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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 83116 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #540 on: June 19, 2019, 04:23:32 am »

Oh, by the way, James, your presidential candidate, AOC, is so much more qualified and suited for the job, right? I mean, in your view, after Trump, even a retard like her canít be worse, right? 😉

P.S. political teasing aside, I hope we are still friends :)

Since when has AOC been a presidential candidate? More fake news?

Cheers,
Bart
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jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #541 on: June 19, 2019, 04:44:03 am »

Since when has AOC been a presidential candidate? More fake news?

Unfortunately :-(
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #542 on: June 19, 2019, 05:55:05 am »

This explains why we have a problem with what SOME say. Their "reasons" are exactly why people like Trump.

You bet. And would like him to do more of that,  without being sabotaged every step of the way.

Of course.

I think I posted before that we tend to give too much credit to presidents for the state of the economy. So you won't have me subscribed to the above. However, the above contains a fallacy that needs to be addressed: trajectories do not last forever. Given that the doomsday scenario predicted a market crash and deep recession in case he is elected, continuing the trajectory is a success.

A faction!? Just the majority of people in the majority of states.

Really? I though that the number of individual votes was agaist him, but the US sytem of grouping them together worked to his advantage.

Rob

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #543 on: June 19, 2019, 06:37:30 am »

Really? I though that the number of individual votes was agaist him, but the US sytem of grouping them together worked to his advantage.

Rob

Yes - that is what Slobo said. You can win 2 votes to 1 in 3 states, and lose a million to one in the 4th, and still win the election (numbers exaggerated, obvs, put the point is the same!!)
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #544 on: June 19, 2019, 07:04:14 am »


Not because of their economy but due to their military prowess through nuclear arms and other sophisticated weapons.  Also, their long border with China and large army.    Having Russian troops along that border with friendly relations with America will help hold China in check.  But first, we have to turn around our relations with them.  Because of the constant collusion charges against Trump all for political reasons, he has be unable to do that hurting American security interests.

You believe that Russia on your side? Is this anything other than wishful thinking?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #545 on: June 19, 2019, 07:22:12 am »

Unil Trump, most liberals hated the CIA and complained constantly about how evil they were getting us into dangerous situations like Cuba Bay of Pigs invasion that almost lead to WWIII, or the Shah of Iran fiasco leading to the Mullahs.  Now that Trump takes what they say and do with a grain of salt, these same liberals suddenly are heaping praise on the CIA almost making them infallible.  It's pathetic.

This is non-argument. It's entirely irrelevant what "liberals" thought (or think for that matter) of the CIA. I certainly don't speak for American "liberals". I can see however what they might have had against the incursions into other countries by the CIA in the past. This is not directly connected to the intelligence that they gathered (or gather now), which can still be useful information on which to base decisions.

So what you seem to be saying is that it's ok for Trump to take foreign policy advice from the crown prince's of religious dictatorships instead of his own employees because that pisses "liberals" off, and that makes you feel good.

You asked for my personal views at one point. I don't regard my views on these matters as even close to relevant, and they're certainly not important. This is mostly why I tend to provide links to material provided by very knowledgeable people and it confuses me why you don't want to be exposed to them. But my very personal view of this issue anyway, coming from my irrelevant gut feel, is that the crown prince's of Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. and Putin are wily international operators and Trump is a babe in the woods and they're playing him like a puppet.

What leader hires his family as his chief aides and consultants? What knowledge did any of them have of the world? What leader leaves large areas of his own important services without appointed bosses (Pentagon is the latest)? What leader goes through appointees as rapidly as he does? Who would invest in a company when the CEO generated more senior staff turnover than a pancake house?

Please don't reply to this with another "What about Obama, or what about Hilary or even more silly What about AOC?" I don't care about any of them.

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #546 on: June 19, 2019, 08:53:42 am »

You believe that Russia on your side? Is this anything other than wishful thinking?

It's 'naive' (to put it mildly) to think so.

BTW, they are competitors to the USA for delivering Natural Gas.
So Europe can now choose the cheaper or more reliable supplier (whichever is more relevant at a certain moment in time), depending on the European strategic goals. The USA has become an increasingly unreliable partner, since it started demonstrating that it will unilaterally pull out of trade agreements and other treaties.

But then, there's not much in the constitution about that.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #547 on: June 19, 2019, 08:57:17 am »

[...] the crown prince's of Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. and Putin are wily international operators and Trump is a babe in the woods and they're playing him like a puppet.

+2

Cheers,
Bart
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RSL

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #548 on: June 19, 2019, 09:06:17 am »

Yes, and Europe always has been so successful at international relations. especially with regard to Germany and Russia.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #549 on: June 19, 2019, 09:16:19 am »

It's 'naive' (to put it mildly) to think so.

BTW, they are competitors to the USA for delivering Natural Gas.
So Europe can now choose the cheaper or more reliable supplier (whichever is more relevant at a certain moment in time), depending on the European strategic goals. The USA has become an increasingly unreliable partner, since it started demonstrating that it will unilaterally pull out of trade agreements and other treaties.

But then, there's not much in the constitution about that.

