Capture One 12.0

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

How long can you leave it and still get the upgrade price?

That's a refinement on how much one could 'save'. It might change over time, from 1 version back, to more.
It's up to Phase One to figure out what they want to achieve (benefit frequent upgraders, or attract infrequent upgraders).

I for one, have found it worthwhile enough to upgrade each time (although version 11 was a bit borderline for me, besides speed improvements), others may have different valuations of specific upgraded functionality.
Version 12 however, especially the Luminance masking I've been asking for (and the elegantly tweakable implementation of it), is worth the upgrade price for me.

Thinking of how much I saved by not going subscription on Adobe products, makes it almost moot.
But that's a different subject for a different thread.

Cheers,
Bart

[narikin]

When I try to buy the upgrade on C1 website it flips me to an old dealer I no longer wish to use. How do I correct that?

Seems as I am logged in it has aligned me with a dealer I bought a back from many years ago.

I kind of object to this - even when I use 'Contact Us' I am flipped to that dealer, not Phase One itself.

[alan_b]

How long can you leave it and still get the upgrade price?

They started charging more for upgrading from older versions.  $169 from 10 -> 12.
9 -> 12 costs more.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

When I try to buy the upgrade on C1 website it flips me to an old dealer I no longer wish to use. How do I correct that?

Sounds like a 'cookie' issue in your browser. When typing in the URL for https://www.phaseone.com/, it should take you to their main site, where you can select the Capture One section from the menu (https://www.phaseone.com/en/Capture-One.aspx in my case).

If it doesn't work, try clearing the cookie for this site.

Cheers,
Bart

[narikin]

Thanks Bart, yes I just went into Chrome cookies and deleted that dealers cookie. That did it.
So nice of them to be putting such things on my main system!

[Jeremy Roussak]

No, it does not. Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?

It allows me to make several changes, then leap back and forth to see their effect en masse. I can't do that as easily if I have to undo one step at a time. I can undo and repeat a crop, for example. It may be that layers provide an alternative route. I can also see a list of the things I've done, perhaps so long ago that I've forgotten them.

I simply don't see a reason not to implement it: I can't imagine why it could be difficult, given that it's a parametric editor which therefore must maintain a list of steps internally.

I'm not suggesting that it's essential. It's simply something I use sufficiently in LR for me to be very reluctant to switch to C1.

Jeremy

[jeremyrh]

Version 12 however, especially the Luminance masking I've been asking for (and the elegantly tweakable implementation of it), is worth the upgrade price for me.

Same here. Plus the Z7 support. But I can't see myself upgrading to v13 unless it comes with a built-in coffee maker.

For the future it seems that there are many smaller fish nibbling away at the amateur market (RAW Power, Affinity) who will gradually win over more customers if the price of "Pro" software keeps spiralling.

[Rhossydd]

Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?

For me; It is a list that contains all the adjustments made to an image in one easy to access place. CO in particular has adjustments spread over multiple tabs and keeping track of what's been done is not simple.

[Martin Kristiansen]

I use LR and C1. Never used the history in LR so don’t miss it in C1. I think it’s got a lot to do with a thought process.  I look at am image and decide if it needs something, more or less co trust for example. I do that as I go along. I never go back to a previous state. I simply adjust what needs adjusting.

[myotis]

It allows me to make several changes, then leap back and forth to see their effect en masse. I can't do that as easily if I have to undo one step at a time. I can undo and repeat a crop, for example. It may be that layers provide an alternative route. I can also see a list of the things I've done, perhaps so long ago that I've forgotten them.

I know its not the same as a history, but its easy to clone a variant in C1 (single keystroke), change an aspect of the edit, clone again, make further changes, clone again make further changes etc  Compare all clones in a multi-view, delete the clones you don't like and continue editing on the remaining clone.

You could,  as you suggest use layers, and switch between them, but the cloning approach is actually really fast, and allows comparing multiple images at once rather than switching off and on layers, or indeed switching back and forth between places in the history.

I also often end up with saving clones as snapshots of key editing stages so its easy to back track if I need to. 

For very subtle editing where you might want to back track through multiple brush stokes, this is obviously not much use, but for what I think of as everyday editing, it seems to work well.

Cheers,

Graham

[TommyWeir]

Yes, the cloning approach is what I'd recommend.  A history palette would be a useful thing but the use case you outline would be arguably better served with clones, ability to compare side by side multiple options.

