Poll

What's your choice among the profusion of mirrorless systems (own or consider)

Sony (FE) - I like my frame full and my system complete?
- 31 (25%)
Fuji - Really good APS-C has plenty of pixels, and oh, those lenses?
- 28 (22.6%)
Nikon - two great bodies and five light, sharp lenses are a GREAT start?
- 17 (13.7%)
Micro 43 - I like my cameras light, fast or video-centric?
- 19 (15.3%)
Canon (EF-R) - I like my lenses FAST and my adapters with extra features?
- 8 (6.5%)
Fuji GFX - full frame is still a small sensor?
- 11 (8.9%)
Panasonic/Leica - anything with Leica lenses is worth the weight and cost?
- 8 (6.5%)
Something else - Sony APS-C(only - vote Sony if you also have FE) EOS-M? Nikon 1?
- 2 (1.6%)

Total Members Voted: 92


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Author Topic: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?  (Read 1492 times)

Kirk_C

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2019, 05:31:33 PM »

Both Sony and Nikon are offering cash rebates and trade in offers for the next few weeks. I'll be buying an A9 and an an A7RIII as soon as my trade ins get to the retailer. The range of adapters that offer full compatibility for the Sony with legacy lenses of several brands made Sony the best option for me.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 06:35:37 PM by Kirk_C »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2019, 09:06:16 PM »

Sony comes out as the clear FF winner, no surprise here.

The big surprise is Canon.

Based on the common assumption that their marketshare is twice that of Nikon, you would expect twice more votes in favor of the R assuming that the Z and R are most appealing to existing brand owners.

What we see now is 10 for Z and 4 for Canon, which would indicate that the R is 5 times less appealing that it should be...

Cheers,
Bernard

faberryman

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2019, 09:23:15 PM »

Sony comes out as the clear FF winner, no surprise here.

The big surprise is Canon.

Based on the common assumption that their marketshare is twice that of Nikon, you would expect twice more votes in favor of the R assuming that the Z and R are most appealing to existing brand owners.

What we see now is 10 for Z and 4 for Canon, which would indicate that the R is 5 times less appealing that it should be...

Cheers,
Bernard
the 65 people who voted on a LuLa poll probably are not representative of photographers in general. You would get a much different result on a wedding photography website.

Kirk_C

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2019, 10:31:24 PM »


What we see now is 10 for Z and 4 for Canon, which would indicate that the R is 5 times less appealing that it should be...

You're seriously going to try and draw any conclusion from the handful of people who bothered to participate in this survey ?


the 65 people who voted on a LuLa poll probably are not representative of photographers in general. You would get a much different result on a wedding photography website.

Exactly my thoughts !
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2019, 11:36:59 PM »

You're seriously going to try and draw any conclusion from the handful of people who bothered to participate in this survey ?

I believe that the LL crowd is pretty representative for FF 35mm cameras yes. A lot more than what you would get with a site dedicated to a single type of photography.

And anyway, this trend is pretty much the same we see in other data points.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 11:48:18 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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Christopher

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2019, 01:54:10 AM »

Actually itís not. We are to dedicated to perfection. When I talk to some friends, who own a big camera shop (consumer) and a rent shop for professionals the picture is quite different even if I really donít get why.

They are selling more Rs than Zs, but not by far. More surprising is that rent is something like 3:1. a lot of People want to rent the R but nearly nobody the Z. This is the same as was with the 5Dsr vs the d850....


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ErikKaffehr

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2019, 05:57:59 AM »

Hi,

Not voting as I don't like the formulation.

In my view the new Panasonic may have great promise. I don't care about Leica stuff, but it seems a solid and well designed system. Having access to the Sigma lens program would be great.

Some question marks about the sensors, though:

  • Phase detection on sensor?
  • SNR, DR etc.

With Fujifilm, I would find the GFX line attractive, not excited by APS-C.

