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Author Topic: Color Space and Photoshop Elements  (Read 1352 times)

jrsforums

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 01:33:02 pm »

Single DLP chip projectors suck eggs for images. See for yourself:
https://colorlightoutput.com


https://colorlightoutput.com/videos/Color-brightness-technical-video.mp4

While interesting, how does this help the question asked?
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John

digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 02:54:10 pm »

While interesting, how does this help the question asked?
It CLEARLY address the comment about the projector being too dark. That is IF you actually watch the video!
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2019, 03:00:11 pm »

Wow! That video explains why single DLP projectors have such crappy gamuts.
Not all, just single chip DLPs. Multiple units are VERY expensive and don't suffer the same limitations. They are designed for high end movie projector systems and cost big bucks. But for the presentation market, they suck color wise. Some don't even have a white LED segment! The white segment is just to raise the spec for lumens that most uneducated consumers think is the ultimate spec for buying a projector. And for black text on a white background, that's true. For color images? Not at all a useful spec. Hence Color Light Output. Good luck finding a DLP using that spec, it doesn't make their products look so good (because for images, they are not).
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Andrew Rodney
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jrsforums

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2019, 03:29:00 pm »

It CLEARLY address the comment about the projector being too dark. That is IF you actually watch the video!

So YOU KNOW it was a single DLP unit?

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John

digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2019, 03:36:38 pm »

So YOU KNOW it was a single DLP unit?
Want to place a bet it is?
By your own admission, there's a lot about this technology you don't know:
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The biggest problem is the projector.  I have seen really bad projection setups, better ones, but never good ones (I'm sure some professional setups do, but I have never seen them and have seen some people really try). 
Find an Epson 3 chip LCD!
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As I understand it (limited knowledge admitted), projectors are really difficult to profile properly.

Not so. I've profiled lots of them with an i1 Beamer.
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Then, most laptops (at least PCs) do not usually have graphic adapters which can support two profiles (projector/2nd monitor and built in monitor) and most free software is not built to support dual output.

True, but doesn't affect the profiled projector.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 03:41:38 pm by digitaldog »
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Andrew Rodney
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jrsforums

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2019, 04:10:50 pm »

Want to place a bet it is?
By your own admission, there's a lot about this technology you don't know:Find an Epson 3 chip LCD!
Not so. I've profiled lots of them with an i1 Beamer. 
True, but doesn't affect the profiled projector.

So you are just guessing....which you frequently chastised others over 😀
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John

jrsforums

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2019, 04:12:20 pm »

The real point, Andrew, is they asked for assistance, which you did not seem to wish to provide.  I am sure all that you said was “right”.  Just not helpful.
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John

digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2019, 04:58:44 pm »

So you are just guessing....which you frequently chastised others over 😀
I'm not guessing it's too dark; I was told so.
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2019, 05:04:00 pm »

The real point, Andrew, is they asked for assistance, which you did not seem to wish to provide. 
I've provided "them" plenty; you?
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I am sure all that you said was “right”.
Indeed, it was.
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Just not helpful
To you perhaps; speak for yourself, not others. The topic was: Color Space and Photoshop Elements and this is what I was told by the OP after posting on that subject:

Thanks for the link, Andrew.  Just what the doctor ordered.



I think the discussion started about projecting digital images at a camera club. 
No, it wasn't. Try reading the OP's question, the sentence ending with this symbol: ?
I've never used Elements, only Photoshop and Lightroom.  I run the competitions in a photo club and ask people to submit jpegs for digital projection in 8-bit color with sRGB as the color space.  A number of images come in untagged or as Adobe RGB.  After I mentioned this at the last competition I got a request from an Elements 15 user who said that his files get a Display P3 designation in Elements.  When I looked at his submitted jpegs, they were untagged.  What is the way, using Elements, to convert a file from Element's working space to sRGB?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 05:08:51 pm by digitaldog »
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Andrew Rodney
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GWGill

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2019, 08:02:07 pm »

I had no idea they added white (clear actually) rotating segments to boost the max white illuminance. That's going to shrink the gamut of the more luminous colors a lot. Well inside sRGB for the brighter colors.
And this idea is currently in re-run :- the "WOLED/WRGB" TV's that are all the rage at the moment have white LED per pixel to boost the HDR brightness, since OLED maximum output isn't high from a HDR perspective. If the white is just reserved for bright specular pixels, the effect won't be too awful, but given the mess that HDR encoding standards are with no clear demarcation between specular and non-specular content, and the low priority color accuracy has with TV manufacturers, I have my doubts about such displays.

[ There is confusion about the nomenclature - some "OLED" displays use a "white" OLEDs with RGB or RGBW filters over them. Hard to figure out how that can be efficient, but it seems to be about evening out the color change with aging - this way all the pixels age evenly at the fastest possible rate :-) ]
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Doug Gray

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2019, 09:37:31 pm »

And this idea is currently in re-run :- the "WOLED/WRGB" TV's that are all the rage at the moment have white LED per pixel to boost the HDR brightness, since OLED maximum output isn't high from a HDR perspective. If the white is just reserved for bright specular pixels, the effect won't be too awful, but given the mess that HDR encoding standards are with no clear demarcation between specular and non-specular content, and the low priority color accuracy has with TV manufacturers, I have my doubts about such displays.

[ There is confusion about the nomenclature - some "OLED" displays use a "white" OLEDs with RGB or RGBW filters over them. Hard to figure out how that can be efficient, but it seems to be about evening out the color change with aging - this way all the pixels age evenly at the fastest possible rate :-) ]
Fascinating Graeme! I had no idea they were doing this but I can see the competitive pressure at work. Kinda like gaming CRI with it's limited spectral set but worse.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 09:48:51 pm by Doug Gray »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2019, 11:31:34 pm »

I found out the projector is a Epson powerlite 1260. It's connected to the laptop running Window's Explorer Slideshow view.

Any recommendation regarding what the final photos should be in?  The projector seems pretty poor.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_1260.htm

digitaldog

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2019, 09:09:44 am »

I found out the projector is a Epson powerlite 1260. It's connected to the laptop running Window's Explorer Slideshow view.

Any recommendation regarding what the final photos should be in?  The projector seems pretty poor.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_1260.htm
The big question is; is Windows Explorer Slideshow color managed? If so what does it assumes for untagged images?
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Andrew Rodney
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rasworth

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Re: Color Space and Photoshop Elements
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2019, 11:03:17 am »

Windows Explorer Slideshow is not color managed, at least on my W10 Pro system.  I created a folder with 4 images (see attached), three with profiles (ProPhoto, Adobe1998, sRGB) and one with no profile (started out with sRGB).  Windows Explorer rendered the thumbnails correctly, appeared to assume sRGB on the no profile image, and Windows Photos also correctly rendered the images.  Slideshow appeared to treat all images as if they were sRGB, e.g. the ProPhoto image came out close to gray.

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - I should say, Windows Explorer appears to correctly convert all images to sRGB, then displays them with no color space conversion to the monitor.  On my wide gamut display the images are all shown as over saturated, as is typical on a W10 system.  Same with Photos.  Slideshow makes no attempt at all.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 11:10:15 am by rasworth »
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