Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: R_Yosha on November 29, 2018, 07:16:43 am

Title: Capture One 12.0
Post by: R_Yosha on November 29, 2018, 07:16:43 am
Capture One 12.0 is officially announced.

Capture One 12 New Features Overview (https://youtu.be/RvfJxcxUfFo)

New Features

New interface
New Menu system
New Keyboard Shortcut Manager
Luma Range Masking
Linear Gradient Mask tool
Radial Gradient Mask tool
Plug-ins - Export and publish
User experience changes
Extended AppleScript support
Fujifilm Film Simulations
Camera support

 

Fujifilm
Fujifilm GFX 50R
Nikon

Nikon Z7
Nikon Z6
Canon

Canon EOS R
Canon EOS M50*
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rado on November 29, 2018, 07:42:34 am
Yup, about 20 minutes after I signed up for the beta program heh.

That said, luminosity masks - finally!
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: R_Yosha on November 29, 2018, 07:52:38 am
" luminosity masks - finally!" - yes, it's really cool feature, just like Refine Mask)
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Kevin Raber on November 29, 2018, 08:25:52 am
The whole experience with C1 v12 is just super nice.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 29, 2018, 08:35:23 am
Yup, about 20 minutes after I signed up for the beta program heh.

That said, luminosity masks - finally!

:):) HURRAY!  :):)

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Jeff on November 29, 2018, 09:02:52 am
The whole experience with C1 v12 is just super nice.
Perhaps not the " whole " experience.

The % increase in upgrade price appears to be rising exponentially each year   :(

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Paul Steunebrink on November 29, 2018, 09:03:51 am
Capture One Pro 12 offers two Gradient Mask tools, Luma Range masking, Plugins architecture and a new UI design. Upgrade is available from all previous versions.
I have a detailed review at the Image Alchemist - Capture One Pro 12 Review (https://imagealchemist.net/capture-one-pro-12-review).

Save 10% on full and upgrade licenses (5% on subscriptions) with code AMBALCHEMIST with this link (https://captureone.sjv.io/c/1303418/551650/8798). Please note that you have to enter the promotional code during checkout.

Or download Capture One 12 (all running modes) directly with this link (http://Download Capture One 12 (all running modes)).
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Mikenor2 on November 29, 2018, 09:15:00 am
Is there a way to globally change the engine to Capture One 12 in the Base Characteristics section for all photos in a catalog? The way I see it, it can only be done photo by photo...

Also, not seeing the X-T1 film profiles option that I had thought had been added for the RAW files. When I plug in Fujifilm X-T1 generic in the ICC Profile I only get 4 choices in the curve drop down.


I'm pretty new at Capture One - had purchased CO 11 only a month ago, so am sure the answers are right in front of my face...


Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Steve Gordon on November 29, 2018, 09:23:27 am
Yes, getting more expensive but some exciting features in this version. Luminosity based masking is a big step forward and 3rd party plugins will hopefully be the start of a new era in creativity, convenience and quality.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on November 29, 2018, 09:53:33 am
Some tools I will like. Obviously the masking improvements will be very welcome. I will be paying $125 to upgrade, using the Sony option. I won’t be buying any preset bundles.

I wonder what the keyboard shortcuts improvements is about. On my laptop I have used a few programmable shortcuts for my clients when shooting catalogue work. Helps them to name files and so on as we work. Clients like it.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: MikeBabiak on November 29, 2018, 10:00:45 am
Respectfully

   I am sure the upgrades are great however I hope that there are few out there who made the mistake that I did having bought a license one day ago for the now obsolete version 11.
Oh had I known I could have donated the money to a worthy cause.
Happy Holidays
Mike B
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Mikenor2 on November 29, 2018, 10:12:06 am
Hi Mike, if you bought 11 yesterday you are eligible for the free upgrade to 12. I believe it is a 30 day purchase windows of 11 for free upgrade to 12. I bought my license 2 weeks ago and just upgraded to 12 for free.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Doug Peterson on November 29, 2018, 11:07:31 am
I am sure the upgrades are great however I hope that there are few out there who made the mistake that I did having bought a license one day ago for the now obsolete version 11.
Oh had I known I could have donated the money to a worthy cause.

You're well within the grace period. Speak with the dealer from whom you purchased, or if you purchased via the phase one website you can start a support case there.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Doug Peterson on November 29, 2018, 11:08:08 am
Notably, Capture One Education Pricing (https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/product/capture-one-pro-education/) is available for students/instructors etc.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on November 29, 2018, 11:14:51 am
Perhaps not the " whole " experience.
The % increase in upgrade price appears to be rising exponentially each year   :(
Yes, a big increase 60%.
Frankly not a lot of interest added for me. Luma masking would be nice, but not worth paying two hundred quid for.

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Dave Rosser on November 29, 2018, 11:25:46 am
Is there a way to globally change the engine to Capture One 12 in the Base Characteristics section for all photos in a catalog? The way I see it, it can only be done photo by photo...

Also, not seeing the X-T1 film profiles option that I had thought had been added for the RAW files. When I plug in Fujifilm X-T1 generic in the ICC Profile I only get 4 choices in the curve drop down.


I'm pretty new at Capture One - had purchased CO 11 only a month ago, so am sure the answers are right in front of my face...


Thanks for the help!

Select/Select All
make sure the edit all variants thing top right of screen is selected (it will turn orange)
Image/upgrade engine

A far as X-T1 is concerned it is the same as my X-Pro1 in not being supported for the Fuji profiles.  >:(

Dave
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Dave Rosser on November 29, 2018, 11:28:39 am
Yes, a big increase 60%.
Frankly not a lot of interest added for me. Luma masking would be nice, but not worth paying two hundred quid for.
£150 for the upgrade (including VAT).  £135 if you use the code given earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on November 29, 2018, 11:40:08 am
I don’t know what the last upgrade cost, this is my first upgrade. For all the money I spend on random hopeful crap this seems pretty reasonable to me. I know I will get hours and hours of pleasure from it.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Mikenor2 on November 29, 2018, 11:41:40 am
Thanks Dave!
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on November 29, 2018, 11:51:10 am
£150 for the upgrade (including VAT).
Not here, I'm going from version 10. Last time rates stayed the same when upgrading two versions 8>10 etc, but that policy seems to have died.

Just too much for so little.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Dinarius on November 29, 2018, 11:57:43 am
I skipped C1 11 because I felt it was only marking time.

C1 12 is a serious response to Adobe's LR/PS €12/month package.

This C1 12 upgrade is a no-brainer, in my opinion.

Just downloaded it.

D.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: alan_b on November 29, 2018, 11:59:50 am
Upgrading for GFX and Z7 support.  Bitching because of the new upgrade pricing.

