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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 81201 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #280 on: June 07, 2019, 03:06:47 pm »

Nice dodge.  But how about answering the question?  Does the fact that an additional x people have coverage, and that people that were previously uninsurable can now be covered, matter to you?
Obamacare was a lousy way to do it.  90% of Americans were happy before.  And they don;t want to change to a single payer plan.  Competition is good in any business.  It keeps providers working harder to satisfy their customers.

Now it's a mess.  Rather than changing the entire health system, why not just figure out a way to help people who need it?  It's already being done to a large degree with Medicare and Medicaid and other payments the government makes. 

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #281 on: June 07, 2019, 03:22:33 pm »

Libertarianism is as discredited as communism. It is only slightly better because it never actually took hold anywhere so we have no historical record of its failures. Yet.

Somalia seems to be a good example of a place where there is no government influence on anything.
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #282 on: June 07, 2019, 03:33:51 pm »

Of course, you won't be covered for charges you incur prior to signing up. Usually the big ones are when you are involved in an accident. I fell off a ladder and broke my humerus at the shoulder joint. Within twelve hours I had a plate and nine screws in my arm and a $30,000 bill. No time to call and sign up. Fortunately, I had insurance.


I like the returns; better than photography ever was for me, and much, much better than my old-age pension is. Do you think it's too late for me to begin another career in medicine?

:-)

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #283 on: June 07, 2019, 03:42:30 pm »

You must absolutely loathe Fox News.
Fox news has two outlets.  One is for cable talking heads and is conservative.  The other is mainly news and is center right.  But the problem is Fox is the only major conservative outlet.  ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, NY Times, washington Post, capture 90%+ of the news distribution throughout the world, never mind the USA.  They all push liberal news and are anti Trump and never give both sides of an issue.  So average Americans and other readers in the world don't really understand what's going on.  They've always been liberal.  But now they're unabashedly so and take strong positions that they would never do before.  It really is fake news. 

degrub

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #284 on: June 07, 2019, 05:27:48 pm »

you forgot WSJ, NPR, IHT,  & The Economist.
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D Fuller

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #285 on: June 08, 2019, 01:14:25 am »

Since it's the best doctors who opt out, you can't get the best care unless you're well-off.   If we go to a I national program, doctors will opt out of care for non-seniors.  Our medical system will have worse results.  If they force doctors to accept these lower payments, many who wanted to go into the medical field will decide to go into other more lucrative fields.   The quality of doctors will diminish.

Really? I thought it was the greediest doctors who opted out.

Our medical system already has worse results by several measures than many (most?) of the rest of the industrialized world. And yet we pay more. Doesn’t it seem like something is amiss?
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D Fuller

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #286 on: June 08, 2019, 01:23:11 am »

The biggest lies the president ever said were "you can keep your doctor" and "the cost of health insurance will go down."

Oh wait.....

Well, for my wife and myself, the first year under the ACA, we saved $8,000 on our health insurance, and more than that on out total health care costs. And no one asked us to change our doctors. YMMV
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #287 on: June 08, 2019, 07:39:19 am »

Really? I thought it was the greediest doctors who opted out.

Our medical system already has worse results by several measures than many (most?) of the rest of the industrialized world. And yet we pay more. Doesn’t it seem like something is amiss?

I said if the government forces all doctors to accept lower payments and not allow them to opt out, something that is not currently done, many excellent prospective doctors will decide not to go into medicine.  So the overall quality of doctors doing medicine will diminish. 


Regarding results in America compared to other countries, I suspect this has a lot to do with variables due to DNA, racial, ethnic and cultural differences as America is an immigrant nation.  So some groups fare better than others, but the overall results does not show that most Americans actually get very good medical care that saves lives and makes them more productive.  Other countries have a more homogenized populace.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find medical result statistics in America broken out by these variables.  I think they're deliberately hidden to politically press for single payer medicine.  I'd like to see statistics broken out by race, ancestry, geographic area of the country (ie southern vs eastern vs plains states, etc).  By each of the 50 States. etc.  I think the statistics would be quite revealing and results quite variable than a single number for the whole country. .

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #288 on: June 08, 2019, 07:58:39 am »

I said if the government forces all doctors to accept lower payments and not allow them to opt out, something that is not currently done, many excellent prospective doctors will decide not to go into medicine.  So the overall quality of doctors doing medicine will diminish. 


Regarding results in America compared to other countries, I suspect this has a lot to do with variables due to DNA, racial, ethnic and cultural differences as America is an immigrant nation.  So some groups fare better than others, but the overall results does not show that most Americans actually get very good medical care that saves lives and makes them more productive.  Other countries have a more homogenized populace.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find medical result statistics in America broken out by these variables.  I think they're deliberately hidden to politically press for single payer medicine.  I'd like to see statistics broken out by race, ancestry, geographic area of the country (ie southern vs eastern vs plains states, etc).  By each of the 50 States. etc.  I think the statistics would be quite revealing and results quite variable than a single number for the whole country. .


Doctors are both socially and locationally mobile; we have a Cuban girl here in the local health centre who picked up English from tv and music; with the lingua franca you can go anywhere you are in deep demand. Some of my wife's oncologists were American-trained as was the Spanish heart one who stuck me my first stent; he came replete with a sense if humour. As I lay there, gazing at the monitor, I felt a bit faint and as they asked, thought it best to mention it. He instantly gave me some nitroglycerine and that fixed it. I suggested that might be explosive, and he sad no, not unless you wanna smoke right now.

