The American Constitution

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

AOC's role is grossly overestimated. The reason seems to be linked to a campaign to demonize her.

Did Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ‘Chase’ Amazon Out of Her NYC District?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-amazon/

What's True
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez was a vocal opponent of Amazon's opening a second headquarters in Queens, New York City.

What's False
Ocasio-Cortez was not the sole force behind Amazon's withdrawing their plan to open a site in New York City, and many other public officials and residents opposed the plan as well. Long Island City, where HQ2 was slated to be located, is also not in her district.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Just to clarify a couple of points.  I worked in Long Island City (LIC) for 40 years and know it very well.  LIC is booming, even without Amazon.  Construction of office buildings and apartments continues unabated.   There are about 5-6 main subway lines plus the Long Island Railroad going through there.  I'd drive to mid-town Manhattan in 20-30 minutes.  It's two stops by subway.  Or a short bus ride.  It's nearby to LaGuardia and Kennedy Int'l Airports.
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/7/2/19102639/amazon-hq2-long-island-city-real-estate

Having said that, getting an additional 25000 jobs would have been a major plus for the community and city.   While I agree that corporations ought to not get relief, there's major competition between states to bring in businesses.  NYS has been losing companies to other states by the boatload due to high taxes and costs to do business. So, there are already NY incentives for any company to go there and much of the incentives were already baked in for Amazon without any negotiation required on their part.   A corporation may not be a person.  But there are people working for them.  And 25,000 jobs are considerable even for a big town like NYC.

[Alan Klein]

There was an interesting story in the NY Times over the weekend on problems Kansas and Missouri were having because of tax abatements handed out to encourage companies to locate there.  As you know Kansas City is split between the two states and companies would play off one state against the other to get sweetheart tax deals.  Most of the corporate moves were 10 miles to one side of the river or the other.  Employees were usually not troubled but each city ended up losing revenue because of this.  they are in the process of legislatively fixing this problem.

You live in Virginia Alan don;t you?  AMazon's move to Virginia is a boon for your state.  Our loss is your gain. 

[Alan Klein]

AOC's role is grossly overestimated. The reason seems to be linked to a campaign to demonize her.

Did Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ‘Chase’ Amazon Out of Her NYC District?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-amazon/

Cheers,
Bart

So she's off the hook because other people also opposed it? 

"Officer, we were all swinging our fists.  Why are you picking on me?"

[JoeKitchen]

Just to clarify a couple of points.  I worked in Long Island City (LIC) for 40 years and know it very well.  LIC is booming, even without Amazon.  Construction of office buildings and apartments continues unabated.   There are about 5-6 main subway lines plus the Long Island Railroad going through there.  I'd drive to mid-town Manhattan in 20-30 minutes.  It's two stops by subway.  Or a short bus ride.  It's nearby to LaGuardia and Kennedy Int'l Airports.
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/7/2/19102639/amazon-hq2-long-island-city-real-estate

Having said that, getting an additional 25000 jobs would have been a major plus for the community and city.   While I agree that corporations ought to not get relief, there's major competition between states to bring in businesses.  NYS has been losing companies to other states by the boatload due to high taxes and costs to do business. So, there are already NY incentives for any company to go there and much of the incentives were already baked in for Amazon without any negotiation required on their part.   A corporation may not be a person.  But there are people working for them.  And 25,000 jobs are considerable even for a big town like NYC.

Thanks for the clarity on the subway stops. 

I still feel though that the boom is only really happening in and around Jackson and Queens Plaza, or from what I see when I go there.  (I am often traveling to NYC for work and almost always stay in LIC since it is fairly inexpensive.  Plus Bierocracy is one damn fine German beer hall!) 

The waterfront is not really that inviting and there are still a fair amount of abandoned buildings there.  Amazon was planning on building on the waterfront, which would have really brought the development a lot further. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

You live in Virginia Alan don;t you?  AMazon's move to Virginia is a boon for your state.  Our loss is your gain.

Bethesda Maryland and we had a wonderful site for the Amazon HQ-2 that made the final cut that was two miles from my house.  I would have loved to see them come here as my property value would go up 10-15% the next day!

[Robert Roaldi]

But it was not just conservatives, but Dems too who wanted this.  Mayor Bill and Governor Cuomo worked hard on this deal, and both were upset when it went south.  Both talked down on AOC for her part in ruining it. 

So, lets get our facts straight next time before we start foul mouthing conservatives, especially since NYC Dems were also for this.

Fair point, so far as it goes. I was thinking of the "conservatives" on this thread, not of the participating politicians in general. Left vs Right questions are often bogus these days anyways. I would call myself a fiscal conservative but a social liberal. That is, governments should be careful how they spend our money (especially when they give it away to corporate welfare bums and their fellow travellers who later condescendingly preach to me about "free markets") but I don't give a damn who my neighbour has sex with, so long as they're adults. 

And I resent you calling the expression of my opinions as "mouthing off".

[Robert Roaldi]

But, speaking of "mouthing off", here's an example of denial newspeak from someone trying to re-invent the meaning of English words: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/453289-house-gop-leader-says-trumps-tweets-were-not-racist.

White is black.

Up is down.

Two legs good, four legs bad.

[JoeKitchen]

Fair point, so far as it goes. I was thinking of the "conservatives" on this thread, not of the participating politicians in general. Left vs Right questions are often bogus these days anyways. I would call myself a fiscal conservative but a social liberal. That is, governments should be careful how they spend our money (especially when they give it away to corporate welfare bums and their fellow travellers who later condescendingly preach to me about "free markets") but I don't give a damn who my neighbour has sex with, so long as they're adults. 

And I resent you calling the expression of my opinions as "mouthing off".

Apologies for that. 

