Poll

What's your choice among the profusion of mirrorless systems (own or consider)

Sony (FE) - I like my frame full and my system complete?
- 55 (24.6%)
Fuji - Really good APS-C has plenty of pixels, and oh, those lenses?
- 45 (20.1%)
Nikon - two great bodies and five light, sharp lenses are a GREAT start?
- 33 (14.7%)
Micro 43 - I like my cameras light, fast or video-centric?
- 27 (12.1%)
Canon (EF-R) - I like my lenses FAST and my adapters with extra features?
- 15 (6.7%)
Fuji GFX - full frame is still a small sensor?
- 26 (11.6%)
Panasonic/Leica - anything with Leica lenses is worth the weight and cost?
- 14 (6.3%)
Something else - Sony APS-C(only - vote Sony if you also have FE) EOS-M? Nikon 1?
- 9 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 165


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?  (Read 14577 times)

Peter_DL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 544
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2019, 03:01:13 pm »

It's an example of "real world" occurrence. I wasn't planning to obtain it and I didn't think that Z7 will be able to deal with this scene in a single exposure so I took multiple bracketed shots. I did want to try if it's possible though to use a single shot because it was very windy and that poses a significant challenge in using multiple shots for blending. The exposure times were longish a base ISO too.

PS. "simple" ? what do you mean? I have a wild guess but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

Shooting against the sunset sun at an exposure where essentially only the circle of the sun is burned out, should definitively allow to pull out the shadow details in post-processing – with the DR of today's sensors. It would be different (not "simple") if the exposure were reduced drastically to an extend that the sun stays yellow/red (unless the atmospheric conditions are hazy).
At least that's my experience.

Peter
--
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2019, 09:02:38 pm »

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2703346587/cp-2019-nikon-z7-eye-af-side-by-side-with-sony-a7r-iii

This pretty much matches my own impressions after having tried the Z eye AF last Friday in Yokohama.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2019, 08:55:06 am »

In case someone is looking for a second hand Canon 50mm f1.2 R, there are currently 12 at Map camera in Tokyo.

Nikon users are less lucky, there is only one 50mm f1.8 S...

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2019, 11:59:51 am »

I can not vote on this.

I have a Sony A7rII with a Sony A7II as a back up. Most of my lenses are Canon mount. The stuff I have is perfectly good for me, so I don't feel any urge to upgrade.

As I like Canon lenses, I may switch to Canon over time.

I mostly see the camera as an imaging device, lenses are more important.

Best regards
Erik
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2019, 05:04:22 pm »

Canon, Sony and Nikon have chosen very different strategies for mirrorless lenses:
- Sony: try to mimic DSLR line ups without the exotics (T/S, wide range of super teles, macros,...). Overall very good optically but some feel a bit middle of the road relative to the Canon/Nikon upcoming line up. Yet they are available today as we speak and not on a vague roadmap
- Canon: go for landmark impulsive buy lenses attempting to be very luminous (f1.2 primes, f2.0 zooms) without being too super bulky. Very good optically but probably not as good as could have been with more bulk,
- Nikon: two lines of lenses. 1. pretty compact and affordable f1.8 primes/f4 zooms but still very good optically, 2. Cost/bulk no object f1.2 primes/f2.8 zooms without any optical quality compromise.

Overall many great options, all these lenses are amazing relative to real wold needs and typically superior to DSLR lenses they replace that have been used successfully by the best photographers in the world.

A Nikon Z body gives you access to both Sony and Nikon lenses, Sony has a wide range of third party lenses, as of now Canon R keeps you locked with Canon R lenses and it will most probably stay that may forever.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:20:42 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Christopher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1499
    • http://www.hauser-photoart.com
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2019, 05:32:50 pm »

Actually Sony is able to make some of the best lenses out there. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/03/sony-fe-135mm-f1-8-gm-early-mtf-results/

Great to see things going forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Christopher Hauser
[email=chris@hauser-p

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2019, 06:50:33 pm »

Actually Sony is able to make some of the best lenses out there. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/03/sony-fe-135mm-f1-8-gm-early-mtf-results/

Yes, some are great.

A 135mm f1.8 is argably much easier to design than other more ambitious designs, but still, a great lens.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1192
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2019, 06:56:44 pm »

Actually Sony is able to make some of the best lenses out there. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/03/sony-fe-135mm-f1-8-gm-early-mtf-results/

Great to see things going forward.


Sent from my iP hone using Tapatalk

You can throw lenses like the 24 1.4 and the 400 2.8 into the same mix.
Logged

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1192
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2019, 06:58:38 pm »

Yes, some are great.

