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Author Topic: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?  (Read 2353 times)

kevs

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What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« on: December 11, 2018, 03:13:56 pm »

I'm rip Van Winkle.  Don't pay attention to much about gear. But as a old time Nikon film camera user who switched over to Canon digital 12 years ago, as Nikon was so behind with full frame, what is going on? This 850 is like a full 3-4 year cycle ahead of the MarkD series?  45 mb over the 30 mb mark 4, etc etc.

I'm still on Mark 2.. but is anyone going back to Nikon who came from Nikon?

Really Canon should make the mark 5 kill everything: be best in video (over sony/ panasonic), be best pixel count -- 75 mb.. etc etc.. What up the Canon?  I'll pay a bit more.

Finally what up with wifi in cameras? Only goes to a smartphones? It can't cut the tether cord to a computer yet? Is that coming down the pike?  Thanks.
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Telecaster

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 04:03:46 pm »

I'm rip Van Winkle.  Don't pay attention to much about gear.

That's a good approach. No need to change it IMO.

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Finally what up with wifi in cameras? Only goes to a smartphones? It can't cut the tether cord to a computer yet? Is that coming down the pike?

Zeiss, of all companies, has a camera—the ZX1—in the works that (apparently) addresses this. Fixed lens, though. In this regard the other makers all seem to be asleep.

-Dave-
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Rhossydd

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 04:52:54 pm »

But as a old time Nikon film camera user who switched over to Canon digital 12 years ago, as Nikon was so behind with full frame, what is going on?
Nothing really, they're still market leaders for FFS cameras.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-continues-to-outsell-everyone-in-the-full-frame-segment-according-to-bcn/
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Don't pay attention to much about gear.
Very sensible. Most of the noise about Canon's supposed demise seems to come from gear freaks whose only interest is in specification. <yawn>
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 04:59:05 pm »

Thanks guys, yeah, just buy the camera and shoot, don't obsess with next model, but still, you don't think odd that Canon would allow Nikon to have the leading reviewed top Full frame camera. It does seem Nikon is now 3 years ahead of Canon, no?  (file size at least)

And video, I don't even shoot, but still why would Canon allow Panasonic to take  over?

And is up with Wifi? Sounds like great idea, tethering unrecorded.
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Rhossydd

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 06:16:57 pm »

you don't think odd that Canon would allow Nikon to have the leading reviewed top Full frame camera. It does seem Nikon is now 3 years ahead of Canon, no?
If you've any significant investment in glass and accessories, you'll stick with your manufacturer, unless all you care about is spec numbers.

Would a Nikon 850 be worth upgrading to from a 5Div if it was going to cost £15k once you've swapped whole systems ? How much of a difference in final prints would you see anyway ?
Sure for a few niche uses it might just be worth the expense, or if you have shed loads of spare cash, but most of us can just get on without having to have the absolute best numbers and keep the cash for going to places to photograph.

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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 09:24:03 pm »

 Thanks Rhoss good post.

But are you surprised than Nikon has taken the lead of best digital SLR?
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BJL

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Re: What happened to Canon ...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 09:26:35 pm »

Firstly, though Canon seems out of favor amongst forum pundits, it is by all measures I have seen still the most successful maker of interchangeable lens digital still cameras. Maybe lens systems weigh more than sensor differences and such for many photographers.

On the video side, Panasonic (like Sony) has long been a major player in video; it is not an upstart suddenly surpassing Canon in that sector. In fact, digital camera technology probably has more in common with video cameras than still film cameras—especially now with EVF cameras on the rise—so I am not surprised at Panasonic and Sony doing well.
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 09:32:55 pm »

Thanks B, good points.
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Rhossydd

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 04:35:08 am »

But are you surprised than Nikon has taken the lead of best digital SLR?
'Best' is just a subjective assessment. The differences between the top end DSLRs are really pretty subtle, what's 'best' for one application isn't the 'best' for another.

If all my kit was stolen, I'd still buy another Canon system, the 5Div is 'best' for me right now and the foreseeable future.
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Dan Wells

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 11:21:51 am »

At least a big part of what's going on isn't actually Nikon's doing, but Sony's sensor division (which benefits Nikon, Fuji, etc. as well as Sony's own camera division). Sony is well ahead of anybody else in the manufacture of large CMOS image sensors (anything bigger than a phone sensor is "large"), and they sell those sensors to whomever asks. Those asking include essentially the entire camera market not named "Canon" (there are weird exceptions like some Leicas).