I just don't like the broad brush strokes on conservatives, and also when people make critiques against conservatives for things liberals were also for.  This Amazon debacle was only supported by the most fringe left; everyone else was for it, not just conservatives. 

[JoeKitchen]

But, speaking of "mouthing off", here's an example of denial newspeak from someone trying to re-invent the meaning of English words: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/453289-house-gop-leader-says-trumps-tweets-were-not-racist.

White is black.

Up is down.

Two legs good, four legs bad.

Well Trump certainly likes to step in it and take others down with him. 

I thought the spate between Pelosi and the four was quite comical, an unforeseen yet logical conclusion of identify politics.  If you insist on using it against the other party and teach the youths this is how it works, dont be surprised when they then use it against you as well. 

I still dont think this is going to effect anything other then a week of polling. 

[amolitor]

Amazon's choices had nothing to do with politics. They simply looked through the offers and noticed that two of them had neglected to insert exclusivity clauses, and they decided they'd like to double-dip.

Having amazon come to town is terrible. They completely trashed Seattle.

[JoeKitchen]

Amazon's choices had nothing to do with politics. They simply looked through the offers and noticed that two of them had neglected to insert exclusivity clauses, and they decided they'd like to double-dip.

Having amazon come to town is terrible. They completely trashed Seattle.

How?  I seriously dont know. 

[amolitor]

Housing is a complete nightmare in Seattle. It gentrified thoroughly, so working class people have a hell of a time finding anywhere to live. It's the same problem across much of the western world, but it is amplified in places where there are a higher percentage of highly compensated workers. See, London, San Francisco, and to some extent NYC.

If you import a large whack of highly paid people fairly quickly, it throws the economy out of balance, right? Then you get politicians who listen to every grifter who comes along, and you get "solutions" that mainly profit the grifters, but rarely fix anything.

As soon as Amazon proposed HQ-2, things collapsed, and as of last fall Seattle paradoxically had a high vacancy rate, and no affordable housing (a snappy little $900K condo sitting empty does very little to help the bus driver who's looking for an apartment for his family, it turns out). I think things may be calming down now, but to be honest I have no checked back in recently.

I took a bunch of photos of FOR RENT/FOR SALE sandwich boards, and tent-encampments. There were a lot of both.

[Robert Roaldi]

Commercial monopolies were long held to be bad. Now they're good. Why doesn't everyone smell a rat?

[Alan Klein]

Thanks for the clarity on the subway stops. 

I still feel though that the boom is only really happening in and around Jackson and Queens Plaza, or from what I see when I go there.  (I am often traveling to NYC for work and almost always stay in LIC since it is fairly inexpensive.  Plus Bierocracy is one damn fine German beer hall!) 

The waterfront is not really that inviting and there are still a fair amount of abandoned buildings there.  Amazon was planning on building on the waterfront, which would have really brought the development a lot further. 

I think LIC problem is there's not much street life yet.  But otherwise it's booming, fastest growing neighborhood in the country after Brooklyn.  Here's a year old article about it.  It still is growing despite Amazon not moving there.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/09/nyc-real-estate-living-in-long-island-city.html

[Alan Klein]

Housing is a complete nightmare in Seattle. It gentrified thoroughly, so working class people have a hell of a time finding anywhere to live. It's the same problem across much of the western world, but it is amplified in places where there are a higher percentage of highly compensated workers. See, London, San Francisco, and to some extent NYC.

If you import a large whack of highly paid people fairly quickly, it throws the economy out of balance, right? Then you get politicians who listen to every grifter who comes along, and you get "solutions" that mainly profit the grifters, but rarely fix anything.

As soon as Amazon proposed HQ-2, things collapsed, and as of last fall Seattle paradoxically had a high vacancy rate, and no affordable housing (a snappy little $900K condo sitting empty does very little to help the bus driver who's looking for an apartment for his family, it turns out). I think things may be calming down now, but to be honest I have no checked back in recently.

I took a bunch of photos of FOR RENT/FOR SALE sandwich boards, and tent-encampments. There were a lot of both.

LIC continues to grow by leaps and bounds despite Amazon not moving in.   Had they moved into it, LIC would not be overwhelmed like Seattle as NYC is a big city that absorbs these things fairly easily.  NYC has always had expensive neighborhoods.  But it's big enough with its out boroughs where you have lower rents.  Plus NYC has good subway and bus systems that workers can get to work easily and efficiently.

[LesPalenik]

Not only US Constitution, this time Trump is being asked to defend Hong Kong constitution.

[Rob C]

Very bad move on the part of those who seek to retain some freedoms.

The first time I noticed this was when they took over the government building and displayed the British colours. Really dumb: it makes China think they are into sedition and inviting foreign military intervention. If you want to make things worse, needle with a sharp stick.

Of course, there remains the distinct possibility that those people doing that are attempting the same thing as did those who took over the gilets jaunes and went very violent. If China is behind them, then they give her the perfect excuse for wading in with an iron fist: maintaining law and order.

[LesPalenik]

Very bad move on the part of those who seek to retain some freedoms.

The first time I noticed this was when they took over the government building and displayed the British colours. Really dumb: it makes China think they are into sedition and inviting foreign military intervention. If you want to make things worse, needle with a sharp stick.

Of course, there remains the distinct possibility that those people doing that are attempting the same thing as did those who took over the gilets jaunes and went very violent. If China is behind them, then they give her the perfect excuse for wading in with an iron fist: maintaining law and order.

That will be a very probable sequel.
Similar to Prague spring in 1968 and Russian invasion to crack down on reformist movements. Although Czech demonstrations were never as violent as the ones by gilets jaunes in Paris or the latest ones in Hong Kong.

[degrub]

just look at the result of Tiananmen Square protests of 1989...