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Author Topic: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?  (Read 52673 times)

gkroeger

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #460 on: August 31, 2019, 02:11:25 pm »

Business decision to keep development costs on their APS-C line to a minimum. How much will 2mp really matter? Their 24mpix cameras were selling very well.

It's not the 2 extra MP that I care about... it's the other improvements that 3+ years of sensor development bring. The A6600 seems to me to be a stopgap camera. I find it odd that Sony would develop a $1400 G zoom lens for APSC and not have a flagship body that matches... new sensor, better EVF, UHS-II, etc.  I think the numbering of the A6100 and A6600 tell us that they are just updates to the A6000 and A6500... but leaves room for an A6700 or A6800.  Time will tell.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #461 on: August 31, 2019, 02:43:50 pm »

It's not the 2 extra MP that I care about... it's the other improvements that 3+ years of sensor development bring. The A6600 seems to me to be a stopgap camera. I find it odd that Sony would develop a $1400 G zoom lens for APSC and not have a flagship body that matches... new sensor, better EVF, UHS-II, etc.  I think the numbering of the A6100 and A6600 tell us that they are just updates to the A6000 and A6500... but leaves room for an A6700 or A6800.  Time will tell.

A6700 has been out for months but I get your meaning.

Pointless trying to predict what Sony is going to do. Many try. Predictions of A7000, new A9, A73S and they release an A7r4 that no one saw coming. It must make the competition crazy. Leaves me scratching my head.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #462 on: August 31, 2019, 03:12:00 pm »

Sony just keeps on plowing ahead.

They do but I wonder if it's always a good thing?  I can imagine that owners of the  6400 6500 6600 group might be a bit pissed off about the hotch potch of features and omissions. Why didn't Sony slow down a bit and deliver one good camera?
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faberryman

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #463 on: August 31, 2019, 03:19:17 pm »

Why didn't Sony slow down a bit and deliver one good camera?
Because they sell more cameras that way? Some photographers just have to have the latest model.
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gkroeger

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #464 on: August 31, 2019, 03:22:11 pm »

A6700 has been out for months but I get your meaning.
Huh?  Not in my universe.  Sony has (currently) the A6100, A6400 and A6600.  There were lots of rumors that the new camera would be the A6700, which is why A6600 seems to me to be a stop gap.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #465 on: August 31, 2019, 03:36:31 pm »

Huh?  Not in my universe.  Sony has (currently) the A6100, A6400 and A6600.  There were lots of rumors that the new camera would be the A6700, which is why A6600 seems to me to be a stop gap.

Oops my mistake. You are quite correct. Got all these numbers confused. Please accept my apologies.
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gkroeger

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #466 on: August 31, 2019, 03:52:58 pm »

Oops my mistake. You are quite correct. Got all these numbers confused. Please accept my apologies.

No need to apologize... not sure why we need 4 digit numbering of camera bodies anyway
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chez

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #467 on: August 31, 2019, 07:54:45 pm »

They do but I wonder if it's always a good thing?  I can imagine that owners of the  6400 6500 6600 group might be a bit pissed off about the hotch potch of features and omissions. Why didn't Sony slow down a bit and deliver one good camera?

Well what's wrong with the 6400 or 6600? What is this hotch potch of features you talk about?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #468 on: August 31, 2019, 10:52:05 pm »

Well what's wrong with the 6400 or 6600? What is this hotch potch of features you talk about?

As a former a5100 user, there was a lot to like about the camera, except the lenses that were very average and basically no primes.

At the time Fujifilm’s lens line up was in a totally different league for serious shooters .

How is it today?

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #469 on: September 01, 2019, 02:10:54 am »

Sony have loads of cameras available. It doesn’t have to make sense in terms of a logical progression of features. Just find one that suits you. There is bound to be one that does if you are comfortable with Sony ergonomics and interface. Also a ton of lenses from a variety of manufacturers and widely varying price points.

If you want the best rated camera that can do anything and everything better than any other camera life can get complicated. If you come at it from the point of what you want to shoot things get much simpler.
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KLaban

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #470 on: September 01, 2019, 04:43:17 am »

Sony have loads of cameras available. It doesn’t have to make sense in terms of a logical progression of features. Just find one that suits you. There is bound to be one that does if you are comfortable with Sony ergonomics and interface. Also a ton of lenses from a variety of manufacturers and widely varying price points.

If you want the best rated camera that can do anything and everything better than any other camera life can get complicated. If you come at it from the point of what you want to shoot things get much simpler.

Never a truer word.

My choices - and there have been very few over more years than I care to remember - have always revolved around which camera/system it is I'm most comfortable using and therefore more likely to use. Everything else pales into insignificance.

Works for me.

DP

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #471 on: September 01, 2019, 10:10:33 am »

That's what I meant... Sony allows Fuji to use the new 26 MP sensor while they (surprisingly) still use an older 24 MP sensor themselves.