Cheers,
Bart


Trump is more aware of the potential security issues than Germany regarding the gas line currently being installed from Russia that Europe will have to depend on  in the future.  How will Europe stand up to Russia in a pinch when they can threaten shutting off your heat?  Yet you and others accuse Trump as being naive in dealing with Russia.  You'll put your faith in Russia over America when we're in your country defending you against Russia?  What naivete and hypocrisy. 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/why-world-worries-about-russia-s-natural-gas-pipeline-quicktake

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #550 on: June 19, 2019, 09:25:15 am »

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #551 on: June 19, 2019, 09:40:25 am »

You'll put your faith in Russia over America   

Yep. That's the Trump effect!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #552 on: June 19, 2019, 10:29:20 am »

Since when has AOC been a presidential candidate? More fake news?

Fortunately, James Clark was too smart to fall for this obvious metaphorical trap, but luckily we have other forum members to happily volunteer.

AOC is the de facto leader of the Democratic Party and presidential king maker. Anyone she chooses to win the nomination would only be her proxy on the throne, keeping it warm for her until she matures enough (as it is ever going to happen) to run for President.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #553 on: June 19, 2019, 10:33:06 am »

... So what you seem to be saying is that it's ok for Trump to take foreign policy advice from the crown prince's of religious dictatorships...

A classic strawman argument.

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #554 on: June 19, 2019, 10:36:37 am »

Frankly, I think the world is waking to a new reality: old allies might never have been friends as such; they may simply have been playing the cards they thought, at the time, might suit their own tribal interests best. The problem is population: as we love to screw around so much, we are too many, and with not enough useful space and resources to go round, all of which eventually ends up as yet another existential crisis nations face.

The more technology advances, the fewer of us become necessary and the greater the number surplus to requirements. We create unemployment across the board, for the highly skilled as for the others. Global war was once a semi-natural way of resolving some of the procreation issues, but the nuclear deterrent has put paid to that old solution, so minor battles come along for fear of mutual annihilation if anyone steps that step too far. So you end up with struggles as in Syria where deaths are large in number, but nobody outside really gives much of a damn, other than as a means to gaining a new foothold as, with Russia, another outlet to warm seas. We lose real shops and create online, faceless institutions that are struggling to become monopolies so that they can then abandon competition and milk the public dry, the objective of most business models that deal with the public; why else would anyone have anything to do with it?

In order to keep unemployment figures low, MacJobs are created in civvy street, and/or the military continues to take people into its arms even when it costs more to train them for two years of compulsory "service" than there is work or need for them. Governmental book-faking and figures massage. If youth has little prospect of working its way to a reasonable standard of life, no wonder it goes underground and takes to crime and the accompanying violence that scares reasonable people off the streets at night. 

My friend, the Cuban tenor player, was having lunch today at the same place as I, and I stopped to chat on my way out. His take was that as there are so many robots working for us now, the pensions deficits might be solved by making the buggers pay taxes and National Health contributions too. I thought that Boris might take that up if he hears of it, or unless Farage thinks of it first. I think my musical friend was playing a little scherzo of the mind...

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #555 on: June 19, 2019, 10:41:14 am »

A classic strawman argument.


In the context he wrote that, no. It's valid, and demonstrates the political use of situation ethics yet again.

Rob

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #556 on: June 19, 2019, 10:41:31 am »

Who would have been a better choice.  A fact which at this point is painfully obvious.  Honestly, I can't even figure out what the complaint would be now.  Before it was how you can't trust her - she lies.  Or how her Clinton Foundation was supposedly corrupt. Or OMG her emails.  I mean, Trump has done all of those things and far worse just since assuming office.  And of course his supporters don't care now.  Surprise.  The debt ceiling?  Non issue.  Unauthorized personal electronic device? So what. Trump Foundation?  Actually forced to dissolve under court supervision.  And on and on and on and on.

The hypocrisy is astounding.
Unfortunately, it is wasted on the True Believers (good to read Eric Hoffer's short but wonderful book on this subject).  Just look at what happened at his campaign rally in Orlando yesterday.  Just a lot of lies and revisits of memes that roil up the crowd (really, is "...lock her up..." worth anything these days?).  Trump is at best a narcissistic amoral individual who cannot abide to be with anyone smarter than he is.  If you are, the exit light will quickly flash.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #557 on: June 19, 2019, 10:44:01 am »

Since when has AOC been a presidential candidate? More fake news?

Cheers,
Bart
The one who posted the original comment and to whom I don't read or directly respond ignores the convenient fact that Congresswomen Ocasio-Cortez is not old enough by the Constitution's standards to run for President.  Perhaps he does not understand "original intent."
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 10:47:30 am by Alan Goldhammer »
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #558 on: June 19, 2019, 10:47:49 am »

Unfortunately, it is wasted on the True Believers (good to read Eric Hoffer's short but wonderful book on this subject).  Just look at what happened at his campaign rally in Orlando yesterday.  Just a lot of lies and revisits of memes that roil up the crowd (really, is "...lock her up..." worth anything these days?).  Trump is at best a narcissistic amoral individual who cannot abide to be with anyone smarter than he is.  If you are, the exit light will quickly flash.

Alan, it's like the Catholic v. Protestant thing in Northern Ireland and the West of Scotland. AFAIK few of those people go to either church, but that prevents not violent hatreds based on those empty aisles.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #559 on: June 19, 2019, 10:48:54 am »

The one who posted the original comment and to whom I don't read or directly respond ignores the convenient fact that Congresswomen Ocasio-Cortez is not old enough by the Constitution's standards to run for President.  Perhaps he does not understand "original intent."

Dream on, buddy.

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