Poll

What's your choice among the profusion of mirrorless systems (own or consider)

Sony (FE) - I like my frame full and my system complete?
- 55 (24.6%)
Fuji - Really good APS-C has plenty of pixels, and oh, those lenses?
- 45 (20.1%)
Nikon - two great bodies and five light, sharp lenses are a GREAT start?
- 33 (14.7%)
Micro 43 - I like my cameras light, fast or video-centric?
- 27 (12.1%)
Canon (EF-R) - I like my lenses FAST and my adapters with extra features?
- 15 (6.7%)
Fuji GFX - full frame is still a small sensor?
- 26 (11.6%)
Panasonic/Leica - anything with Leica lenses is worth the weight and cost?
- 14 (6.3%)
Something else - Sony APS-C(only - vote Sony if you also have FE) EOS-M? Nikon 1?
- 9 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 165


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Author Topic: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?  (Read 14266 times)

kers

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2019, 05:36:00 am »

The real moment of truth will be the 2020 Olympics in Japan.
Then the ML-cameras  have to be mature or the DSLR will be still in place with a new (latest?) generation.
In any case it will be Sony that will do the Olymics with ML - an upgraded A9, and more telelenses to choose from.
It will be interesting to see what Canon and Nikon will come up with and if they manage to put out an ML camera that is a better choice for sports than the DSLR.
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Dan Wells

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2019, 10:01:16 am »

We have 11 Sigma lenses so far for FF mirrorless, all of them  "stretched" DSLR lenses. As Bernard says, the advantages to these stretched lenses over an adapted lens are minimal. It does eliminate one mount, a place where the connection could be loose, not quite flat, or both. It could also eliminate an electronic translation - assuming Sigma put a chip that spoke native Sony or L-mount in the stretched lenses.

What a stretched lens does not do is allow the more innovative lens designs we've been seeing for mirrorless...

At least to me, a stretched lens is a very close relative of a lens on a very high-quality first party adapter (Nikon lens to Nikon body). If you count the 11 stretched lenses for L-mount and FE mount, I would say that you have to count all Nikon-manufactured F-mount lenses that are fully compatible with the FTZ as Z mount, and all Canon-manufactured EF lenses as EF-R. I would say cross-manufacturer adapters are a little different.

Maybe there are three categories of lenses - true native lenses, stretches and first-party adapted lenses (together), and lenses that were never meant to go on that body but have been made to work.

11 Sigmas so far, 7 (supposedly) to come for L-mount this year. Will they be 7 more uses of the lens-stretching machine, 7 new designs, or a few of each? If they are new designs, what mounts will they come in?
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Christopher

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2019, 04:53:34 pm »

Interesting times, for me one of the most interesting developments is what Sony is doing with their Auto focus. After trying out the 6400 I have to say it’s amazing what I can track and how good.

Here canon and Nikon have to play catch up because they are far behind.



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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2019, 06:24:12 pm »

Interesting times, for me one of the most interesting developments is what Sony is doing with their Auto focus. After trying out the 6400 I have to say it’s amazing what I can track and how good.

Here canon and Nikon have to play catch up because they are far behind.

I agree both do, but especially Canon who was already far behind Nikon in terms of tracking in the DSLR world. ;) Bird shooters have been migrating to Nikon in masses these past years.

Cheers,
Bernard

PeterAit

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2019, 11:51:54 am »

I have been perfectly happy with the Sony A7riii and a couple of their lenses (menus aside). The lenses are quite astounding, but with advances in the technology the Nikon, Canon, etc are likely just as good. I am a lot more interested in the photos than the equipment.

I also have an Olympus EM-1 with a few Lumix lenses, and it's a great system for when I need to travel light.
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Kirk_C

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2019, 01:03:16 am »

If correct, this probably means that there will be no gains in terms of image quality or compactness compared to DSLRs design also.

So no facts, just your opinion based on....no facts.

Are the Nikon mirrorless lenses more compact than their DSLR designs ?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2019, 01:27:40 am »

So no facts, just your opinion based on....no facts.

Are the Nikon mirrorless lenses more compact than their DSLR designs ?

They are the exact DSLRs lenses, same specs. I am not sure what you are disagreeing with?

Yes, the Nikon mirrorless lenses are more compact than the DSLR equivalent and are very different designs with higher performance.

Cheers,
Bernard

Christopher

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2019, 02:24:21 am »

The 70-200 looks huge. However, without a direct comparison it’s hard to say. It will be intriguing to see canon and Nikons approach to the 70-200.


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2019, 04:12:16 am »

The 70-200 looks huge. However, without a direct comparison it’s hard to say. It will be intriguing to see canon and Nikons approach to the 70-200.

Yes, it is close in size to the 70-200 f2.8 E FL. Just saw the protoype with my own eyes a few mins ago.

I have also played with the 24-70 f2.8. It feels smaller than the E but very robust.

