly. Maybe guns aren't really the problem. If they are, how come, when I was a kid, we all had guns but there almost never was a shooting except by the Mafia?

No internet?

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Let's see if I get this: you claim the USA has no laws (with teeth) against driving whilst under the influence of alcohol or other drugs? Traffic deaths, unless due to such self-inflicted reasons as drugs, booze and suicide, are due to accident, which by definition can hardly be prevented unless you refuse to maintain your vehicle properly, in which case you are culpable. Unlike guns, whose only raison d'être is killing, cars are a means of transportation, nothing more or less. The logic you have attempted to apply with such a concatenation is unsustainable.

Gun deaths, however, may happen because of booze and other such influences, but accident is due to carelessness and that hardly causes the mass killings that bring guns into more visible disrepute. You don't set out armed with a shit-load of magazines (not of the reading kind) and guns, intent on public mass murder, by accident.

The booze industry brings in a lot of money: as ever, cherchez la femme, or in this case, the loot. Just like your guns, then.

Regarding legalisation of drugs - I agree with you: it beggers belief and makes one wonder how many politicians have a vested interest in not getting arrested for having their version of a good time and a runny nose.

Yes, you are a strange people indeed; nobody could sensibly argue with you on that one. Trouble is, you are not alone in your strangenesses. So far, I don't think you've done a Brexit! Well, only in minor ways like nuclear non-deals and Paris Accords on climate... thing is, as with Brexit, such little moments don't just affect yourselves.

Guns have many purposes just as cars do.  They protect people, families, homes and businesses.  They're used for hunting. They provide citizens with a way of defending the country against a tyrannical government.  Ask the people in Venezuela what I mean or those in Cuba.  What are the poor unarmed people in Hong Kong going to do when the Red Chinese enter their city with tanks like Tiananmen Square?

Guns like cars have many laws against improper use.  You can;t hunt without a license that usually require training.  You have to go through a background check when buying a new gun.  Any jerk can buy a car and speed on the highway.  You can't carry in many places.  In NYC such violation could get you in jail for one year.  Rob someone with a gun, (armed robbery as opposed to that without a gun), and you'll spend many more years in jail just for the armed part.  No one ever says American jail sentences are light when guns are involved. Meanwhile speeding through a red light will get you a monetary fine only  even though the act could have killed a couple of children walking across the street. 

My point is that people are willing to put up with mayhem, whether caused by cars or guns, because they want to continue to use them.  Guns apparently are even more important as the founders of America protected that right in our Constitution.  Frankly, I trust their rationale for granting people that right more than the frothy and faulty arguments against that right.

[Alan Klein]

No internet?

Cheers,
Bart

I believe that film and internet and other visual cues do play a part.  Since ISIS has lost its territories, there seems to be less people who will do mass murder in terrorist attacks.  There seem to be copycats who do things because others are doing them. It's a strange and crazy situation.  People on the edge seem to get pushed over it when they see others doing harmful acts.  One nut job seems to give another nut job the license to act out.  Media has started to not even mention the perpetrators name in the hopes that future potential killers won;t do anything since they won;lt get their name publicized.  Not sure that would work, but it's a start. 

[RSL]

No internet?

Cheers,
Bart

No doubt that's part of the problem, Bart. No TV either in the beginning. Getting rid of TV probably could save the Western World from ultimate destruction.

[Rob C]

Guns have many purposes just as cars do.  They protect people, families, homes and businesses.  They're used for hunting. They provide citizens with a way of defending the country against a tyrannical government.  Ask the people in Venezuela what I mean or those in Cuba.  What are the poor unarmed people in Hong Kong going to do when the Red Chinese enter their city with tanks like Tiananmen Square?

Guns like cars have many laws against improper use.  You can;t hunt without a license that usually require training.  You have to go through a background check when buying a new gun.  Any jerk can buy a car and speed on the highway.  You can't carry in many places.  In NYC such violation could get you in jail for one year.  Rob someone with a gun, (armed robbery as opposed to that without a gun), and you'll spend many more years in jail just for the armed part.  No one ever says American jail sentences are light when guns are involved. Meanwhile speeding through a red light will get you a monetary fine only  even though the act could have killed a couple of children walking across the street. 

My point is that people are willing to put up with mayhem, whether caused by cars or guns, because they want to continue to use them.  Guns apparently are even more important as the founders of America protected that right in our Constitution.  Frankly, I trust their rationale for granting people that right more than the frothy and faulty arguments against that right.

Alan, I could spend all my waking hours answering your points, but as you never reply to anything directly (assuming you absorb it in the first place), just like any old politician, and continue on your merry way stitching one non sequitur to the next, the task is futile. I leave you in your compartment with Alice. I'm not equipped for her world.

[faberryman]

I was responding to an opinion by a non-American that called Americans racist and unfree.  Those are fighting words and were over the top.

You are as thin-skinned as your idol. And lash out too, like Pavlov's dog. But what else can you expect? Rational discussion was never in the cards.

[Robert Roaldi]

For the lighter side of the news https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/456155-ohio-gop-lawmaker-blames-shootings-on-gay-marriage-video-games-open.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, I could spend all my waking hours answering your points, but as you never reply to anything directly (assuming you absorb it in the first place), just like any old politician, and continue on your merry way stitching one non sequitur to the next, the task is futile. I leave you in your compartment with Alice. I'm not equipped for her world.

Just another ad hominem attack.  You didn't address my points. 

[Alan Klein]

You are as thin-skinned as your idol. And lash out too, like Pavlov's dog. But what else can you expect? Rational discussion was never in the cards.

Just another ad hominem attack.  You didn't address my points. 

[Alan Klein]

For the lighter side of the news https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/456155-ohio-gop-lawmaker-blames-shootings-on-gay-marriage-video-games-open.

What's funny about the breakdown of the family?

[faberryman]

Just another ad hominem attack.  You didn't address my points.

I was taught not to try to have a rational discussion with an irrational person.

[Alan Klein]

I was taught not to try to have a rational discussion with an irrational person.

Another ad hominem attack.    You seem to be in a great mood today.

[faberryman]

Another ad hominem attack.  You seem to be in a great mood today.

Just placing your arguments in context.

[Alan Klein]

Just placing your arguments in context.

Do you really think I'm Pavlov's dog? ("ruff")  Or "thin-skinned"?  That I "lash out"?  That I'm "irrational"?  I haven't been called those many names since me and my wife had a big fight last month. 

[faberryman]

Do you really think I'm Pavlov's dog? ("ruff")  Or "thin-skinned"?  That I "lash out"?  That I'm "irrational"?  I haven't been called those many names since me and my wife had a big fight last month.

Yes, I really think you act like Pavlov's dog in response to certain statements. Yes, I really think you are thin-skinned. Yes, I really think you lash out. Yes, I really think you are irrational. The proof is in your posts.

[James Clark]

Y'all are gonna get our toys taken away again. 

[JoeKitchen]

Y'all are gonna get our toys taken away again. 

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