Mamiya 7 vs Pentax 67? and Medium format film quesiton.

[kevs]

Thanks Elliot, you are saying they all come with only the 65mm lens, which is ok, but in all your images you are going to see the lens in the image or vignetting in your chromes, or just in the viewfinder?

[elliot_n]

The GSW690 comes with a fixed 65mm lens. (The GW690 comes with a fixed 90mm lens.)

The lens is visible in the rangefinder viewfinder - not in the final image.

Vignetting is an issue.

[kevs]

Thanks Elliot, wow confusing, they both have 90 in name but one is not a 90.
90= ? for 35 mm?
65 - for 35mm?

Ah.. ok I'd go with 65, more wide angle

[elliot_n]

The 65mm is equivalent to a 28mm lens (in 35mm terms).

The 90mm is equivalent to a 39mm lens (in 35mm terms).

[smthopr]

Thanks Elliot, wow confusing, they both have 90 in name but one is not a 90.
90= ? for 35 mm?
65 - for 35mm?

the "690" in the name is for 6x9cm sized negatives.  It doesn't have to do with the lens.

GW690 has a 90mm lens which is about like 40mm on a 35mm camera.
GSW690 has a 65mm lens which is about like 28mm on a 35mm camera.

You can see the lens in the bottom left corner of the viewfinder, but of course the actual photograph doesn't show the lens in the corner
I don't understand a previous comment about vignetting as I haven't seen anything unusual in that regard.

These cameras are big and simple, but much less expensive than a Mamiya 7II.  They make great photographs, but require a high quality scan to take advantage of them.

[kevs]

thanks Elliot and Bruce, just took a peek:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuji-GSW690III-film-camera-65-mm-1-5-6-near-mint-condition-fast-shipping/303051993442?hash=item468f4e7162:g:BD8AAOSwnk5cWbkC:rk:1:pf:0

says near mint, 225 shots, yet below that is says x10!... and the bottom of camera looks worn and scratched.. If I see near mint, to me that mean it like came out of box.

(some guy recently month ago,  selling a thousand dollar lens 12-24, and said only used once, decided not to go into real estate, had a little story why..yet the lens hood had a ding.. wrote him, he replied, oh, that what the hood is for to help take impact..and then I found his website his name was partly in the username, and  is a .. real estate photographer)

Would you guys be worried about it breaking? It could be repaired for a couple of hundred bucks.. or not?

[elliot_n]

It's not mint, but it seems to be in ok condition. It looks like the foam seals on the rear door have not dried out and crumbled (something to look out for).

[kevs]

Thanks, well why not put good condition, why put near mint? I would never do that.

So, in short, I'll keep an eye out for a near mint, with box/ manual.. then maybe get it..no rush... under 1/3 price of Mamiya, and bigger.
Would be cool... it's 1/2 size of a 4x5, so it could resolve to better than best digital 35s out there I would suppose? Maybe near the 100mp Phase one?

Would you  be worried about it breaking? It could be repaired for a couple of hundred bucks.. or not?

[elliot_n]

it's 1/2 size of a 4x5, so it could resolve to better than best digital 35s out there I would suppose? Maybe near the 100mp Phase one?

No. It will not out-resolve the best 35mm DSLRs. The results will be very similar (as I said at the beginning of this thread). The only way to out-resolve a digital SLR is to shoot large format film (ideally 8x10). 4x5 film out-resolves my Nikon D800 - but only just (the advantage is only visible in prints 4x5 ft and larger).

[kevs]

Thanks Eliot, interesting;  And even crazy big  prints it would be tough to tell?  9foot wide... I wish I new that before I spent all that time on those 4x5 kits I sold..  But it was fun to learn. such a beast.

"The only way to out-resolve a digital SLR is to shoot large format film (ideally 8x10)."  You forgot to include medum format digital no?  Fuji GFX 50 R should out resolve all 35mm dlsr right?

Finally again on the GW690 iii, if I'm still considering one for fun:  Would you  be worried about it breaking? It could be repaired for a couple of hundred bucks.. or not?

[Two23]

1. Thanks Eliot, interesting;  And even crazy big  prints it would be tough to tell?  9foot wide... I wish I new that before I spent all that time on those 4x5 kits I sold..  But it was fun to learn. such a beast.


2. Finally again on the GW690 iii, if I'm still considering one for fun:  Would you  be worried about it breaking? It could be repaired for a couple of hundred bucks.. or not?