[john beardsworth]

No, it does not. Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?

1. It allows one to restore a previous look - eg when it was printed
2. It allows one to assess if one's edits improve the image compared to a previous state - eg when it was printed, exported, or when you added that clarity adjustment. So in LR you can go back to any previous editing point and set the Before side of a Before/After split screen, which is very useful when fine tuning. In C1 I think you'd have to create a variant and either use Undo or know the image settings.
3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session

[Rhossydd]

3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session

I think this is a really significant feature that makes so useful, one you quickly take for granted. You can just have a quick glance and see what's been done and move back or forward.

In LR we have similar functionality to variants with virtual copies and snapshots, but history is a well liked additional feature. I'm sure that if CO added it, users would embrace it and wonder why it was never added sooner.

[john beardsworth]

I think this is a really significant feature that makes so useful, one you quickly take for granted.

Yes, an Elephant in the Room? But also cross-session Undo is so unusual that we don't recognise it as such.

In LR we have similar functionality to variants with virtual copies and snapshots, but history is a well liked additional feature. I'm sure that if CO added it, users would embrace it and wonder why it was never added sooner.

At the very start I was sceptical as History seemed a bit of PhotoshopThink, but it quickly became a "What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us?" feature.

[E.J. Peiker]

In case anyone else experiences a problem running the upgrade on a Win 7 system:

I updated both my Win 10 system and my Win 7.1 system. No problems at all, totally smooth on Win 10. The update on the Win 7 system threw me into a momentary panic. The software installed and then asked if I wanted to open C1 v. 12 which I said yes to. Nothing happened. I double clicked on the desktop icon it created and the little wheel that indicates that the computer is thinking went round and round for a while and then nothing. I launched C1 v. 11 and it said that my license had been deactivated. Tried C1 v. 12 again and again nothing. $#!+

So then I rebooted the system and all worked fine. The C1 installer should have said to restart the system when it finished, at least on my system...

[nemtom]

For me; It is a list that contains all the adjustments made to an image in one easy to access place. CO in particular has adjustments spread over multiple tabs and keeping track of what's been done is not simple.

To solve that problem would require much less effort from us, developers, than to create a fully functional History panel, where you can go back to any steps in your edit (including different versions of masks, etc). And actually there is already a workaround solution to see what settings are changed. All you need to do is to go to the Adjustment Clipboard tool, and under the ... menu enable the Autoselect > Adjusted (by default the Adjusted without Composition is selected), and hit the 'Copy adjustments from the primary variant' button on the title bar. This will put a checkmark next to each properties  you have changed. The local adjustment layer changes will be squeezed though...

[myotis]

1. It allows one to restore a previous look - eg when it was printed
2. It allows one to assess if one's edits improve the image compared to a previous state - eg when it was printed, exported, or when you added that clarity adjustment. So in LR you can go back to any previous editing point and set the Before side of a Before/After split screen, which is very useful when fine tuning. In C1 I think you'd have to create a variant and either use Undo or know the image settings.
3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session

I think the key thing is how easy it is to get into a variant managed workflow in C1, its more accessible than LR snapshots and virtual copies, even though these are essentially the same thing.  F3 creates a cloned variant. Selecting multiple variants automatically sets them up in a multi variant view (I'm not sure what the upper limit of variants you can view at one time, but I haven't come against it yet). Scrolling and zooming are synched by holding down the shift key when performing an action. Variants can be removed by cmd click, and the whole operation is remarkable smooth, fast and intuitive.

You can also add some specific elements such as printing adjustments into a layer (as you suggest), and obviously any adjustments to a variant (and layers) is saved between session. Choosing the variant will show all its adjustments in the adjustment panels

I'm not saying that a history is of no value, because it is still useful, but because C1 seems designed around using a variant based approach, I suspect the loss of the history may not be as serious as many fear.   But, certainly I can't see any reason not to have the flexibility of having a history as well.

[Rhossydd]

I think the key thing is how easy it is to get into a variant managed workflow in C1, its more accessible than LR snapshots and virtual copies, even though these are essentially the same thing.

As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.

[faberryman]

As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.

Each has its advantages and disadvantages, and different photographers weigh those differently in deciding which program to use.

[Jeremy Roussak]

As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.

Another advantage of the history panel is that it's automatic. There's no need to create variants (I assume the C1 equivalent of LR's virtual copies); it just happens.

Jeremy