New masking features seem nice if not world-shattering.  New styles, meh.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on November 29, 2018, 12:01:15 pm
This C1 12 upgrade is a no-brainer, in my opinion.
What makes it so good for you over v10 ?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: R_Yosha on November 29, 2018, 12:40:23 pm
New User Guide for Capture One 12 and Capture Pilot
https://help.phaseone.com/en/CO12.aspx
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: lee469 on November 29, 2018, 02:02:20 pm
I will not be upgrading to vs12 on my PC, sessions only.  2016 upgrade 89us and 2017 upgrade 107 us. Now they want $149us after one year! That is a 40% increase in one year!
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 29, 2018, 02:29:38 pm
I will not be upgrading to vs12 on my PC, sessions only.  2016 upgrade 89us and 2017 upgrade 107 us. Now they want $149us after one year! That is a 40% increase in one year!

Hi,

By not upgrading each and every upgrade, you've saved money that others have to spend on subscriptions to keep full functionality of the licensed version in use. Not all new functions are valuable additions for all users. Only when the new functionalities are worthwhile to your workflow, you can consider upgrading.

In the meantime, you'll get a 3 computer license, compare to 2 licenses in the past. Again, not worthwhile for all, but it is for others.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: TommyWeir on November 29, 2018, 05:46:04 pm
I’ve been on the beta a while now and have thoroughly enjoyed the enhancement to masking and layers in particular.  The interface is also improved.   

That said...My six year old MBPro i7 struggles to update the preview in anything approaching real-time.  Has improved over the betas and likely will continue to improve but definitely slower than C11 at current stage.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: DP on November 29, 2018, 07:24:48 pm
The bug I reported in Beta still not fixed - selecting any films emulations as "curve" for Fuji camera(s) removes Lab/RGB readout displayed in Viewer’s toolbar...

PS: and now even it seems when you select curve = "auto" too...   :o
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Mike Guilbault on November 29, 2018, 08:37:49 pm
That said...My six year old MBPro i7 struggles to update the preview in anything approaching real-time.  Has improved over the betas and likely will continue to improve but definitely slower than C11 at current stage.

Well, looks like I'm going to have to wait on the upgrade until I upgrade my computer. I have an 11 year old MacPro that can't move up past OSX 10.11.6. Pity.. it still works beautifully, but not with the new C12.
I do have a promo code for Capture One though if anyone is upgrading or moving from Lightroom. Use AMBMIKE for a 10% discount on perpetual licenses, and I believe a 5% discount on subscription.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: farbschlurf on November 30, 2018, 02:37:23 am
Expensive, yes, but I thought why not. And I have to say 1st impression on luminosity masking is excellent. Seems to be a powerful tool. Whether it's worth it? I'll see ... But it's one more step towards an editing with little PS, for sure.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Dave Rosser on November 30, 2018, 05:00:14 am
The bug I reported in Beta still not fixed - selecting any films emulations as "curve" for Fuji camera(s) removes Lab/RGB readout displayed in Viewer’s toolbar...

PS: and now even it seems when you select curve = "auto" too...   :o
I was late spotting that one and put in a bug report the morning V12 was released.  I have put in an ordinary problem report on this, hopefully it will be addressed in v12.1.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: R_Yosha on November 30, 2018, 05:37:28 am
The gradient after Keystone tool is a trapezoid one and I cannot draw a straight gradient from the frame edge to the horizon. I reported on this bug. Will it be fixed?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: DP on November 30, 2018, 06:42:19 am
I was late spotting that one and put in a bug report the morning V12 was released.  I have put in an ordinary problem report on this, hopefully it will be addressed in v12.1.

unless it is not a bug but a feature... Fujifilm emulations looks like a patch with .P1X binary files with LUTs referenced by .fcrv files and .fcrv "auto" curve there apparently has a new bit flag not seen in similar files for other makes (that I have to check) apparently instructing to apply it as "luma" curve instead of "RGB" curve
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: DP on November 30, 2018, 06:45:01 am
And I have to say 1st impression on luminosity masking is excellent.
like a decade after LightZone and still nowhere near how all those things were done there
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: IanSeward on November 30, 2018, 09:20:55 am
What makes it so good for you over v10 ?

For me:
Layers now have Opacity. Styles & Presets work with layers, Colour Balance and Levels tools are also available for layers.  Filled layers or clear mask with one click. Feather and refine mask edge options as for PS. Grey scale mask preview. Ability to use Lab readouts.  Simple one button multi view UI change.  Duplicate checker on import. No separate local adjustments tool tab as virtually all tools work in layers.  Luminosity masking, able to copy mask to other photos, radial and linear gradients, intelligent adjustment copying (no crop), improved UI, plugin support.  Interested to see how the plugin support will develop.

Ian
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on November 30, 2018, 09:30:24 am
For me:
Layers now have Opacity. Styles & Presets work with layers, Colour Balance and Levels tools are also available for layers.  Filled layers or clear mask with one click. Feather and refine mask edge options as for PS. Grey scale mask preview. Ability to use Lab readouts.  Simple one button multi view UI change.  Duplicate checker on import. No separate local adjustments tool tab as virtually all tools work in layers.  Luminosity masking, able to copy mask to other photos, radial and linear gradients, intelligent adjustment copying (no crop), improved UI, plugin support.  Interested to see how the plugin support will develop.
Ta, even with the bits that have no interest for me crossed out, it sounds a lot better written like that ;-)
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on November 30, 2018, 01:42:29 pm
Does it have a history palette, like LR and PS?

Jeremy
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: nemtom on November 30, 2018, 02:43:41 pm
Does it have a history palette, like LR and PS?

Jeremy

No, it does not. Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: jeremyrh on November 30, 2018, 05:15:10 pm
Hi,

By not upgrading each and every upgrade, you've saved money that others have to spend on subscriptions to keep full functionality of the licensed version in use. Not all new functions are valuable additions for all users. Only when the new functionalities are worthwhile to your workflow, you can consider upgrading.


How long can you leave it and still get the upgrade price?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Isleofgough on November 30, 2018, 07:09:56 pm
I'm not sure what happened to their computer database in this version, but I upgraded with the 10% discount and was sent an invalid license. The order shows up as a fastspring order rather than their usual order. I submitted a ticket first thing today but they must have gone home for the weekend. This is the first time that an upgrade was not a smooth process.
I've also had a crash within 30 min of use, which is unusual for a program that has always been rock solid stable. Hopefully there will be a patch...
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 30, 2018, 07:55:05 pm
How long can you leave it and still get the upgrade price?

That's a refinement on how much one could 'save'. It might change over time, from 1 version back, to more.
It's up to Phase One to figure out what they want to achieve (benefit frequent upgraders, or attract infrequent upgraders).