1. The biggest print size I find really good from 4x5 is about 50 inches on longest side.  That's a x10 enlargement.  Has to be drummed scanned to max resolution (big bucks,) has to be printed by a place that knows what they're doing (more big bucks.)  Yes, I've had them done.  And remember when it comes to prints the actual print is only part of the equation.  The other is viewing distance.  Regularly shooting both 4x5 with pro lenses and Nikon D800E with Sigma ART lenses (always on a tripod of course) my experience is the D800E slightly edges out the 4x5 in technical matters.  But that's not why I mostly shoot 4x5 now.  Photography is an art and there are more important things than numbers & measurements to me.  I'm looking at 8x10, maybe even 11x14.  I'm not looking for the resolution/technical stuff from those formats, but rather the big negatives.  They can be contract printed using alternative processes (carbon, cyanotype, albumin, etc.)  Now those cameras are beasts!  My Chamonix 4x5 weighs less than my Nikon D800E.

2.  I collect cameras and have a number of them made from the 1880s (Watson half plate field camera) to 1983 (Nikon F3T.)  They are all professional cameras and are very, very solid.  No electronics* is a huge plus for repairability and endurance.  Even my cameras from the 1920s will almost certainly be working long after I'm gone.  The Fuji cameras are very solid, built for the professional market.  I buy a lot of historical camera gear and typically go for those a notch or two below "near mint."  I use them, not display them.  If I were to scratch or put a mark on a "near mint" camera I would be losing money when I resell it.  BTW, I buy a lot of stuff from Japan.  They practically worship camera gear there and it's almost always in better shape than what I buy from U.S. or Europe.


Kent in SD
*The F3T is the only
camera I have with
some electronics.

[elliot_n]

Thanks Eliot, interesting;  And even crazy big  prints it would be tough to tell?  9foot wide... I wish I new that before I spent all that time on those 4x5 kits I sold..  But it was fun to learn. such a beast.

The largest I've printed is 6ft x 7ft — digital c-types (Lightjet) from Imacon scans of 4x5 colour negative film. I felt that 4x5 film wasn't delivering quite enough resolution for that print size. But the prints were popular and the edition sold out. I wouldn't enlarge my Nikon D800 files to that size.

"The only way to out-resolve a digital SLR is to shoot large format film (ideally 8x10)."  You forgot to include medum format digital no?  Fuji GFX 50 R should out resolve all 35mm dlsr right?

I guess, a little bit.

Finally again on the GW690 iii, if I'm still considering one for fun:  Would you  be worried about it breaking? It could be repaired for a couple of hundred bucks.. or not?

I'm not sure you would find anyone who could repair them (no parts).

[kevs]

"Chamonix "  but .. my Sinars, were not about the weight Kirk, Your Chamonix, is on tripod, with cloth over your head, and looking at upside down image... and load one holder in... Nikon, just boom shoot a portrait of a person in front of you -- talking back and forth casually,  handheld...

But on the Fuji Kirk, who is repairing them and has parts? Old 4x5 in a way are easier to find repair, or new part.. My Sinars, I just throw away and buy a new one.. ($250.00 - this Fuji could cost $800)  And Eliot writes, " I'm not sure you would find anyone who could repair them (no parts). "  That we be a lot to eat... $700, $800 camera gone..

Tell me more about Japan, I've been actually resorting my Ebay results to exclude Japan. They have extra import fees no? That could be quite a lot? And then you are going to return something to Japan? if you have to?

[Peter McLennan]

I used the Pentax 67 for years, mainly FP4 and Fujichrome and almost always hand held because I was young and didn't know any better.  Looking at my scans from those days, I'm appalled at the image quality.  Mainly shake-induced blur. 

However, if you could crank the shutter speed high enough, it was a superb aerials camera, which is how I justified its expensive running costs.  The 55mm F4 lens was excellent for aerials, but suffered significant CA.  Something I was blind to, until Lightroom showed it to me.

The DSLR was for me a revolution in all respects. No comparison. My D800 is light years better than the 67 was.  I have the $5K Nikon scanner files to prove it. 

[Two23]

I'm not sure you would find anyone who could repair them (no parts).

There shouldn't be any problem finding a repair man for these mechanical cameras.  Precision Camera Works could very likely do it.  I had four different ones worked on in the past year.  In two cases they fabricated a new part.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

1. "Chamonix "  but .. my Sinars, were not about the weight Kirk, Your Chamonix, is on tripod, with cloth over your head, and looking at upside down image... and load one holder in... Nikon, just boom shoot a portrait of a person in front of you -- talking back and forth casually,  handheld...


