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Author Topic: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?  (Read 1980 times)

Dan Wells

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2018, 06:41:42 pm »

They're behind on one curve, and it's one with an easy solution (buy publicly available Sony sensors), which they're too proud to do. If BJL is right, Canon may be close to coming up with sensors that do what the Sonys do. I haven't heard of a Canon with Sony-sensor DR yet, but they are a big organization with a lot of research focused on making great images - they are certainly capable of it.

 They also have a weird corporate structure where their Cinema EOS division gets to tell their still camera division "reduce video features to protect our products". Many of their competitors (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus) don't have pro video divisions to worry about (Fuji makes broadcast lenses, but not $5000-$10,000 video bodies) - and Sony and Panasonic have taken the attitude "if you get started making movies with our hybrid still cameras, maybe your next purchase will be our dedicated movie camera".  They're right up there on everything else - so much of the experience of photography today is whether your camera matches your needs and your tastes, and Canon is a great match for a lot of photographers.

Canons are excellent bodies with a remarkably broad lens range, especially in FF. The difference in sensor performance is only noticeable in certain kinds of photography, and then only if you use very broad tonal ranges or print very large...

I may not be a Canon shooter, but I have proudly printed on Canon for years (I have a Pro-2000 right now, and I love it). They're certainly capable of anything in imaging that they decide to do, and I suspect they have something up their sleeve in the EOS R line - you don't make two gorgeous exotic lenses like the 28-70mm f2 and the 50mm f1.2 for one midrange body...

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kevs

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2018, 07:40:20 pm »

Thanks Dan, what does DR mean?

Yes, staying with Canon, but I think they should just get their next Mark 5 to 50 mb pixels, match dynamic range,  and the video should match Panasonic GH5. Someone who buys the 5D series should not have to think, "hey should I also buy Panasonic for video". A friend who shoots a lot of video mentioned what you just said about their cinema dept.
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D Fuller

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2018, 07:49:12 pm »

Before you let the Sony/Nikon fans warp your perspective on the current mirrorless market, this actual direct comparison might provide some insights...

Mirrorless Camera Comparison: Canon R vs. Nikon Z7 vs. Sony A7R3

I watched this, and it is a really flawed review. I use two of these cameras (Nikon and Sony) and the video they show from both is too bad to be credible. (I donít know how they set them up, but if you were trying for worse possible picture theyíd be contenders.)

Also, the Nikon they used was not functioning properly, and they made no attempt to account for differences in exposure between the cameras.

My guess is that this is a review of what the cameras will do if put on fully auto, as they come out of the box, with no actual photographers involved.

If I havenít been clear, itís a worthless review.
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davidgp

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2018, 08:39:39 am »

Dan Wells

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2018, 06:41:02 pm »

DR=dynamic range

I think that the current Canon 50 MP sensor is a disappointment in a lot of ways - Canon's own most recent sensors have much better dynamic range than the 5Ds series. As an example, Photons to Photos shows the 30 MP 5D mkIV as having about an extra stop of low-iso dynamic range over the 50 MP 5Ds (and even the 5D mk IV is about a stop behind the best Sony/Nikon sensors). The 30 MP sensor in the 5D mk IV and EOS-R is probably Canon's best effort yet...

 Sony's next move is going to be a 60-61 MP sensor with 16-bit output if the rumor sites are right (if they actually need 16-bit output, that suggests that the upcoming sensor records at least some information over a range >14 stops). The extreme dynamic range of the current Sony sensors is between 13.5-14 stops (of which around 12 stops are really useful in an image) - pushing right at the limits of what a 14-bit output can handle. If they've squeezed an extra half stop out of it, 16-bit output makes a difference at base ISO.

Canon could either buy that sensor or develop something comparable themselves if they had an interest in competing in the "ultimate image quality at low ISO" part of the market. Alternatively, they could keep improving the 5D mk IV sensor, focusing on a great all-around image, rather than maximum resolution and dynamic range in very specific low-ISO conditions. They could leave that particular boxing match to Sony, Nikon and Fuji medium format, selling 24" and 44" printers to the owners of their competitors' cameras. If you don't own a big ol' printer, you don't need a 40-60 MP camera (and only Canon and Epson are serious players in big printers - with nobody else knocking at the door).


Dan
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hogloff

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2018, 07:58:02 pm »

They could leave that particular boxing match to Sony, Nikon and Fuji medium format, selling 24" and 44" printers to the owners of their competitors' cameras. If you don't own a big ol' printer, you don't need a 40-60 MP camera (and only Canon and Epson are serious players in big printers - with nobody else knocking at the door).


Dan

HP just released their new large format printers. If they are anything like their Z3100 / Z3200 printers...they will be fantastic. I've been using both a 24" and 44" Z3100 for over 8 years without any major issue producing some of the nicest prints I've ever seen. Your narrow view of available printers is biased to say the least.
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Dan Wells

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Re: What happened to Canon, Nikon has taken over?
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2018, 04:02:21 pm »

I have used a lot of HP CAD/GIS printers (and home/office printers), and I wish they maintained their photo lineup better.  The Z3200 sat on the market for a decade while their competitors made major strides, and I haven't yet seen anything that makes me believe the Z9+ isn't vaporware (like a review on Luminous, Northlight or any other photography site, or even experiences posted in the printing forum here). I'll believe Hp's back when I see some experiences from someone who's used one of the new ones...

The Z3200 is contemporary with the Canon iPF6100... Since then, Canon has upgraded to the iPF6300 (major upgrade), done a minor tweak to produce the iPF 6400, then a complete redesign to the Pro-2000. If the Z9+ makes it out of limited release, will it get updated, or orphaned? I have no question at all about HP's ability to make a great photo printer - but I do question their commitment to the market.
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