I for one, have found it worthwhile enough to upgrade each time (although version 11 was a bit borderline for me, besides speed improvements), others may have different valuations of specific upgraded functionality.
Version 12 however, especially the Luminance masking I've been asking for (and the elegantly tweakable implementation of it), is worth the upgrade price for me.

Thinking of how much I saved by not going subscription on Adobe products, makes it almost moot.
But that's a different subject for a different thread.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: narikin on November 30, 2018, 08:26:21 pm
When I try to buy the upgrade on C1 website it flips me to an old dealer I no longer wish to use. How do I correct that?

Seems as I am logged in it has aligned me with a dealer I bought a back from many years ago.

I kind of object to this - even when I use 'Contact Us' I am flipped to that dealer, not Phase One itself.


Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: alan_b on November 30, 2018, 08:45:55 pm
How long can you leave it and still get the upgrade price?
They started charging more for upgrading from older versions.  $169 from 10 -> 12.
9 -> 12 costs more.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 30, 2018, 09:04:24 pm
When I try to buy the upgrade on C1 website it flips me to an old dealer I no longer wish to use. How do I correct that?

Sounds like a 'cookie' issue in your browser. When typing in the URL for https://www.phaseone.com/ (https://www.phaseone.com/), it should take you to their main site, where you can select the Capture One section from the menu (https://www.phaseone.com/en/Capture-One.aspx (https://www.phaseone.com/en/Capture-One.aspx) in my case).

If it doesn't work, try clearing the cookie for this site.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: narikin on November 30, 2018, 09:18:34 pm
Thanks Bart, yes I just went into Chrome cookies and deleted that dealers cookie. That did it.
So nice of them to be putting such things on my main system!

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on December 01, 2018, 04:01:16 am
No, it does not. Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?

It allows me to make several changes, then leap back and forth to see their effect en masse. I can't do that as easily if I have to undo one step at a time. I can undo and repeat a crop, for example. It may be that layers provide an alternative route. I can also see a list of the things I've done, perhaps so long ago that I've forgotten them.

I simply don't see a reason not to implement it: I can't imagine why it could be difficult, given that it's a parametric editor which therefore must maintain a list of steps internally.

I'm not suggesting that it's essential. It's simply something I use sufficiently in LR for me to be very reluctant to switch to C1.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: jeremyrh on December 01, 2018, 04:28:35 am

Version 12 however, especially the Luminance masking I've been asking for (and the elegantly tweakable implementation of it), is worth the upgrade price for me.

Same here. Plus the Z7 support. But I can't see myself upgrading to v13 unless it comes with a built-in coffee maker.

For the future it seems that there are many smaller fish nibbling away at the amateur market (RAW Power, Affinity) who will gradually win over more customers if the price of "Pro" software keeps spiralling.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 01, 2018, 04:38:57 am
Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?
For me; It is a list that contains all the adjustments made to an image in one easy to access place. CO in particular has adjustments spread over multiple tabs and keeping track of what's been done is not simple.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 01, 2018, 04:54:18 am
I use LR and C1. Never used the history in LR so don’t miss it in C1. I think it’s got a lot to do with a thought process.  I look at am image and decide if it needs something, more or less co trust for example. I do that as I go along. I never go back to a previous state. I simply adjust what needs adjusting.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 01, 2018, 07:23:43 am
It allows me to make several changes, then leap back and forth to see their effect en masse. I can't do that as easily if I have to undo one step at a time. I can undo and repeat a crop, for example. It may be that layers provide an alternative route. I can also see a list of the things I've done, perhaps so long ago that I've forgotten them.

I know its not the same as a history, but its easy to clone a variant in C1 (single keystroke), change an aspect of the edit, clone again, make further changes, clone again make further changes etc  Compare all clones in a multi-view, delete the clones you don't like and continue editing on the remaining clone.

You could,  as you suggest use layers, and switch between them, but the cloning approach is actually really fast, and allows comparing multiple images at once rather than switching off and on layers, or indeed switching back and forth between places in the history.

I also often end up with saving clones as snapshots of key editing stages so its easy to back track if I need to. 

For very subtle editing where you might want to back track through multiple brush stokes, this is obviously not much use, but for what I think of as everyday editing, it seems to work well.

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: TommyWeir on December 01, 2018, 10:48:44 am
Yes, the cloning approach is what I'd recommend.  A history palette would be a useful thing but the use case you outline would be arguably better served with clones, ability to compare side by side multiple options.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 01, 2018, 11:07:57 am
No, it does not. Can you elaborate, what makes that palette so wanted in a non-destructive image editor?

1. It allows one to restore a previous look - eg when it was printed
2. It allows one to assess if one's edits improve the image compared to a previous state - eg when it was printed, exported, or when you added that clarity adjustment. So in LR you can go back to any previous editing point and set the Before side of a Before/After split screen, which is very useful when fine tuning. In C1 I think you'd have to create a variant and either use Undo or know the image settings.
3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 01, 2018, 11:14:42 am
3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session
I think this is a really significant feature that makes so useful, one you quickly take for granted. You can just have a quick glance and see what's been done and move back or forward.

In LR we have similar functionality to variants with virtual copies and snapshots, but history is a well liked additional feature. I'm sure that if CO added it, users would embrace it and wonder why it was never added sooner.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 01, 2018, 11:34:33 am
I think this is a really significant feature that makes so useful, one you quickly take for granted.

Yes, an Elephant in the Room? But also cross-session Undo is so unusual that we don't recognise it as such.

In LR we have similar functionality to variants with virtual copies and snapshots, but history is a well liked additional feature. I'm sure that if CO added it, users would embrace it and wonder why it was never added sooner.

At the very start I was sceptical as History seemed a bit of PhotoshopThink, but it quickly became a "What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us?" feature.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: E.J. Peiker on December 01, 2018, 11:58:21 am
In case anyone else experiences a problem running the upgrade on a Win 7 system:

I updated both my Win 10 system and my Win 7.1 system. No problems at all, totally smooth on Win 10. The update on the Win 7 system threw me into a momentary panic. The software installed and then asked if I wanted to open C1 v. 12 which I said yes to. Nothing happened. I double clicked on the desktop icon it created and the little wheel that indicates that the computer is thinking went round and round for a while and then nothing. I launched C1 v. 11 and it said that my license had been deactivated. Tried C1 v. 12 again and again nothing. $#!+

So then I rebooted the system and all worked fine. The C1 installer should have said to restart the system when it finished, at least on my system...
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: nemtom on December 01, 2018, 12:18:34 pm
For me; It is a list that contains all the adjustments made to an image in one easy to access place. CO in particular has adjustments spread over multiple tabs and keeping track of what's been done is not simple.

