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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 81216 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #200 on: June 05, 2019, 05:20:04 pm »

... The app simply documents the border and accumulates the agreement acknowledgement between neighbours. Not a lawyer in sight...

Back in the day, in my home country, land disputes were also handled without a lawyer. One party would leave the dispute vertically, the other horizontally.

32BT

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #201 on: June 05, 2019, 05:24:04 pm »

You are confused. I wrote that a system of rules must be in place for any country to function at all. How well that system might work in particular instances is irrelevant to the principle.

Jeremy

No, I'm fairly certain that I'm merely derailed but not confused. If, hypothetically, a system doesn't work in the majority of the cases, then the country is dysfunctional, and the nation existence in turmoil. The guarantee of borders then depends largely on agreement with surrounding nations. That said: Tibet, Taiwan, HK , and the South China sea seem to be good examples where rules of law apparently are easily superseded by what perhaps could be considered foreign rule of law. A result btw of monetary windfall.
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32BT

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #202 on: June 05, 2019, 05:25:46 pm »

Back in the day, in my home country, land disputes were also handled without a lawyer. One party would leave the dispute vertically, the other horizontally.

Depending on who had the larger family, no doubt. ;-)
(Would explain the large families in underdeveloped nations...)
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #203 on: June 05, 2019, 05:25:53 pm »

But health aid ISN'T free, Rob. NOTHING that has to be produced is free.

Of course not, Russ, that has never been imagined! The point is, it's free at the point of delivery, where and when you need it most,

Of course it's paid for via a mixture of taxation and social security payments, but those are deducted from your earnings and when you have no work or make too little for it to count, you still get exactly the same service, regardless.

And yes, Britain and Spain, in my experience, both offer separate, private insurance if you want it; in Spain, the same docs often work in both systems and hospitals, public and private. We paid private insurance for years, until Ann discovered in an emergency that the treatment she got in the state system was every bit as good - if not better - than we bought privately on top of that; some ops that are diagnosed in private hospitals are sent straight to the state institutions for the doing.

The massively important thing is this: nobody is left lying on the floor whilst their insurance is checked out, which is how I believe the great jazz singer Bessie Smith was allowed to run out of blood. You are simply not under any obligation to go private at any stage, however rich or poor you may be.

Apart from some impossibly expensive drugs that are probably too expensive for private patients too, cost of medication is not a problem.

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #204 on: June 05, 2019, 05:26:37 pm »

We're all adults here. Can we please stop criticizing these systems because they're not "free". Of course they're not free, everyone knows this. They are national insurance policies, everyone understands this. We use the word free in informal conversations as a shorthand.

Not true.   Supporters of national health programs tell everyone it's "free" to gain support for these very expensive programs.  If you keep repeating "free", people will think it really is free when it's not.    We know what's going on.

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2019, 05:27:58 pm »

Back in the day, in my home country, land disputes were also handled without a lawyer. One party would leave the dispute vertically, the other horizontally.
Where did they bury the horizontal one since he had no land any more?

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2019, 05:36:17 pm »

Not true.   Supporters of national health programs tell everyone it's "free" to gain support for these very expensive programs.  If you keep repeating "free", people will think it really is free when it's not.    We know what's going on.

That's bullshit. Do you imagine nobody inspects their wage slip to see where the money has gone? Perhaps you did that, but not anybody I worked beside when I worked beside other wage slaves.

Rob

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #207 on: June 05, 2019, 05:37:00 pm »

Of course not, Russ, that has never been imagined! The point is, it's free at the point of delivery, where and when you need it most,

Of course it's paid for via a mixture of taxation and social security payments, but those are deducted from your earnings and when you have no work or make too little for it to count, you still get exactly the same service, regardless.

And yes, Britain and Spain, in my experience, both offer separate, private insurance if you want it; in Spain, the same docs often work in both systems and hospitals, public and private. We paid private insurance for years, until Ann discovered in an emergency that the treatment she got in the state system was every bit as good - if not better - than we bought privately on top of that; some ops that are diagnosed in private hospitals are sent straight to the state institutions for the doing.

The massively important thing is this: nobody is left lying on the floor whilst their insurance is checked out, which is how I believe the great jazz singer Bessie Smith was allowed to run out of blood. You are simply not under any obligation to go private at any stage, however rich or poor you may be.

Apart from some impossibly expensive drugs that are probably too expensive for private patients too, cost of medication is not a problem.


In the USA, many doctors have opted out of Medicare, the government program for seniors.  They will not accept the lower Medicare payments.  If you want their services, you have to pay their much higher charges out of pocket.  There's no reimbursement from insurance or Medicare.   Since it's the best doctors who opt out, you can't get the best care unless you're well-off.   If we go to a national program, doctors will opt out of care for non-seniors.  Our medical system will have worse results.  If they force doctors to accept these lower payments, many who wanted to go into the medical field will decide to go into other more lucrative fields.   The quality of doctors will diminish.

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #208 on: June 05, 2019, 05:40:21 pm »

That's bullshit. Do you imagine nobody inspects their wage slip to see where the money has gone? Perhaps you did that, but not anybody I worked beside when I worked beside other wage slaves.

