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Author Topic: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag  (Read 1927 times)

bwana

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Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« on: February 14, 2019, 10:31:39 am »

Properly profiled monitor on windows 7 pc allows LR to print beautiful black and white images on moab slick rock, ilford galerie smooth pearl, and  canson baryta photographique. However, Hahnemuelle silver rag prints come out w greenish cast. I use the Epson semi gloss media type, the hahnemule icc profile, and am careful to turn off ‘printer manages colors’. There has been another thread here documenting a similar problem with the canon pro 2000
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=19ivtrt5jjc7vr8i025ftp7bg3&topic=122812.msg1023155

The solution there was usiing the semigloss media type. Has anyone found this paper’s icc profile to be off?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 10:39:25 am »

Is the Media Type you are using the one that Hahnemuhle recommends for their profile?

Once you verify that the Media Type is correct, try printing with Printer Color Management. If the cast goes away you will have pretty clear evidence that the problem is the profile, in which case you would want to order a custom profile if you intend to keep using that paper.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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I.T. Supplies

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 10:52:57 am »

You may not have the proper profile anyway since Hahnemuhle doesn't make a silver rag.  That's Museo's product.
Museo states to use their profile under "software manages color" and choose "luster" for the media type.

You can get their profile from Museo's site here: https://www.museofineart.com/icc-profile/

If the profile still doesn't work and you want to try a custom profile, feel free to contact us as we make them.

Hope this helps.
IT Supplies
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 10:54:22 am »

Yes, good catch!
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rand47

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 11:24:41 am »

This is a digression from the intent of the OP for this thread.  But let me offer something from my experience with Museo Silver Rag.  A year or two ago I began having issues with my prints having white spots appear either immediately out of the printer, or after the print had cured.  I went crazy trying to figure this out.  Took months to track down the cause.  VERY long story short, it was Museo Silver Rag paper that was “shedding” white particles inside my printer(s).  These tiny (and sometimes not so tiny) flakes would find their way onto the surface of other papers being fed into the printer, get inked, then fall off the print subsequently.  I’m meticulous about keeping my printers clean, dust free, covered when not actually in use, etc., so the “problem” was driving me bonkers.  Mark may even remember me trying to get help on what might be the cause.  I even tried blowing the sheets off with canned air and wiping the edges of the paper with microfiber cloth prior to feeding it into the printer.  No joy.  I think that as the paper flexed (even very slightly) in the printers’ feed mechanisms (Epson 4880, R3000, SC P800) it must have been shedding materials from the edges.

So, suffice to say Museo Silver Rag is anathema to me now and will never be within 100’ of any of my printers going forward.  To be fair, it is possible that I had several bad batches of this paper - but I don’t think so.  Since I’ve banned it from my studio, I’ve never again experienced the flaking/white spot issues.
The remaining stock (sheets and roll) that I had went in the trash.  I’d not sell it to anyone for conscience sake.

This situation was one of those “too bad” things for me, because I really loved the look and feel of Museo Silver Rag and it produced some wonderful prints.

For what it’s worth.
Rand
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 11:33:58 am by Rand47 »
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Rand Scott Adams

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 11:35:45 am »

This is a digression from the intent of the OP for this thread.  But let me offer something from my experience with Museo Silver Rag.  A year or two ago I began having issues with my prints having white spots appear either immediately out of the printer, or after the print had cured.  I went crazy trying to figure this out.  Took months to track down the cause.  VERY long story short, it was Museo Silver Rag paper that was “shedding” white particles inside my printer(s).  These tiny (and sometimes not so tiny) flakes would find their way onto the surface of other papers being fed into the printer, get inked, then fall off the print subsequently.  I’m meticulous about keeping my printers clean, dust free, covered when not actually in use, etc., so the “problem” was driving me bonkers.  Mark may even remember me trying to get help on what might be the cause.
There was a similar problem, maybe five years ago, when Museo changed paper suppliers (I think it was the switch from Crane).  There was some question about whether there was a formulation change by Museo and colors would be different.  I volunteered to do some testing for the company and found no difference at all in the color output as judged from printing a 800 or so color patch set and reading patches from both the new and old batches of paper.  I've not encountered the problems you describe and wonder if the shedding comes from the uncoated side of the paper.  Was this coming from sheet or roll paper?  I've always liked the paper and I still have quite a bit of the 50 foot roll that they sent me for testing even though I only asked for a couple of sheets.
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Rand47

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 06:18:16 pm »

Quote
. . . Was this coming from sheet or roll paper? . . . 