To solve that problem would require much less effort from us, developers, than to create a fully functional History panel, where you can go back to any steps in your edit (including different versions of masks, etc). And actually there is already a workaround solution to see what settings are changed. All you need to do is to go to the Adjustment Clipboard tool, and under the ... menu enable the Autoselect > Adjusted (by default the Adjusted without Composition is selected), and hit the 'Copy adjustments from the primary variant' button on the title bar. This will put a checkmark next to each properties  you have changed. The local adjustment layer changes will be squeezed though...
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 01, 2018, 12:19:44 pm
1. It allows one to restore a previous look - eg when it was printed
2. It allows one to assess if one's edits improve the image compared to a previous state - eg when it was printed, exported, or when you added that clarity adjustment. So in LR you can go back to any previous editing point and set the Before side of a Before/After split screen, which is very useful when fine tuning. In C1 I think you'd have to create a variant and either use Undo or know the image settings.
3. It's an Undo that lasts beyond a single LR session

I think the key thing is how easy it is to get into a variant managed workflow in C1, its more accessible than LR snapshots and virtual copies, even though these are essentially the same thing.  F3 creates a cloned variant. Selecting multiple variants automatically sets them up in a multi variant view (I'm not sure what the upper limit of variants you can view at one time, but I haven't come against it yet). Scrolling and zooming are synched by holding down the shift key when performing an action. Variants can be removed by cmd click, and the whole operation is remarkable smooth, fast and intuitive.

You can also add some specific elements such as printing adjustments into a layer (as you suggest), and obviously any adjustments to a variant (and layers) is saved between session. Choosing the variant will show all its adjustments in the adjustment panels

I'm not saying that a history is of no value, because it is still useful, but because C1 seems designed around using a variant based approach, I suspect the loss of the history may not be as serious as many fear.   But, certainly I can't see any reason not to have the flexibility of having a history as well.

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 01, 2018, 12:53:17 pm
I think the key thing is how easy it is to get into a variant managed workflow in C1, its more accessible than LR snapshots and virtual copies, even though these are essentially the same thing.
As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: faberryman on December 01, 2018, 01:10:58 pm
As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.
Each has its advantages and disadvantages, and different photographers weigh those differently in deciding which program to use.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on December 01, 2018, 01:20:15 pm
As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.

Another advantage of the history panel is that it's automatic. There's no need to create variants (I assume the C1 equivalent of LR's virtual copies); it just happens.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 01, 2018, 01:22:29 pm
Variants are no different to virtual copies, and are really not comparable to the History panel which has 3 or 4  functions. Sure, you can conceivably use a variant to simulate a Before / After comparison, but only by creating that variant ahead of needing it. The History panel makes Before/After comparison trivial and without cluttering up your workflow with unnecessary virtual copies.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 01, 2018, 01:25:03 pm
As you say the option to use a variant based workflow is easy enough in LR too, but many of us find that the full history panel a really useful feature that works differently to cluttering up a library with many different variants. Especially so if you're just working with subtle adjustments that can't be seen on thumbnails.

Actually, I was suggesting it wasn't as easy in LR, or at least I haven't found it to be so (maybe I should revisit it), but, as in my earlier post I agree that if you are making lots rapid subtle adjustments then a history is much better than variants, but personally for things like that, I'm probably in Photoshop.  Having said that, I also often find the history irritating as I need to scroll back through dozens of minor changes trying to find the bigger change that I'm looking for

Also in my earlier post, my suggested workflow was to make comparative variants, view them together as large images in a multi view, and delete the variants that don't give you what you want. Clone the best variant as a snapshot, and then continue working on the new clone, so yes you still do end up with multiple variants, which can't be stacked !

Maybe the different approaches just suit different workflows. I tend to be fairly structured and like the variant approach.

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 01, 2018, 01:34:59 pm
Maybe the different approaches just suit different workflows. I tend to be fairly structured and like the variant approach.

It's not really a matter of "different strokes..." You can be as "structured" and use the variant approach using LR's VCs. LR just has an extra feature, which makes the comparison workflow more flexible and enables more approaches.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 01, 2018, 02:38:49 pm
It's not really a matter of "different strokes..." You can be as "structured" and use the variant approach using LR's VCs. LR just has an extra feature, which makes the comparison workflow more flexible and enables more approaches.

Trying to match the C1 variant workflow using virtual copies and snapshots in LR, I found clunky and unworkable, so I don't consider that to be a viable approach in LR, so the benefits of having a history are offset by the poorer implementation of a variant approach.

I have already said, a C1 variant approach is not a full replacement for history, just more useful than I think its given credit for, because its so easy to integrate into a C1 based workflow, and can substitute (together with layers) for many of the things that people include when they list why they need a history function. And therefore may not be a good reason to immediately reject considering Capture One, if there are some other aspects of the program might be valuable.

I have no problem at all with someone deciding that after due consideration their workflow really needs a History feature, but I would argue that for most people there are possibly more fundamental reasons to prefer LR over C1.



 





Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: IanSeward on December 01, 2018, 02:44:58 pm
I use LR and C1. Never used the history in LR so don’t miss it in C1. I think it’s got a lot to do with a thought process.  I look at am image and decide if it needs something, more or less co trust for example. I do that as I go along. I never go back to a previous state. I simply adjust what needs adjusting.
I feel the same.  I used LR since V1 and, although I was used to the history in PS where it plays a vital function, I never found the history in LR of any use at all in a parametric editor.  It may have changed now but in LR it used to record "every" action.  Thus you eded up with a list of edits like:
Made brush smaller, made brush larger, increased opacity, decreased opacity, adjusted feather etc.  You had to sort through all of these "irrelevant" commands to find what you had actually altered.  If you are on a brush mask you often alter several parameters increase shadows, pull back highlights, increase exposure etc.  Simply more confusing than it was worth (for me) unlike in PS.

I look at a photo whether during a session or sometime later and if there is something I think needs changing then I change it - LR is a parametric editor.  Sky too bright?  Is there a pin there?  If no add a gradient etc.

However, if people find it helps them fine, but for me in C1 I can't see the problem particularly with the layer workflow that C1 is designed around.  Now if you are trying to impose a LR workflow on a different editor then that will cause issues.  The programs are different.
For global adjustments there aren't that many sliders compared to LR because C1 uses Levels and Curves as major tonal changes much like PS.  A click into the colour editor reveals colour changes with a list of the colour pickers shown which can be toggled on/off.

For local adjustments C1 is far better than LR because it uses layers.  This makes the organisation of local adjustments very transparent and it is easy to scroll through any layers and be able to see where you have applied changes and again toggle on/off the effect of the layer as well as obviously adjusting the opacity to increase or reduce the overall effect of the adjustments.