That was on private medicine; I don't try jokes with the public cats. Maybe I should?

And that's the problem with our olde rustbelt Brexit guys: they mostly have but one lingua and sometimes that's pretty poor too; no additional abilities means no viable alternatives in your life, so relative isolation figures. Ask Slobodan if that isn't a fact? Hence the great divide between the urban south and the sticks oop north.

Does anyone know if Big Donald has other languages?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #289 on: June 08, 2019, 08:23:50 am »

Rob, why is it that the British socialized medicine doesn’t have enough own doctors and nurses? You guys are that dumbed down by Benny Hill or beer to graduate in medical fields? Or is it that, when medicine is socialized, the state determines how much is enough pay*? And for that much (or rather little) only third-world medical staff finds it attractive?

* added “pay” to avoid confusion
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 11:51:55 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #290 on: June 08, 2019, 08:27:26 am »


Doctors are both socially and locationally mobile; we have a Cuban girl here in the local health centre who picked up English from tv and music; with the lingua franca you can go anywhere you are in deep demand. Some of my wife's oncologists were American-trained as was the Spanish heart one who stuck me my first stent; he came replete with a sense if humour. As I lay there, gazing at the monitor, I felt a bit faint and as they asked, thought it best to mention it. He instantly gave me some nitroglycerine and that fixed it. I suggested that might be explosive, and he sad no, not unless you wanna smoke right now.

That was on private medicine; I don't try jokes with the public cats. Maybe I should?

And that's the problem with our olde rustbelt Brexit guys: they mostly have but one lingua and sometimes that's pretty poor too; no additional abilities means no viable alternatives in your life, so relative isolation figures. Ask Slobodan if that isn't a fact? Hence the great divide between the urban south and the sticks oop north.

Does anyone know if Big Donald has other languages?

Doctors in America are transitioning to more and different ethnic groups.  My heart surgeon of Japanese background was rated one of the tops in one of the top rated hospitals in NYC.  So not only do different groups of patients in the US effect medical results.  It would be interesting to see how different doctor groups effect that number.   Many doctors in the US have gotten their training in other countries.  That's a rather new statistic.  Where I live in central New Jersey, there are huge numbers of doctors of Indian descent.  As we go to more government control of medicine, this change will increase. 

RSL

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #291 on: June 08, 2019, 08:53:58 am »

Same thing here in Florida, Alan. Vast numbers of Indian doctors, and they're excellent doctors. My endodontist is Indian, and he saved a tooth the supposedly best endodontist in Colorado Springs said would have to be extracted and replaced with an implant. My crack dermatologist is Chinese, well known as the best in the area.
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jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #292 on: June 08, 2019, 08:58:47 am »

Same thing here in Florida, Alan. Vast numbers of Indian doctors, and they're excellent doctors. My endodontist is Indian, and he saved a tooth the supposedly best endodontist in Colorado Springs said would have to be extracted and replaced with an implant. My crack dermatologist is Chinese, well known as the best in the area.

Eh? Slobo says that getting foreign doctors is due to poor planning. Is he getting it wrong, again?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #293 on: June 08, 2019, 09:00:02 am »

... And that's the problem with our olde rustbelt Brexit guys: they mostly have but one lingua and sometimes that's pretty poor too...

Ah, the benefits of the splendid isolation on an island!

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #294 on: June 08, 2019, 09:01:00 am »

To continue:

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #295 on: June 08, 2019, 09:03:22 am »

Ah, the benefits of the splendid isolation on an island!

That's why the people of Hartlepool are affectionately known as "Monkeyhangers".  Unfortunately their outlook does not seem to have improved since that incident.
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #296 on: June 08, 2019, 09:14:18 am »

That poor monkey! Imagine picking Hartlepool for your first visit! Imagine picking Hartlepool.

Just kidding.

;-)

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #297 on: June 08, 2019, 09:18:55 am »

That poor monkey! Imagine picking Hartlepool for your first visit! Imagine picking Hartlepool.

Just kidding.

;-)

I guess he saw Middlesbrough and thought that Hartlepool was relatively picturesque :-)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #298 on: June 08, 2019, 09:30:57 am »

Eh? Slobo says that getting foreign doctors is due to poor planning. Is he getting it wrong, again?

I said poor paying, not poor planning (though that probably too).

Two possible explanations:

1. My own team scored an autogol (own goal). I'll have to bench Alan and Russ for the next couple of games, it seems.

2. America is a land of immigrants, so it stands to reason that some of them will be doctors. We also educate a lot of foreign students, some of them will stay as doctors as well. We do not have many foreign nurses, though. Doctors are highly paid here, probably the highest in the world, and that attracts immigrants. America is also known to attract the best talent from the rest of the world. The hurdle to get American medical recertification is extremely hard and takes a long time, only the best will get through. Those who fail, end up in Britain, I guess.

 ;)

faberryman

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #299 on: June 08, 2019, 09:33:24 am »

Does anyone know if Big Donald has other languages?
He can barely speak English and has an extremely limited vocabulary. Something on the order of fifth grade. Probably the reason he appeals to his base - order white men without a college education.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 09:53:28 am by faberryman »
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