Rob
Rob, In America, we don;t yet have national healthcare except for the elderly and indigent.  So many politicians repeat "free" to gain support for these programs.  So it may be different here than in countries like yours where it's already be implemented.  In any case, your wage slip doesn't show all the costs.  How much of health care is paid with the VAT sales taxes?  They wouldn't show on wage slips. 

faberryman

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #209 on: June 05, 2019, 05:40:50 pm »

In the USA, many doctors have opted out of Medicare, the government program for seniors.  They will not accept the lower Medicare payments.  If you want their services, you have to pay their much higher charges out of pocket.  There's no reimbursement from insurance or Medicare.   Since it's the best doctors who opt out, you can't get the best care unless you're well-off.   If we go to a national program, doctors will opt out of care for non-seniors.  Our medical system will have worse results.  If they force doctors to accept these lower payments, many who wanted to go into the medical field will decide to go into other more lucrative fields.   The quality of doctors will diminish.
So you had a substandard doctor do your heart procedure under Medicare? I'm surprised. You spoke so positively about the quality of your treatment.
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jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #210 on: June 05, 2019, 05:42:02 pm »

It's really tiring how Europeans constantly criticize America as being unfeeling.

How are illegals handled in Europe?

They’re kept in cages at the border. No ... hang on a mo ...
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #211 on: June 05, 2019, 05:44:16 pm »

Back in the day, in my home country, land disputes were also handled without a lawyer. One party would leave the dispute vertically, the other horizontally.


Ah! How the west was won! I'm sure John Wayne rode to some of the rescues or funerals. As for the Sioux, the Comanche et al. I bet they were thrilled by the rule of law and the Constitution.

Reminds me of Norman Parkinson speaking of women and fur coats: he claimed that the women he photographed looked as if they had earned them vertically. I liked that.

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #212 on: June 05, 2019, 05:46:40 pm »

In the USA, many doctors have opted out of Medicare, the government program for seniors.  They will not accept the lower Medicare payments.  If you want their services, you have to pay their much higher charges out of pocket.  There's no reimbursement from insurance or Medicare.   Since it's the best doctors who opt out, you can't get the best care unless you're well-off.   If we go to a national program, doctors will opt out of care for non-seniors.  Our medical system will have worse results.  If they force doctors to accept these lower payments, many who wanted to go into the medical field will decide to go into other more lucrative fields.   The quality of doctors will diminish.

Did you read that back before posting it? You do know it makes no sense at all, right?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #213 on: June 05, 2019, 05:46:53 pm »

Civil courts are only necessary when people can't agree when there are disputes.  If both parties can reach an agreement, then there is a settlement.  Happens all the time.  In fact, most disagreements are settled out of court through a process of negotiation and then settlement without even a thought of going to trial.   Lawyers and courts cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to reach a conclusion.  Most people prefer settlements.   Trusting a civil jury even when you think you are right is fraught with risk.  I know.  Believe me.
It's interesting that all the major credit card companies are now sending out notices that if there is a dispute it must be settled by binding arbitration rather than the legal system.  One can opt out if you read the whole notice by sending a letter by some date in August.  More things are being pushed into arbitration these days.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #214 on: June 05, 2019, 05:50:36 pm »


Ah! How the west was won! I'm sure John Wayne rode to some of the rescues or funerals. As for the Sioux, the Comanche et al. I bet they were thrilled by the rule of law and the Constitution...

Hold your horses, Rob, I was talking about my old home country, Serbia.

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #215 on: June 05, 2019, 05:50:51 pm »

Rob, In America, we don;t yet have national healthcare except for the elderly and indigent.  So many politicians repeat "free" to gain support for these programs.  So it may be different here than in countries like yours where it's already be implemented.  In any case, your wage slip doesn't show all the costs.  How much of health care is paid with the VAT sales taxes?  They wouldn't show on wage slips.

VAT isn't part of your wage slip; it's a tax levied on services and goods, sometimes at different rates and with some exceptions. It was introduced into the UK with the advent of joining Europe. Or at least, that's how I remember it and the fresh dose of paperwork that came with it entering my life.

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2019, 05:53:04 pm »

Hold your horses, Rob, I was talking about my old home country, Serbia.


I understood that; I was extending the concept to your present nirvana, where it is no less real.

Rob

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #217 on: June 05, 2019, 05:54:20 pm »

So you had a substandard doctor do your heart procedure under Medicare? I'm surprised. You spoke so positively about the quality of your treatment.

Good question.  Was there a better surgeon available.  Truth is, I don;t know.  I used him because my cardiologist, who accepts Medicare, recommended him as being the best.  He was Japanese.  I thanked him in Japanese, the only few words I learned when I was stationed in Japan in the 1960's.   "domo arigatou gozaimasu"   Fortunately, I'm still alive and kicking so I guess he did a good job.  Check back in a few years to see how I'm doing.

In a different medical situation, my urology surgeon, top in his field,  has opted out of Medicare.  But I had that surgery years ago when my insurance paid for it.  When I see him for followup checkups now that I'm on Medicare, I have to pay his full charge out of pocket.  Neither Medicare nor my secondary nor tertiary insurance covers his charges.  90% of Americans don't realize this is going on with Medicare.

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #218 on: June 05, 2019, 05:57:24 pm »

VAT isn't part of your wage slip; it's a tax levied on services and goods, sometimes at different rates and with some exceptions. It was introduced into the UK with the advent of joining Europe. Or at least, that's how I remember it and the fresh dose of paperwork that came with it entering my life.
I said the VAT wasn;t part of your wage slip.  Since VAT pays for some of the medical costs, then a person wouldn't see what medical costs are costing them by just looking at their wage slip. SO they might think it's free or cheap. 

Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #219 on: June 05, 2019, 06:00:07 pm »

Where did they bury the horizontal one since he had no land any more?

It's what rivers and concrete mixers are for doing: taking problems elsewhere and burying the evidence in deep foundations that only terrorists or earthquakes will reveal.
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