Want to adjust the photo to print?  There is no need to make a virtual copy as you would do in LR simply add a "print" layer and make the adjustments using the excellent soft proof options in C1, name the layer and you know it is for Ilford Gold Fibre Silk.  Want to work on the file later, simply toggle off the "print" layer and off you go:-)

With any software you have to use it as it was designed and if you "fight" that by trying to impose the work flow from another program problems.  If you are not using layers with C1 then you are effectively crippling your work flow.  Remember virtually all tools work on layers including levels and curves as well as the superb colour editor.  Phaseone went the layered work flow and fundamental use of levels and curves like PS.  LR was designed to be anything but PS:-)  This is why the crop function works the opposite way to PS and every other photo editor I know.  Nothing wrong with this it is just different.  The point I am making is that each program needs to be used in an optimal manner.  You don't have to use C1 in the way its designed but it will make a huge difference if you do.

Ian
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 01, 2018, 03:07:41 pm
..... If you are not using layers with C1 then you are effectively crippling your work flow....
In the context of the lack of a history function; no one is suggesting not using layers, just that such a funtion might be a useful addition.
In the same way many LR users would like to see a layers option added to LR in the same way that CO utilises the concept.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 01, 2018, 03:18:53 pm
Trying to match the C1 variant workflow using virtual copies and snapshots in LR, I found clunky and unworkable, so I don't consider that to be a viable approach in LR, so the benefits of having a history are offset by the poorer implementation of a variant approach.

Really? In what way do you think the implementation of VCs differs from Variants? I don't see where it does at all, and without the History panel a LR user would use VCs exactly as a C1 user uses Variants. The History panel is liked for a few reasons, and I am a little surprised C1 hasn't implemented History as part of the catalogue. Maybe it's more difficult because of the session legacy?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 01, 2018, 03:50:35 pm
Really? In what way do you think the implementation of VCs differs from Variants? I don't see where it does at all, and without the History panel a LR user would use VCs exactly as a C1 user uses Variants. The History panel is liked for a few reasons, and I am a little surprised C1 hasn't implemented History as part of the catalogue. Maybe it's more difficult because of the session legacy?

I can't really remember the details, but there were subtle differences that made the LR experience very  stop and start compared to the more seamless C1 process, and I felt it interrupted my workflow.

But like you I am surprised they haven't implemented a history option, its certainly something that would be useful and requests for it crop up regularly. 

C1 has become a very different program over the last few years, from essentially an ACR alternative with an assumption every user would do their editing in Photoshop, to more obviously trying to compete with LR and even PS.

So, just as we have seen catalogues and an increasing range of editing tools added, I suspect a history panel has to be fairly high up the list of future features.

Cheers,
Graham
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 02, 2018, 02:29:29 am
Updated to 12 on my desktop and laptop. It was so simple and quick that when I updated the laptop i stood with the computer balanced on top of my printer while I ran through the process. About as simple and fast an update as I have ever encountered.

As to the need for a history panel. Some users clearly like it so makes sense to add it if possible. I don't use it on LR and wouldn't on C1 either if it was available.   
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: IanSeward on December 02, 2018, 06:45:37 am
Really? In what way do you think the implementation of VCs differs from Variants? I don't see where it does at all, and without the History panel a LR user would use VCs exactly as a C1 user uses Variants. The History panel is liked for a few reasons, and I am a little surprised C1 hasn't implemented History as part of the catalogue. Maybe it's more difficult because of the session legacy?
Hi John
While I am very much of the "do whatever you want, it is all a personal choice" I have not seen any real use case for a history list in a parametric editor like C1 with layers capability.  You have a great deal of knowledge and experience with LR what are the use cases you see as important?  Would you still need a history if LR used layers instead of brushes?

Also does LR still record every action like increase brush size etc. or has it improved with CC? 

People have given examples like alternative crops but that is handled by layers or variants easier and better than scrolling through a history list.  Also you lose all edits after the history point is selected (unless it has changed in CC) whereas the advantage of a parametric editor is the fact that you change whatever you like and lose nothing.

I am not criticising anyone for using history just trying to understand how they fit in with a parametric editor with layers? I don't know how many other parametric raw converters use a history list? In PS it makes perfect sense but I never understood them in LR although I used LR from V1.

Ian

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 02, 2018, 08:33:43 am
I gave three key ones earlier, Ian - restore a previous key stage like printing, to set the Before side in Before/After fine tuning, and Undo that works after reopening the app. LR does still record History in too-fine detail for my taste too, but I'm not sure it would be better to summarize multiple brush strokes or slider movements as single-line actions.

I don't really see layers as relevant to LR's History's uses. If LR or C1 had both, they'd be as broadly complementary as any other features, so I'd expect to use both. To me layers' real value is grouping related adjustments so you readily can see and fine tune them together - a bit like how Nik programs allow you to group control points. So I am probably seeing C1's layers as more analogous to Photoshop's than to anything in LR.

John
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 02, 2018, 09:09:15 am
I gave three key ones earlier, Ian - restore a previous key stage like printing, to set the Before side in Before/After fine tuning, and Undo that works after reopening the app. LR does still record History in too-fine detail for my taste too, but I'm not sure it would be better to summarize multiple brush strokes or slider movements as single-line actions.

Hi John,

Most of that can be done with "Variants" in Capture One, together with the Layers functionality. Not exactly the same yet very similar.

Do note, Layers in C1 are more like Groups of layers in Photoshop, because a single adjustment layer can contain various different adjustments (e.g. Exposure+Curves+WhiteBalance) and the individual adjustments in a single layer can be temporarily reset to their default by an Alt/Option+mouseclick (thus leaving e.g. the +Curves+Whitebalance, but without Exposure adjustment, or Exposure+Whitebalance, without Curves).

So yes, it's more like Photoshop than LR in that respect.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 02, 2018, 09:21:57 am
Not exactly the same yet very similar.
No it's nothing like the history panel.
The history panel 'just happens automatically' it doesn't have to be used, doesn't have to take up any screen space. Having dozens of variants clutters up the catalogue and browsing experience, plus you have to plan to use the option, there's no going back to a previous state unless you bothered to record it.

Can we just agree that those of us that use this and see it's value think CO would benefit from it, but there really isn't any similar functionality in CO right now.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 02, 2018, 10:17:27 am
Can we just agree that those of us that use this and see it's value think CO would benefit from it, but there really isn't any similar functionality in CO right now.

Sure, no problem with that. Just want to make sure that people understand that there are several ways of skinning the same cat, with a similar end result. It's just a workflow preference, and I've worked with LR since version 1.0 and never found a use for the history function then, and thus have never missed it in C1 either.