Canon R is interesting, but I want to see a better sensor from Canon. Canon's lack of in body image stabilisation is boring.

Nikon may have great promise, but I never had a Nikon.

I have Sony A7rII and I can live with it. Using Canon mount lenses. I am not a person who switches systems. Rather spend on travel than selling fully working stuff to get new stuff with near zero benefits.

Best regards
Erik
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davidgp

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2019, 06:16:33 AM »

Hi,

Not voting as I don't like the formulation.

In my view the new Panasonic may have great promise. I don't care about Leica stuff, but it seems a solid and well designed system. Having access to the Sigma lens program would be great.

Some question marks about the sensors, though:

  • Phase detection on sensor?
  • SNR, DR etc.


Panasonic has no Phase Detection on sensor... as in the case of the GH5 and G9 they are relying on Contrast-Detect AF + AI algorithms.

Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2019, 09:01:44 AM »

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hogloff

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2019, 09:19:23 AM »

Sony comes out as the clear FF winner, no surprise here.

The big surprise is Canon.

Based on the common assumption that their marketshare is twice that of Nikon, you would expect twice more votes in favor of the R assuming that the Z and R are most appealing to existing brand owners.

What we see now is 10 for Z and 4 for Canon, which would indicate that the R is 5 times less appealing that it should be...

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, always one to make it a race between Canon and Nikon. Give it a year and then see where things are. Looks to me Canon is quite serious with their mirrorless system given the lenses they just announced.
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shalimarphoto

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2019, 09:58:22 AM »

I bought a Z 6 last month because I need a smaller camera/lens set to travel with.  Z 6 is the perfect size for me.  Also got the adapter for my existing set of Nikkor lenses.  I did not need the Z 7 as I don't print big enough to need all those pixels.  I'm looking forward to seeing the new Z lens lineup.

Alan - do you find that the Z6 is bulky/heavy with the adaptor plus lens? I'm currently using a Sony a7iii and I love it because it's so light. (using it for video.) But it'd also be nice to use my Nikon lenses - but my D4S is way too heavy for me for video.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2019, 10:45:29 AM »

Alan - do you find that the Z6 is bulky/heavy with the adaptor plus lens? I'm currently using a Sony a7iii and I love it because it's so light. (using it for video.) But it'd also be nice to use my Nikon lenses - but my D4S is way too heavy for me for video.
I have not used the adapter yet, only the 24-70 zoom.  The one key lens that I currently would need it for is the 60mm macro that I use a lot for flower photography.  Since there are no flowers here in my part of the country it has not yet been used.  The adaptor is pretty light and also has a tripod socket on it so that the camera socket is not taking all the weight. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2019, 09:11:08 PM »

Bernard, always one to make it a race between Canon and Nikon. Give it a year and then see where things are. Looks to me Canon is quite serious with their mirrorless system given the lenses they just announced.

I am more than aware about the progress made by Sony and find that well deserved considering their remarkable transformational value. This was the first sentence of the post you quoted, that in my world, is the most important one.

This being said, I do indeed find that the marketshare between Canon and Nikon is important because I would like to see more cash flow fuel the innovation at Nikon rather than the me-too approach adopted by Canon these past 10 years.

Cheers,
Bernard

armand

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2019, 04:39:43 PM »

Alan - do you find that the Z6 is bulky/heavy with the adaptor plus lens? I'm currently using a Sony a7iii and I love it because it's so light. (using it for video.) But it'd also be nice to use my Nikon lenses - but my D4S is way too heavy for me for video.

Depends on the lens. The adapter doesn't add much weight but shifts the balance. I used it a little with the 70-200 F4 and it's ok but I'm not sure I would use a larger lens. With a Rokinon/Samyang 14 F2.8 or the Nikon 24 F1.8 it's just fine.

armand

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2019, 04:44:44 PM »

The question for me has now become one of going from 36MP down to 24 or up to 45. Oh, and the second question is where the money is coming from, in particular, if I go to the Z7. Anyone want to buy a kidney?