Alan,

Both.  And I'm reasonably sure the paper I bought was after the coating issue you raised.

Rand
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bwana

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 10:10:56 pm »

well, i went back and checked my settings in lightroom. The profile I used was:
SILVERRAG_P800_UPPL_HQ
I misspoke when I said Hahnemule - dont know why I thought it was them. I followed the attached instructions.
The only thing I did differently was not to use superfine output (2880) but rather
1440 x 720 which is actually specified by the media type - ultrapremium photo luster.
I'll try it with 'printer manages color' without the Museo icc profile as you suggested above.
I'll  also try again with another media type, maybe give semigloss a try.

I also want to make sure I'm printing on the correct surface. One side is like paper, the other side is the one I am printing on and it has a waxy surface-almost like a photo emulsion.

I also found this thread
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98917.20
Similar problem but with a canson paper. I wonder if he ever solved it?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:22:02 pm by bwana »
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Fred Salamon

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 12:14:50 am »



I also found this thread
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98917.20
Similar problem but with a canson paper. I wonder if he ever solved it?
[/quote]

I did eventually solve the problem, I replaced the Epson 2200 with an Epson SC P800.
I felt that it was no longer worth the time and effort to resolve the issues I was having with the 2200.

Still printing on Canson Platine, and am very pleased with the quality of the prints.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 08:13:50 am »

Alan,

Both.  And I'm reasonably sure the paper I bought was after the coating issue you raised.

Rand
Museo has been bought and sold a couple of times and now is owned by privately held Dietzgen (the name is familiar to those of us of a certain age who used the eponymous slide rules in science and engineering courses prior to the introduction of hand held calculators!).  It's entirely possible that quality control has slipped, particularly since the market share of Museo paper has probably slipped relative to other manufacturers.  If so, it's really too bad as the Silver Rag is/was a really fine paper with one of the best black points of any paper I've measured.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 08:21:54 am »

There are lots of high quality alternatives on the market. The market is saturated with fine papers many of which have only minute differences distinguishing the one from the other. But I suspect this problem is not due to defective paper. It has to be a settings or profiling issue somewhere in the print pipeline. I'm waiting to hear back from the O/P whether there is still a greenish cast on a print done by Printer Manages Color. That will tell us something possibly useful. The diagnostics are not done yet on this one.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 08:27:00 am »


I also found this thread
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98917.20
Similar problem but with a canson paper. I wonder if he ever solved it?


I did eventually solve the problem, I replaced the Epson 2200 with an Epson SC P800.
I felt that it was no longer worth the time and effort to resolve the issues I was having with the 2200.

Still printing on Canson Platine, and am very pleased with the quality of the prints.

That was a smart move. As I recall from a long time back those early Epson printers could occasionally show up such issues and the 2200 is very, very dated. Glad you no longer need to be concerned about the problem, and therefore neither do we.  -:)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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bwana

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 11:06:47 am »

I finally got around to Mark's suggestion. Advanced B&W has NO color cast on the image compared to the stock Museo profile which still leaves a greenish tint. Clearly the profile for this Museo paper has been changed since when I purchased the paper (6 years ago). They probably regenerate their profiles with new batches of paper and the currently available profiles for the P800 likely are not optimal for this paper which is old. Another reason for me to profile my own papers.
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howardm

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2019, 12:39:09 pm »

if you take a look INSIDE the profile (using OSX Colorsync if you're on a Mac), you can see when the profile was made.

My hunch is that they do NOT regenerate them.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Greenish cast on Epson p800 and silver rag
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2019, 03:31:08 pm »

My hunch too, unless there were really major changes to the recipe. It seem this was likely just a case of a crummy profile.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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