It has a lot to do with how one adjusts an image. I have a very clear goal and will work towards that end, no need to backtrack, my mind is already fixed on the final image. It's quite like this tutorial video (https://learn.phaseone.com/capture-one/12/complete-workflows/easy-color-grading/) (including the use of one layer, but he could have done the earlier adjustments on one or more separate layers as well with the ability to toggle them off/on as a group or individually). It's even similar to how I shoot. Before I get the camera out of the bag, I already see the image and composition in my mind, and when I get the camera out of the bag I already know which focal length to put on it, before mounting to the tripod.

Others may feel the need to experiment more, that's fine as well.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 02, 2018, 10:58:35 am
People really shouldn't be misled into imagining it is several ways to skin the cat - having History simply enables a range of extra possibilities which are inefficient/awkward with VCs/variants.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: IanSeward on December 02, 2018, 04:26:02 pm
I gave three key ones earlier, Ian - restore a previous key stage like printing, to set the Before side in Before/After fine tuning, and Undo that works after reopening the app. LR does still record History in too-fine detail for my taste too, but I'm not sure it would be better to summarize multiple brush strokes or slider movements as single-line actions.

I don't really see layers as relevant to LR's History's uses. If LR or C1 had both, they'd be as broadly complementary as any other features, so I'd expect to use both. To me layers' real value is grouping related adjustments so you readily can see and fine tune them together - a bit like how Nik programs allow you to group control points. So I am probably seeing C1's layers as more analogous to Photoshop's than to anything in LR.

John
Thanks for taking the time to reply, there is no right or wrong just choice.  I never made any real use of history in LR and I wondered if I was overlooking any situations I had not considered. 

The print option you mention is I think done better in C1 because you can have a print layer built into the layer stack.  No need to search through a history list.  Fine tuning can again be tackled with layers toggling on/off.  As I have said before I see no need to undo an adjustment in a parametric editor which loses you all work after the step back just change the brightness / contrast or whatever that is bothering you.  If the change is in a local adjustment then that is in a layer and easily toggled on/off or opacity varied.

I think if people want a history layer it would help if they made a request via the PhaseOne support forum.  PhaseOne do listen to their customers, as much as any company listens :-)

Personally, from listening to the webinars and interviews with PhaseOne technical people on the Luminous Landscape video interviews where, in a video, you get a feel for the people and company I don't think history will come to C1Pro.  They have said that any new feature is debated long and hard before it makes the cut in an effort to avoid feature creep and bloat.  They have nailed their colours to the mast of a layered work flow which, if not eliminates the need for history, certainly minimises the "gain".  In the same way we will never see a "red eye" brush in C1Pro, it's only another local adjustment :-)

However, I have been wrong before and time will tell:-)

Ian
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: john beardsworth on December 03, 2018, 04:44:36 am
Ian, you're still not really getting - and maybe I'm not expressing clearly enough - that History is more about the chronological aspects of editing photos, not about grouping related adjustments. Let's take the print example. I don't print with C1 so am I right that you would have needed to have deliberately created a layer with print-related adjustments? You're seeing this in "grouping" terms, toggling on and off. But I am thinking about how one might have edited an image over time. Without my needing to do anything, History lets me go back to the image as it was whenever I printed it, each time being recorded. So it might be to the first time the image was printed, or the second time when it was printed with a slightly-different crop and brighter - the layers are adding up, while I'm not having to think. I can revisit the B&W treatment I tried last year, or to when I was warming the sky or lifting the shadows in the corner etc. History means I've no need to think ahead or do anything. It's not about toggling, it's an Undo on steroids.

John
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: myotis on December 03, 2018, 06:01:39 am
History lets me go back to the image as it was whenever I printed it, each time being recorded. So it might be to the first time the image was printed, or the second time when it was printed with a slightly-different crop and brighter - the layers are adding up, while I'm not having to think. I can revisit the B&W treatment I tried last year, or to when I was warming the sky or lifting the shadows in the corner etc. History means I've no need to think ahead or do anything. It's not about toggling, it's an Undo on steroids.

That is interesting John. You dismissed my suggestion that the value of History was related to workflow, but these are all examples where you seem to have reached a particular stage in the process e.g. printing, which I would never just rely on History for. Even if I was using it. I would want to feel these stages  were more easily accessible and not lost somewhere in the history.

So not knowing that a key stage has been specifically saved and easily found would stop me moving onto the next stage. Planning and thinking ahead is part of my workflow.  I export all final images as TIFFs, before printing or converting to JPEGs, so this is always a definitive step in my workflow

Where I find History very useful is in the short term, when for example using a 5% flow and slowly building up a change, and I want to quickly see if I have gone a couple of strokes too far. Or that sort of thing where I may want to go further back. 

This might explain why I am perfectly happy with a Variant/Layer approach as an alternative for "most" of the history functions, and I take comfort in it needing user intervention, as I feel in control and each variant or layer represents a discrete step. You appear to not see it as offering an alternative for "any" of the functions provided by History, because of the fundamental difference that History requires no user intervention.

I think I understand  your argument better now, as I had never imagined anyone relying on/using History the way you, and presumably others, are using it, and I can't argue against the no user intervention difference.

Cheers,

Graham

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: IanSeward on December 03, 2018, 06:51:32 am
Ian, you're still not really getting - and maybe I'm not expressing clearly enough - that History is more about the chronological aspects of editing photos, not about grouping related adjustments. Let's take the print example. I don't print with C1 so am I right that you would have needed to have deliberately created a layer with print-related adjustments? You're seeing this in "grouping" terms, toggling on and off. But I am thinking about how one might have edited an image over time. Without my needing to do anything, History lets me go back to the image as it was whenever I printed it, each time being recorded. So it might be to the first time the image was printed, or the second time when it was printed with a slightly-different crop and brighter - the layers are adding up, while I'm not having to think. I can revisit the B&W treatment I tried last year, or to when I was warming the sky or lifting the shadows in the corner etc. History means I've no need to think ahead or do anything. It's not about toggling, it's an Undo on steroids.

John

I am not quite getting it but that may be due to the little use I made in LR of the history function as it never seemed to fit with the non sequential editing flow used in a parametric editor, not helped by the fact that there were so many irrelevant steps being recorded like brush size that it was difficult to find where I was. :-)  Also although I used LR since V1 I have not used CC and I know there have been many improvements and changes.  It used to be that if I stepped back to an earlier point in the editing process by clicking on a history state then as soon as I touched a control I lost all of the edit steps after that point.  Is this different now in CC?