2. Tell me more about Japan, I've been actually resorting my Ebay results to exclude Japan. They have extra import fees no? That could be quite a lot? And then you are going to return something to Japan? if you have to?

1. I take a fair number of paid portraits with the Chamonix, mostly people wanting portraits made in a period style with a historic lens.  I charge double than what I charge when using my Nikon DSLR.  I explain the camera to them, when the lens was made and a little about who made it, explain the different steps to them, and so on.  They forget to be nervous and I think the photos show them more naturally.  It's not "hurry hurry."  My customers get much more involved with the process than they do with the Nikon, and many of my customers come from word of mouth.  Everybody has a digital camera and the look of the prints is all very similar.  I have something unique, both the end product and the experience.   It's more of a "hand crafted" product, mostly appealing to my higher end customers.

2.  I buy historic lenses (and cameras) from all over the world.  I've routinely bought & sold rare lenses from many foreign countries over the past 20 years.  The only problems (3) that I had were from American sellers. Some of the very best sellers in the entire world are in either Belgium and Japan.  (UK uniformly good as well.)  I've likely bought over 8 items over the past 6 years from Japanese sellers with zero problems.  In fact, I greatly prefer buying from Japan as the items are usually better than what they describe.  A couple of years ago I bought a Nikon F3T the Japanese seller listed as "good condition."  I couldn't find any sign it had ever been used! The older cameras are almost always the property of older guys who are downsizing and have no one to sell them to domestically.  All of the items I've purchased were under priced to some extent.  Japanese seem to really treasure their cameras, I would even call it love.    Me, with my modern Nikons, am pretty hard on them and put them through hell here on the Northern Plains.  I really have no personal "relationship" with the new stuff, it's just a metal & plastic machine.  The Japanese are the opposite.    I almost hate posting this here as it's to my benefit that people won't bid against me for Japanese listings.


Kent in SD

[elliot_n]

I had four different ones worked on in the past year.  In two cases they fabricated a new part.

There you go - I stand corrected.

[tsjanik]

A comparison you may find helpful.  When I got a 645D, I compared it to a 645N and a Pentax 67II (Astia scanned on a Nikon 9000).
 Some results are in this post:
https://tsjanik.blogspot.com/2011/01/blog-post_2775.html
My own conclusion was that scanned 67 had a slight edge in resolution of the 40 MP digital.
The Pentax certainly does suffer from vibrations, but it is possible to get sharp shots even handheld, but it is necessary to do everything to dampen vibration and still there can be problems.  An example handheld and crop:
https://tsjanik.blogspot.com/2010/
https://tsjanik.blogspot.com/2010/

Hope these are helpful, I almost forgot about these posts from years ago.  The Pentax is a great camera, but so is the Mamiya.
Tom

NB  The last two links take you to too many images, scroll down to US 90 to see the full image and crop.

[kevs]

Kirk, thanks, you missed my question!
Yes I see tons of Japanese listing on ebay.. Excellent condition !!! Japan..

Again: I've been actually resorting my Ebay results to exclude Japan. They have extra import fees no? That could be quite a lot? And then you are going to return something to Japan? if you have to?

What I'm saying is I would imagine the import/ export/ visa etc fee could equal the camera lens no? What are we talking.. And imagine, if you want to then send it back.

[Two23]

Again: I've been actually resorting my Ebay results to exclude Japan. They have extra import fees no? That could be quite a lot? And then you are going to return something to Japan? if you have to?

What I'm saying is I would imagine the import/ export/ visa etc fee could equal the camera lens no? What are we talking.. And imagine, if you want to then send it back.

You are cutting yourself off from the best source of Japanese camera gear needlessly.  The Japanese sellers on ebay sell worldwide, not just to the U.S.  Some countries have import duties, VAT tax, national sales tax, etc.  If you live in one of those countries you will pay that standard fee just as you do on everything else you buy.  If you are fortunate to live in a country that does not charge any taxes or fees, such as the U.S., then you will pay NOTHING extra.  Price of the item and maybe shipping (if not free.)  What if you want to return it?  How would you return something if you bought it from a guy in Wyoming?  I assume you'd simply pay the postage and mail it back.  Japan is the same way except you might need to fill out a simple form at the post office (no charge.)  Japan and England have what might be the best postal services in the world too.

Kent in SD