A 135mm f1.8 is argably much easier to design than other more ambitious designs, but still, a great lens.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sure, maybe easy to design...but it's still kicking butt of the other 135 1.8 that are easy to design. Kicking both in over size / weight and image quality. Read what lens rental had to say...best lens they ever tested...
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2019, 07:40:24 pm »

Sure, maybe easy to design...but it's still kicking butt of the other 135 1.8 that are easy to design. Kicking both in over size / weight and image quality. Read what lens rental had to say...best lens they ever tested...

Yes, indeed. But Nikon's 135mm is 20+ years old and Canon's about 15... ;)

The only other recent 135mm I am aware of is the Zeiss 135mm f2.0 and and it is very close to the Sony although it is 6 years old.

Anyway, I totally agree that there are some great lenses in the Sony line up.

Cheers,
Bernard

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2019, 07:53:55 pm »

Yes, indeed. But Nikon's 135mm is 20+ years old and Canon's about 15... ;)
So you saying they basically don't care?
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2019, 08:02:58 pm »

So you saying they basically don't care?

I think that they should care because I love this focal length (and love my voigtlander 125mm f2.5 APO), but the facts clearly tell that 135 hasn't been a priority for them.

The fact also is that the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 E FL is best at 135mm and pretty outstanding, which may be the reason why they haven't renewed this lens in a long time.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1192
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2019, 08:08:46 pm »

I think that they should care because I love this focal length (and love my voigtlander 125mm f2.5 APO), but the facts clearly tell that 135 hasn't been a priority for them.

The fact also is that the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 E FL is best at 135mm and pretty outstanding, which may be the reason why they haven't renewed this lens in a long time.

Cheers,
Bernard

2.8 versus 1.8 for portraits makes a big difference.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2019, 08:14:30 pm »

2.8 versus 1.8 for portraits makes a big difference.

Many people would argue that f2.8 at 135mm already results in a DoF that is too shallow for portraiture, but I won't.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
    • Martin Kristiansen
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2019, 01:46:52 pm »

I think this is still relevant on this thread.

Had a good look at a friends Z6 before it was sold off. It went for a good price but it didn’t really tempt me.

The new firmware for the Sony A9 and A7 iii and riii tempted me. I have changed a whole lot of things with my camera system.

Sold off all my APSC cameras and 4 prime lenses. I had a 6300 and 6500. Also sold the A7RII. Bought an A9 and an A7Riii. I have 28mm 55mm and 90mm Sony primes for the two bodies. Also 16 to 35, 24 to 70 and 70 to 200 Sony f4 zooms. Pretty much covers my personal and commercial needs. At some point I will buy a zoo in the 100 to 400 range. It’s not a biggie for me and is a rarely used focal length so I’m waiting for a deal or for Tamron or Sigma to release something more reasonably priced.

As things settle down I find Sony still the best for me as a complete system than I can earn a living from. Only had the A9 a few days and I really like it. A7Riii arrives tomorrow.
Logged
Commercial photography is 10% inspiration and 90% moving furniture around.

bdickers

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2019, 10:49:47 pm »

My Sony 6400.
Logged

Martin Kristiansen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
    • Martin Kristiansen
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2019, 11:29:55 pm »

My Sony 6400.

I can understand that. Wasn’t easy letting the APSC bodies go. I was very fond of them and the 6400 sounds fantastic.
Logged
Commercial photography is 10% inspiration and 90% moving furniture around.

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2451
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2019, 12:07:12 pm »

Mirrorless war? What war? For this photographer there was no war, not even a skirmish, or for that matter much of a choice.

I’d been working with a Leica M system for six years but eyesight problems meant I was increasingly missing focus. As much as I loved using the system it had become obvious that the problem was only going to get worse, I needed change.

I needed, wanted, a high resolution full frame mirrorless system with compact, lightweight bodies and compact, lightweight and fast AF lenses. My search was complicated by what I admit was a somewhat irrational but nevertheless deal-breaking dislike of Sony mirrorless cameras.

So what else was out there? Canon, with those fabulous fast lenses the size of, well, cannon, the Panasonic  S1R with her unfortunate weight problem and the Leica SL with bloated native lenses and price point to match. So…Nikon it was.

The Z7 is similar in size and weight to my Leica M bodies and the native primes although a little larger are decidedly svelte for full frame AF lenses. Most importantly they won’t frighten the natives.