I don't print from C1Pro I use the excellent Soft Proof facility to prepare the print for use in whatever ICC print profile is appropriate using a layer, used to make a variant but now find the layer more convenient.  I then send the print to my old friend Qimage Pro (now Ultimate) which I have used for ever, well since the very early 2000's :-)

Ian

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Doug Peterson on December 03, 2018, 07:39:25 am
I’ve taught a few hundred individuals (mostly pros, some enthusiasts) Capture One over the last decade.

About a third really miss a History panel with before/after slider. About two thirds don’t miss it at all, and would rarely or never use it even if it was added. Those two sides rarely understand each other.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: TommyWeir on December 05, 2018, 10:57:38 am
Yep, back to those Luma masking options.  Really fantastic. Can be very subtle.  I'm loving this update.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 05, 2018, 11:02:50 am
Yep, back to those Luma masking options.  Really fantastic. Can be very subtle.  I'm loving this update.

I agree, and the tunable implementation (brightness range and transition) of the function is very powerful.
Also the ability to brush in/out the regions where it is to be applied, very nice.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 05, 2018, 12:37:15 pm
And to export the mask as a selection to another layer to use for something else. Luma masking has quickly become a part of my workflow.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Jeff on December 06, 2018, 08:33:33 am
With the increasing feature set available for layers  ( e.g. radial / luma masking ) and only one source point for clone / heal per layer perhaps a development for v13 should perhaps look at increasing the number of layers available for use  ( currently 16 ?  )

Luma masking appears a very useful addition, looking forward to next week's dedicated Phase One Webinar on the feature  :)
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: BillSmith on December 07, 2018, 01:48:58 pm
+ 1 for more layers and a history window. please add a DEHAZE tool in V13
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Warren Parsons on December 07, 2018, 10:52:49 pm
It's really disappointing that DAM still isn't a priority for Phase One. I was really hoping to see some real progress made on the catalog front in v12.

Using Lightroom for DAM and C1 for editing is still a least awful option.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Christopher on December 08, 2018, 01:55:30 pm
Dehaze in v13?!! V12.1 please!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Paul2660 on December 08, 2018, 02:34:37 pm
+1 for Dehaze,  really would be a nice addition. 

Paul C
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 08, 2018, 08:00:05 pm
+1 for Dehaze,  really would be a nice addition.

While interesting, I'm wondering what people are using it for, and whether there are no better solutions.

Personally, I could see a use for it to perhaps slightly exaggerate the atmospheric perspective, or slightly reduce it, if that helps the image. But I'd rather have a more generally useful enhancement like the TopazLabs (Precision) Detail plugin. A slightly more tunable and enhanced Clarity (not only mid-tone contrast) function would also help all images instead of a just a few.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 09, 2018, 01:33:06 am
I’m not really getting on with C1 DAM. I’m too used to LR I suspect. I need to make a more concerted effort with it. It’s one area I feel LR has an advantage over C1.

I was super excited about dehaze when it first came out but I stopped using it a while back. Not in a concious way, I just never look at an image and think “now for a bit of dehaze”.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 09, 2018, 06:22:44 am
I was super excited about dehaze when it first came out but I stopped using it a while back. Not in a concious way, I just never look at an image and think “now for a bit of dehaze”.

Similar experience, interesting at first but not often used after a while, hence my question what people are using it for. Maybe there is an alternative (creative) use possible?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 09, 2018, 06:34:28 am
Similar experience, interesting at first but not often used after a while, hence my question what people are using it for. Maybe there is an alternative (creative) use possible?

Cheers,
Bart

I think it may be useful to use negative values on misty backgrounds and so on. Make them more misty looking. I will sometimes give it a try with various images but usually end up undoing it. Would also be interested in what others have to say about it.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Kiwi Paul on December 09, 2018, 10:48:31 am
Similar experience, interesting at first but not often used after a while, hence my question what people are using it for. Maybe there is an alternative (creative) use possible?

Cheers,
Bart

One use is to bring out detail in clouds, used carefully it can be very effective for that in conjunction with contrast and clarity.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: kers on December 09, 2018, 03:50:00 pm
Clarity and Dehaze are very welcome attributes i find.

They both do something that i could not achieve so quickly otherwise and give sometimes better results.
But used to strong they can become very ugly- like most filters.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: dchew on December 09, 2018, 08:05:01 pm
I use Dehaze sometimes in the softproof process. I make other small adjustments with the usual sliders to get a sofproof to look right like vibrance, whites, blacks, shadows, etc. but I often find a point or two of Dehaze puts the finishing touch on the print.

I am one of those who starts in C1, then exports keepers into my LR Master catalog for DAM, printing and exporting purposes.

Dave
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 10, 2018, 01:50:05 am
I use Dehaze sometimes in the softproof process. I make other small adjustments with the usual sliders to get a sofproof to look right like vibrance, whites, blacks, shadows, etc.  but I often find a point or two of Dehaze puts the finishing touch on the print.

I am one of those who starts in C1, then exports keepers into my LR Master catalog for DAM, printing and exporting purposes.

Dave

Clever. I can see that working.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: JaapD on December 10, 2018, 02:36:43 am
I would very much appreciate an improved implementation of cloning & healing in V13. For me this is 'THE' main reason why I’m still using Photoshop. It would be absolute great if I was able to have my workflow from start to finish in one package: CaptureOne.


Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: dchew on December 10, 2018, 03:12:52 am
I would very much appreciate an improved implementation of cloning & healing in V13. For me this is 'THE' main reason why I’m still using Photoshop. It would be absolute great if I was able to have my workflow from start to finish in one package: CaptureOne.


Regards,
Jaap.

I used to run around the image with the spot removal tool and accomplish only frustration. I have much better luck creating a healing layer and using the brush tool. Works alot better.

However, LR’s tool is still one of those things I use after the image is imported into my Master catalog. That tool is second only to Content Aware.

Dave

Dave
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: JaapD on December 11, 2018, 03:16:06 pm
Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. Let me explain why I still need Photoshop to do my retouching:

According CaptureOne “For most repair work, particularly skin blemishes or large expanses of sky with a slight gradient, the Heal tool should be the first choice” and “the brush-based Heal tool should be adopted when more complex and precise repairing of imperfections is required”. So far so good but now it comes “Only one sampling point can be set per layer, though, up to 16 layers can be created for one image”.

So for every sample point I need to create a new layer, and I’m limited to 16. Who invented this utterly cr@p? What were they smoking in Denmark? This is absolutely unworkable. Just as in Photoshop I need to select as many sampling points as I require for retouching that image, and all in one layer.

Oh yeah, there is one other annoyance: C1 defaults vertical keystoning to 80%. Why is this not a configurable preset? Again, what were they smoking? Something like “we know better and our customers are idiots wanting to correct their architectural images at 100% vertical keystoning” Does the C1 team know the working of a shift lens?