Sony Imaging knows that they can't make a really good camera body and price it properly (as Fuji's shameful debacle with X-H1 price shows and how Fuji was right with X-T3 when it was properly priced $100 less when released vs X-T2 release price) as FF dSLMs kick a$$ of APS-C dSLMs price-wise ... so they simply decided to stick with a cheaper 24mp to make better margins... this is simply about margins and nothing else...
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DP

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #472 on: September 01, 2019, 10:11:41 am »

It's not the 2 extra MP that I care about... it's the other improvements that 3+ years of sensor development bring. The A6600 seems to me to be a stopgap camera. I find it odd that Sony would develop a $1400 G zoom lens for APSC and not have a flagship body that matches... new sensor, better EVF, UHS-II, etc.  I think the numbering of the A6100 and A6600 tell us that they are just updates to the A6000 and A6500... but leaves room for an A6700 or A6800.  Time will tell.

you can sell lens today, year later, 2 years later and still have proper price ... you can't do the same with camera bodies ... Sony knows that they can't make X-H1 like APS-C camera body and sell it in quantities enough too justify the design, tooling, production... and as noted unlike with bodies prices for lenses are more stable
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 10:14:49 am by DP »
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DP

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #473 on: September 01, 2019, 10:16:37 am »

As a former a5100 user, there was a lot to like about the camera, except the lenses that were very average and basically no primes.

At the time Fujifilm’s lens line up was in a totally different league for serious shooters .


A5100 was released in 2014... at the time only M43 was in different league lens-wise... Fuji was not even close.
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DP

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #474 on: September 01, 2019, 10:17:19 am »

Well what's wrong with the 6400 or 6600? What is this hotch potch of features you talk about?

let us start with AF joystick ?
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chez

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #475 on: September 01, 2019, 10:33:33 am »

As a former a5100 user, there was a lot to like about the camera, except the lenses that were very average and basically no primes.

At the time Fujifilm’s lens line up was in a totally different league for serious shooters .

How is it today?

Cheers,
Bernard

No idea, don't use APS lenses. I use my full frame lenses as I use my A6000 as a backup camera. I know Sony just released two lenses that appear to be making noise in the industry.
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chez

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #476 on: September 01, 2019, 10:54:13 am »

let us start with AF joystick ?

Yeh...how the hell can I ever use my joystickless A7R2 and A7R.

What do you think about the advanced AF detection, eye AF and tracking...making the need to select a focus point and trying to keep that point on the subject a thing of the past.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #477 on: September 01, 2019, 11:03:02 am »

I never use the joystick anymore. I have set the touchscreen to use the the bottom right section as a track pad instead but to be honest even that doesn’t get much use anymore with the advanced tracking functionality.
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gkroeger

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #478 on: September 01, 2019, 09:13:29 pm »

Nikon is a super conservative company, at least on higher mgt side.

They still live in a old slow changing world.

Cheers,
Bernard

Unfortunately, camera companies don't "live" long in that world... they die (particularly if they don't sell copiers and televisions or run movie studios).  By the start of 2020, both Sony and Canon will have higher resolution mirrorless bodies with more lenses than Nikon. The Z6 has some legs... it still has great video, solid autofocus and a better EVF than the A7III. But the Z7 will have lost the resolution/dynamic range crown that it inherited from the D800-810-850 dynasty that Nikon had built. In Jobsian terms, the Z7 skated to where the puck was, not where the puck was going to be. It barely (or not quite, depending on your viewpoint) caught up with the D850 and A7RIII. One hopes that Nikon engineers knew that and planned for a relatively quick refresh swapping in an upgraded sensor and EVF. Whether the bean-counters will allow that to happen remains to be seen, but if the Z7 isn't updated in the next year, Nikon will have lost the lead they had built with the D8xx series, perhaps for good. This possibility saddens me.

Glenn
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #479 on: September 02, 2019, 01:32:24 am »

Unfortunately, camera companies don't "live" long in that world... they die (particularly if they don't sell copiers and televisions or run movie studios).  By the start of 2020, both Sony and Canon will have higher resolution mirrorless bodies with more lenses than Nikon. The Z6 has some legs... it still has great video, solid autofocus and a better EVF than the A7III. But the Z7 will have lost the resolution/dynamic range crown that it inherited from the D800-810-850 dynasty that Nikon had built. In Jobsian terms, the Z7 skated to where the puck was, not where the puck was going to be. It barely (or not quite, depending on your viewpoint) caught up with the D850 and A7RIII. One hopes that Nikon engineers knew that and planned for a relatively quick refresh swapping in an upgraded sensor and EVF. Whether the bean-counters will allow that to happen remains to be seen, but if the Z7 isn't updated in the next year, Nikon will have lost the lead they had built with the D8xx series, perhaps for good. This possibility saddens me.

I guess that the only good news for Nikon is that one of their 2 competitors is Canon.

Great lenses, poor bodies for 10 years or more... and things have gotten worse since the start of the mirrorless days. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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