There were A1 prints shot with the 14-30 f4... boy is this lens impressive. Tack sharp in the corners, small, light and weather sealed. The ideal landscape wide.

I played with the 58mm f0.95. It feels at f0.95 better than the Otus at f1.4... pretty much perfect in the corners.

Bokeh is to die for overall, but I have seen traces of aspherical elements grinding marks in some oof highlighs. Not bad but not perfect either. Too early to know for sure obviously.

There was an A1 print of a starry sky at f0.95 that revealed extremely low levels of coma in the very corners.

Finally, I tried eye AF and it works very very well.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 04:18:36 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Manoli

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2019, 09:18:52 am »

JIm Kasson : two of several articles on the Z series

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/visibility-of-nikon-z7-pdaf-banding/
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/where-is-accidental-pdaf-banding/

Yes, it seems there is banding, but I have never seen it so far in real world shooting.

Have you seen it in your images?

Cheers,
Bernard

Dan Wells

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2019, 11:10:48 am »

Hopefully Nikon comes out with a more compact telephoto - that 70-200 does look big! I'd love to see something like a 70-300 f4-5.6 PF (slow, but with quality comparable to the rest of the S line).

I'm really excited for the 14-30 - the few images floating around seem to be excellent.

I'm very disappointed by what Sigma's showing at CP+ (I've only seen it on the rumor sites, so it could obviously be wrong). Not only are the initial 11 lenses they're showing for L-mount (which are the most likely lenses we might see for Z or EF-R as well) all stretched DSLR lenses, the next three lenses on the roadmap are L versions of existing APS-C lenses for Sony E. There appears to be no new development effort going into mirrorless lenses.

Their L-mount camera looks to be a 20 MPx3 Foveon, which they're calling 60 MP... Yes, it'll be 20 really, really nice MP at base ISO, but it's still 20 MP. If older versions of Foveon are any indication, it'll resolve like a Bayer camera slightly under 40 MP, with terrific color but terrible ISO performance. I had hoped for more than that - say a 35 MPx3, which would substantially out-resolve any present Bayer sensor short of medium format. The penalties of Foveon (ISO, slow frame rates) are only worth paying when the low-ISO IQ is spectacular. There are plenty of Bayer cameras that already outresolve a 20 MPx3 Foveon, with color resolution that is very close.
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Manoli

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2019, 02:55:03 pm »

Yes, it seems there is banding, but I have never seen it so far in real world shooting.
Have you seen it in your images?

Bernard,

No I haven't primarily because I'm no longer using Nikon.
But instead of turning this into another brand war (see the 7-points in the second article), I picked up on the part where Jim comments that the banding was NOT a sensor issue but a rather an aggressive algorithm that Nikon employed to process data coming off the sensor.

If that's the case then it should be possible for Nikon to correct in the future.
I also picked up on the part that said he wouldn't use the cam for highest quality landscape images but rather the X1D. As he owns 3 Zx's , I'd discount brand loyalty or bias in that comment.

I read the post as a positive for those interested in Nikon.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 03:02:41 am by Manoli »
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armand

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2019, 04:01:13 pm »

Yes, it seems there is banding, but I have never seen it so far in real world shooting.

Have you seen it in your images?

Cheers,
Bernard

Hold your horses, I just found it literally minutes ago while playing with a shot.
Here is a quick view. I do have multiple bracketed shots of this but if I wanted to get it done in one shot I have banding.

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« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:03:28 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2019, 10:01:13 am »

double post
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 10:04:22 am by Martin Kristiansen »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2019, 10:03:26 am »

https://m.dpreview.com/news/2674382746/leica-announces-new-apo-sumicron-sl-35mm-f2-asph-l-mount-lens?utm_source=self-mobile&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

And the Nikon 35mm f1.8 S is bulky/heavy/expensive...  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

$4500 for a 750g f2 35mm lens. Can’t see me ever getting a R.O.I. With that piece of kit.
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Peter_DL

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2019, 12:17:48 pm »

... I just found it literally minutes ago while playing with a shot.
Here is a quick view. I do have multiple bracketed shots of this but if I wanted to get it done in one shot I have banding.

Indeed, the banding is clearly visible in this "simple" real world example.

Jim Kasson's last word reads somewhat sarcastic in this context (point #7).

--
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armand

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2019, 01:50:11 pm »

Indeed, the banding is clearly visible in this "simple" real world example.

Jim Kasson's last word reads somewhat sarcastic in this context (point #7).

--

It's an example of "real world" occurrence. I wasn't planning to obtain it and I didn't think that Z7 will be able to deal with this scene in a single exposure so I took multiple bracketed shots. I did want to try if it's possible though to use a single shot because it was very windy and that poses a significant challenge in using multiple shots for blending. The exposure times were longish a base ISO too.

PS. "simple" ? what do you mean? I have a wild guess but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

Christopher

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2019, 02:10:48 pm »

I don’t get how they can overlook such a flaw. Horrible, but that goes for all manufacturers...


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