Apart from this I really, really appreciate everything else C1 provides.

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 11, 2018, 07:46:32 pm
“Only one sampling point can be set per layer, though, up to 16 layers can be created for one image”.

Hi Jaap,

I agree that it is limiting, but even 32 layers would not really solve that specific use of layers (although more than 16 would help in some other use-cases). However, it's not the recommended workflow if your task involves dealing with lots of dust, especially a sequence of shots. Capture One Pro can use the LCC functionality for that. Especially easy if one shoots stationary subjects from a tripod, such as Architecture, and infinitely much faster and more accurate than doing it spot by spot by hand.

Quote
Oh yeah, there is one other annoyance: C1 defaults vertical keystoning to 80%. Why is this not a configurable preset?

It IS configurable! You just add that correction, with the specific percentage that's best according to your preference/taste and type of subjects to a "Style" that is either always used when opening a Raw file, or as a specific additional User Style (see attached) that you use for specific subjects and can be applied to a series of shots with 2 mouse clicks in hindsight. It also allows to under-correct keystoning with e.g. 94% or whatever looks more natural than 100%.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: JaapD on December 12, 2018, 12:29:43 am
Hi Bart, thanks for your reply. It is not dust I want to retouch so LCC won’t help me in this. I keep saying that one sampling point per layer is a bad implementation of ‘healing’.

I don’t recognize that the default keystoning value is configurable. As far as I was aware this default setting cannot be stored in a style but your .png looks convincing. I’m sure it didn’t work in V10 (support case initiated, discussed with David) but let me check again with V12. => Thanks!

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 12, 2018, 07:15:05 am
Hi Bart, thanks for your reply. It is not dust I want to retouch so LCC won’t help me in this. I keep saying that one sampling point per layer is a bad implementation of ‘healing’.

I don’t recognize that the default keystoning value is configurable. As far as I was aware this default setting cannot be stored in a style but your .png looks convincing. I’m sure it didn’t work in V10 (support case initiated, discussed with David) but let me check again with V12. => Thanks!

Hi Jaap,

It has been possible to 'automatically' override system defaults since many versions ago.

It is a 2 step approach.

I use Styles, because that allows to set many tools at the same time (for a specific camera or shooting scenario), e.g. camera profile to use, Response curve, Contrast and Saturation settings, Noise reduction, lens distortions settings, etc., etc.. That saves me a lot of time, because most settings are already close to what they will finally be.

Using a Preset allows to restrict that to a single tool's settings. A preset can also be used to set/switch the tool's settings to a selection of multiple files at the same time.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: alain on December 12, 2018, 10:21:34 am
Hi

Are there improvements with the RAW conversion in 12.0?

Is it possible to apply a nr of layers to a file?  Maybe as a style?  In 11.x this is only possible while copying the layers from an existing image...

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: JaapD on December 12, 2018, 01:22:09 pm
Hi Bart, thanks again for your reply, much appreciated!

Regarding Styles I haven't found a way creating a ‘default’ style. With this I mean a style C1 automatically applies during startup, without the need to manually select a style during image import.
I believe this isn’t possible, right?

In that case I’ll use what’s available and that would be manually selecting a by me predefined style during image import.

Regards,
Jaap.

Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 12, 2018, 04:02:21 pm
Hi Bart, thanks again for your reply, much appreciated!

Regarding Styles I haven't found a way creating a ‘default’ style. With this I mean a style C1 automatically applies during startup, without the need to manually select a style during image import.
I believe this isn’t possible, right?

Correct, not during startup, unless you start up a Session or Catalog and select a file with those Style settings. But when applied to imports those Style settings are fixed for those files, and a style can be copied from one file and applied afterward to multiple other selected files.

Quote
In that case I’ll use what’s available and that would be manually selecting a by me predefined style during image import.

Yes, that should do the trick.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: lee469 on December 17, 2018, 12:29:43 pm
I just heard that capture one is cancelling the 10% discount code as of January first. Is this true?
I have upgraded each year.  This year was a big jump in upgrade cost and NOT happy so I was going to skip a year.
Now I have to reconsider upgrading this year and skip the next upgrade just to get the last discount.
Can anyone verify if discount is being cancelled?
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Rhossydd on December 18, 2018, 06:53:59 am
This year was a big jump in upgrade cost and NOT happy so I was going to skip a year.
Hate to point it out, but Adobe started out messing around with upgrade prices and policies just before they went subscription only.

Given the more professional user base of CO it must be becoming an alluring vision for them on Adobe's "success".
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Dinarius on December 18, 2018, 07:42:43 am
Hate to point it out, but Adobe started out messing around with upgrade prices and policies just before they went subscription only.

Given the more professional user base of CO it must be becoming an alluring vision for them on Adobe's "success".

It took Adobe a while to realize that customers would like to pick and choose what they wanted. Original subscription models centred on offering lots of programs that most people had no use for.

LR + Photoshop CS for about $10 p/m is a bargain, if you have the use for it.

I know some Pros paying what amounts to about $10 p/m to have C1 and another $10 p/m to have access to Photoshop CS (they don't use LR) and that $20 total isn't much if you're writing it off against tax.

For the little I use PS, I'm still happy with CS6. But, software is only getting cheaper.

D.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: Ray Harrison on December 18, 2018, 09:43:09 am
I just heard that capture one is cancelling the 10% discount code as of January first. Is this true?
I have upgraded each year.  This year was a big jump in upgrade cost and NOT happy so I was going to skip a year.
Now I have to reconsider upgrading this year and skip the next upgrade just to get the last discount.
Can anyone verify if discount is being cancelled?

The discount code expiring seems to align with what other sites are saying. I guess the real question to ask yourself might be: "Do I need C1-12?". If so, you can save a very small amount of money on the upgrade by using the 10% code. If not, you can save a larger sum by not purchasing it and budget for it for next year. I don't expect it to get cheaper though but really, as others have said, software these days is reasonably cheap. And heck, there are many more software options out there too.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: UnfamiliarLight on December 19, 2018, 12:48:56 pm
Hate to point it out, but Adobe started out messing around with upgrade prices and policies just before they went subscription only.

Given the more professional user base of CO it must be becoming an alluring vision for them on Adobe's "success".
I sincerely hope not. Hopefully the number of people who switched to C1 *because* of Adobe's decision to drop stand alone licensing is high enough that Phase one does not do that.
Hey, having a subscription choice is excellent, lots of people like it. All I ask is that I have a stand alone choice too.
Title: Re: Capture One 12.0
Post by: budjames on December 29, 2018, 01:02:46 pm
Dehaze in v13?!! V12.1 please!


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I found since version 10 that adding clarity and contrast can do a pretty good job of simulating a dehaze adjustment.
Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.