I went from 24MP to 46MP and honestly it's too much. I mean it's nice to have the detail and all but for the sizes I tend to print (which I do less anyway), up to 17x22 unless it's a pano, it's unlikely that I need all those pixels.
Now in your case, if you got used to having 36MP I would be tempted go up to 46MP if the cost is not a big issue. I recall you used to have a D700 though, so 24MP doesn't sound that bad after all.

ericbowles

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2019, 08:08:41 AM »

I'm pretty well locked into the Nikon system, so the choices for me are the Z7 or Z6.  At this point it's a toe in the water for mirrorless because I'm not planning to make wholesale changes to my existing F-mount lenses.  So I picked up a Z6 in late November and probably have 4000 frames with the Z6 and various combinations.

I would have chosen the Z7, but I already have the D850 providing a high resolution camera.  What I really needed was a full frame medium sized sensor.  The cameras are quite similar in other respects, and the Z6 makes a great camerae for events, travel, golf, and many types of wildlife photography.

Image wise, the kit 24-70 f/4 lens is solid and is as good or better than my 24-70 f/2.8 AF-S lens for the F-mount.  I've used the FTZ adapter with all types of lenses from the 14-24 f/2.8 to the 300mm f/4 AF-S with teleconverter or the 600 f/4 AFS VR.  The FTZ involves minimal weight, a small space in my bag, and provides image quality and AF performance equal to the lens on a DSLR.

There are a few things tht are unique to mirrorless right now.  The EVF is like a heads up display.  I wear reading glasses and hated using LiveView because I had to put on glasses, then take them off to use the viewfinder.  The EVF allows full menu access through the viewfinder.  I've programmed function keys to provide zooming either to 50% or 100% through the viewfinder.  This allows me to check focus or manually adjust focus before the shot, or check the image after the shot.  I've used this function as electronic binoculars leading a bird walk and capturing record shots I could not get with a DSLR.  The silent shutter is perfect for golf, and allows me to capture images during the golf swing that would otherwise get me ejected from the event.  Focus peaking through the viewfinder allows precise manual lenses for some older lenses - some dating back to the 1970's. 

There are lots of internet myths.  The AF performance of the Z6 is equal to a Nikon D810 or D7200.  Only the newest DSLR cameras with a separate AF processor have better AF performance for birds in flight or action.  The Z6/7 has better and more precise focus for everything that does not involve flight or action.  The difference is that AF funcitons that seem similar have changed.  So some internet clickbaiter who has never learned to use the new Z's AF system, never read a manual, and using the wrong settings for the shot is claiming that AF does not work. 

The Z cameras are similar, but have important differences.  There is a steeper learning curve than any prior Nikon DSLR since the first models.  I'm heading on a trip in a few days, and the Z6 is my second camera - paired with the D850.  I could easily use the Z6/7 for almost everything I shoot without limitation for professional work.
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Kirk_C

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2019, 04:37:25 PM »

 I needed to buy another body last week because I have 2 studio set ups that are in lock down. Camera's cant' be moved or set changed while my client's are approving images and they're willing to pay for that privilege. However I needed to shoot and didn't want to rent because it's a long term project that's just beginning.

I bought a new 5DIV and another 70-200 EF 2.8 IS II and it was very satisfying. Familiar in every respect so I'm thinking about the images and not the camera. AF is fast and flawless, lens is tack sharp, color needs little or no post and 30 MP is plenty. Out the door for $4K as well. Some days it's hard to improve on what works and clients like.

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vulture

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Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #37 on: Today at 04:33:40 AM »

As I do mainly wildlife video the Pana GH 5/Pana-Leica Elmar 100-400 is actually the ideal tool for me. Glass is superb and AF improved dramatically against GH 4. (O.K. after you learned fiddling with the AF menu) The only step up I am waiting for would be a global shutter.
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