My needs are modest. So far I have the excellent Z 50mm f1.8 S, simply the best all-around ‘standard’ I’ve used and I’m about to take the Z 35mm 1.8 S for a walk. The Z 14-30mm S is a lens I’m keen to try but with the Z 20mm f1.8 S on the horizon I’m keeping my options open. I’m looking forward to and have high expectations of the Z 85mm f1.8 S which is due later this year. That, apart from the possibility of adapting one or two characterful Leica M fit lenses, would be it.

Comparisons between Leica M and Nikon Z7, well they’re very different, but only one meets my needs.

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2019, 12:20:09 pm »

My needs are modest. So far I have the excellent Z 50mm f1.8 S, simply the best all-around ‘standard’ I’ve used and I’m about to take the Z 35mm 1.8 S for a walk. The Z 14-30mm S is a lens I’m keen to try but with the Z 20mm f1.8 S on the horizon I’m keeping my options open. I’m looking forward to and have high expectations of the Z 85mm f1.8 S which is due later this year. That, apart from the possibility of adapting one or two characterful Leica M fit lenses, would be it.
Except for the irrational veer away from Sony, this is a head on your shoulders need-based analysis that makes a lot of sense. I'd still wait to see Sony's next offering while Nikon's lens lineup comes to fruition.
Logged

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
Re: What system do you prefer, now that everything's out?
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2019, 04:22:47 pm »

I can think of at least three rational reasons to prefer Nikon to Sony (as well as some to prefer Sony to Nikon).

Nikon>Sony:
Build quality, durability, sealing: Both Imaging-Resource and Roger Cicala (LensRentals) have looked closely at sealing and build, and both say that the Z-series is built like a D850, just as Nikon says it is. The A7r III and below are notorious for lesser weather resistance and build, and both Roger Cicala's teardowns and IR's "get it wet" test bear this out.

Neither seems to have tested an A9, so that might or might not be different. Some reviews say "it's built like an A7r III", while others say "this is different" - in both cases without getting inside, so who knows. The fact that the weight differs by only 16 grams between the A7r III and the A9 suggests that the builds might be very similar - but that 16 grams could all be gaskets...

Interface: In my eyes, Fuji and Nikon have the best user interfaces in the business, and Sony has the worst. This is, of course, entirely personal (for example, I struggle when someone hands me a Canon, but that's almost certainly because I haven't used very many of them). Just from reviews I read and comments on here, it seems like my opinion is relatively common - Nikons tend to be praised for their interface, Fujis are highly praised - except for a minority of reviewers who hate them - while Sonys are often criticized.

Sensor (right now, and only the Z7): The A7III and Z6 appear to be using exactly the same sensor, while the A7rIII and Z7 are using closely related sensors. The Nikon Sauce on the Z7 sensor seems to have some minor advantages, and one more significant one (ISO 64).

Sony>Nikon
Body lineup: Nikon offers a choice of a good general purpose full-frame body or the present King of the Pixel Monsters. Sony offers a general purpose FF body and a pixel monster plus a dedicated sports body, a video-centric body (albeit a bit dated right now - but they'll replace it soon), a bunch of less expensive prior-generation bodies and some (not always sensibly positioned) APS-C bodies. If you count Nikon F and Z together, they offer all the same choices as Sony except a video-centric body, but you can't use Z lenses on an F body.

Battery Life: The newer "big-battery" Sonys will outlast pretty much every other mirrorless on the market, although the older "small-battery" models are among the worst.

Take your Pick
System Depth (other than bodies): Nikon has an advantage in flashes, remotes and other things where the Z system takes F-mount accessories (although modern Sony compatibility is also pretty darn good). Any light that offers TTL at all, for example, will offer "modern Nikon" as a choice. Sony is often also available, but may not be as standard in rentals, and some exotica may come in Canon or Nikon only.

The most important system depth question is, of course, lenses - and either one could win, depending on how you count. If you count only native, non-adapted lenses, it's Sony by a mile (with a note that Nikon is rolling out lenses as fast as they can, and making generally sensible choices).

If you count native lenses plus fully functional adapted lenses with a fast, reliuable same-brand adapter, Nikon wins. The Sony FE system is pretty decent, but 60 years of Nikkors is a lot to choose from - from 6mm to 1200-1700mm, plus tilt-shift lenses and oddities like microscope adapters.

 If you include lenses on (possibly slower or glitchier) third-party adapters, it's Sony again, although I suspect all the adapter manufacturers are working on Z-mount versions of their FE adapters (there's no reason why any of them wouldn't work).
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up