Sony-sensor cameras have a large dynamic range/noise advantage over Canon-sensor (and the rare other options) cameras. Within Sony sensors, the choice between Sony themselves, Nikon, Fuji and the smaller players comes down to lenses, familiarity and compatibility with what you already have. Given similar sensor size and pixel count, image quality is going to be very similar with a similar lens. Sometimes, even sensor size doesn't matter that much - Fuji, with their beautiful APS-C lenses, has come surprisingly close to the image quality of 24 MP full-frame cameras.

Canon's obvious choice is to keep making great bodies and lenses, but buy their sensors from Sony... So far, they've been too proud to do it - but there are consistent rumors that they might.
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 02:37:37 pm »

Dan, interesting post.

Canon, billion dollar company, and been working on digital photography 15 years before it exploded...(way ahead of the curve), How can they be behind Sony in sensors..???

(so that is why Nikon flagship DLRs is now several year cycle ahead of Canon?)
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faberryman

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 03:54:40 pm »

Dan, interesting post.

Canon, billion dollar company, and been working on digital photography 15 years before it exploded...(way ahead of the curve), How can they be behind Sony in sensors..???

(so that is why Nikon flagship DLRs is now several year cycle ahead of Canon?)
Yet Canon appears to have the larger market share. Tough to figure. Must be either lens selection or an entrenched user base.

Rhossydd

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 05:17:30 pm »

Yet Canon appears to have the larger market share. Tough to figure. Must be either lens selection or an entrenched user base.
The other factor is that they might just be getting the whole feature set and usability right.
There's more to a camera than just the sensor. It's not just about numbers.
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 08:40:30 pm »

But my question was not that, is was, "How can they be behind Sony in sensors?"

Actually they have the 50 mb in a dlsr, and should have put that in the Mark 4, no? Then they would be considered ahead of the curve.

I would doubt their sensors are not as good as Sony's. 

Does Nikon really buy their sensors from Sony?

Similar question on video. They pioneered video in a dlsr. How could they then let Panasonic be perceived as superior in video for dlsrs?
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BAB

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 08:41:15 pm »

I think Nikon shot their wad hang on for the big C to release a pro version the recently released Canon mirrorless was a bottom end solution.  Anyway neither one nikon or canon will effect your image they both can do the job. The bigger question is can you?
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 08:57:59 pm »

Thanks BAb, but that does not answer either of my question at all.
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BJL

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 10:11:49 pm »

Sony is bigger in electronics than Canon, has been making sensors for longer (going back to video camera stuff) and earns far more from them because it supplies so many other companies, across the range from phones to medium format. So it is not so surprising that it is for now a bit ahead of Canon—and mostly in one spec, dynamic range. If anything, it is surprising that Canon had a sensor technology lead for a while, and that was primarily due to one good decision to pursue CMOS sensors while most rivals were still focussed on CCDs.
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Kirk_C

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 10:28:41 pm »

But my question was not that, is was, "How can they be behind Sony in sensors?"

Actually they have the 50 mb in a dlsr, and should have put that in the Mark 4, no? Then they would be considered ahead of the curve.

I've been shooting in the L.A. area for over 30 years. In the big name studios and rental houses the most common headshot/portrait/fashion/catalog camera is a Canon of 24MP or less. The 1DX II is probably the most common. I know several guys who shoot product with a Canon 5DSr and deliver outstanding work. A popular rental camera as well for the 1DX II guys when they shoot larger set ups.

Lots of people working, all different styles, happy clients, nobody pixel peeping and geeking out about DR being a stop or 2 less than some other camera. They're working and getting what their client needs/wants/likes.

 
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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 10:33:04 pm »

thanks BLJ, Nikon is buying it's sensors from Sony, that is true?

thanks Kirk, I never get the 1DX II, why people buy that.

But good post, in that no one really cares, which is nice... about the image content.
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Rhossydd

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 05:25:40 am »

But my question was not that, is was, "How can they be behind Sony in sensors?"
Actually they have the 50 mb in a dlsr, and should have put that in the Mark 4, no? Then they would be considered ahead of the curve.
No, you're missing the point; It's not about numbers, who makes the sub-components or where some reviewers think of their position in the marketplace.
It's about; Is it a good camera that I want to buy ? Canon are getting that right.
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