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Author Topic: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?  (Read 52687 times)

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2018, 07:55:31 pm »

I don’t think they are meaningless at all if you try to understand them.

They are focusing on cameras newly introduced in 2018 I believe.

They very clearly convey the lukewarm welcome of the Canon R.

A few months back a majority of observers were deeply convinced that Canon would hit it out of the park with their new super strategic mirrorless offering.

And Canon marketing is still desperately trying to convince the world that they have...  ;D

The reality is vastly different.

As far as the comparison of Nikon to Sony (topics that you brought in), I see the a7rIII as the best mirrorless body for applications where AF matters and the Z7 as the best for all other applications, including landscape, still, architecture,... and the R is... best at nothing... just a mirrorless platform for Canon users still hoping that their heavy investment in excellent glass will some day be rewarded by the release of cameras able to let them express fully their talent.

If you insist on adding DSLRs to this discussion then the D850 is indeed IMHO the best all rounder on the market.

I was reading yesterday discussions at FM about a world famous bird photographer having moved to Nikon who was providing very detailed info about how the D5 (and D850) were ahead of the 1DxII (the 5DIV being far behind) in terms of auto-focus and about how happy he was about the Canon until he found out how much better the D5 is.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

I believe you are talking about Artie Morris. Wonder how much incentives were involved in the switch. Money talks loudly.

There is another photographer on FM who is not affiliated with any system and has tried them all and claims the A9 has the most accurate and consistent AF tracking of all cameras he tried. His work speaks to his abilities and I trust some who has no affiliation with a company much more than someone who is in bed with a company.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 07:58:41 pm by hogloff »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2018, 07:57:44 pm »

I believe you are talking about Artie Morris. Wonder how much incentives were involved in the switch. Money talks loudly.

No, I am not.

But Artie made the same choice.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #202 on: December 28, 2018, 08:08:22 pm »

There is another photographer on FM who is not affiliated with any system and has tried them all and claims the A9 has the most accurate and consistent AF tracking of all cameras he tried. His work speaks to his abilities and I trust some who has no affiliation with a company much more than someone who is in bed with a company.

I am sure you do. ;)

There is just one small issue, most bird photographers consider a 400mm f2.8 to be far for optimal for that application.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #203 on: December 28, 2018, 08:24:42 pm »

I am sure you do. ;)

There is just one small issue, most bird photographers consider a 400mm f2.8 to be far for optimal for that application.

Cheers,
Bernard

Actually the tests were with a 1.4 extender compared to the 600 f4 from CaNikon. Still resulted with more accurate tracking in challenging conditions...more keepers.

Let's also not forget the bird-eye tracking that Sony has let out of the bag.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #204 on: December 28, 2018, 08:41:54 pm »

Actually the tests were with a 1.4 extender compared to the 600 f4 from CaNikon. Still resulted with more accurate tracking in challenging conditions...more keepers.

Let's also not forget the bird-eye tracking that Sony has let out of the bag.

Ok, Canikon doesn’t mean anything since Nikon is in a different league compared to Canon.

The a9 is an excellent camera, no question. I haven’t seen that test but that opinion is still pretty minor it seems.

I understand your urge to bring Sony in this discussion, but my point was on Canon vs Nikon.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #205 on: December 28, 2018, 08:48:25 pm »

Ok, Canikon doesn’t mean anything since Nikon is in a different league compared to Canon.

The a9 is an excellent camera, no question. I haven’t seen that test but that opinion is still pretty minor it seems.

I understand your urge to bring Sony in this discussion, but my point was on Canon vs Nikon.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ok...your thread. But I personally like looking and discussing cameras from the various manufactures rather than artificially limit what is discussed.

Especially when your are talking about the "Mirrorless war"... Why exclude the reigning champion?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #206 on: December 28, 2018, 09:29:47 pm »

Ok...your thread. But I personally like looking and discussing cameras from the various manufactures rather than artificially limit what is discussed.

Especially when your are talking about the "Mirrorless war"... Why exclude the reigning champion?

I agree with you that a large majority of Canon shooters would be better off moving to Sony in terms of technical results. I don’t think it is the case yet in terms of shooting experience.

In fact I feel that Nikon already did better than Sony with the Z6/7 on that front.

Yes, it is subjective but many share the same feeling.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #207 on: December 29, 2018, 01:14:10 am »

I don’t think they are meaningless at all if you try to understand them.

They are focusing on cameras newly introduced in 2018 I believe.

They very clearly convey the lukewarm welcome of the Canon R.

A few months back a majority of observers were deeply convinced that Canon would hit it out of the park with their new super strategic mirrorless offering.

And Canon marketing is still desperately trying to convince the world that they have...  ;D

The reality is vastly different.

As far as the comparison of Nikon to Sony (topics that you brought in), I see the a7rIII as the best mirrorless body for applications where AF matters and the Z7 as the best for all other applications, including landscape, still, architecture,... and the R is... best at nothing... just a mirrorless platform for Canon users still hoping that their heavy investment in excellent glass will some day be rewarded by the release of cameras able to let them express fully their talent.

If you insist on adding DSLRs to this discussion then the D850 is indeed IMHO the best all rounder on the market.

I was reading yesterday discussions at FM about a world famous bird photographer having moved to Nikon who was providing very detailed info about how the D5 (and D850) were ahead of the 1DxII (the 5DIV being far behind) in terms of auto-focus and about how happy he was about the Canon until he found out how much better the D5 is.  ;D

I feel for the many talented photographers who went the Canon route because it was the obvious one and now find themselves in the uncomfortable position to somehow have to defend a brand that has consistently let them down compared to competition for nearly 10 long years. And now Sony is adding another layer of frustration.

Cheers,
Bernard

Do you think photographers need to defend their equipment choice and feel uncomfortable about that if they use Canon? That’s just weird. Take a good photo, that’s all that matters. That’s all the defense you need if you think it’s some kind of war and you need to defend a position. To this day I cannot look at photographs and decide what camera must have been used. I can figure out film vs digital usually. Prints up to A2 I can’t even tell I’d it was micro four thirds or MFDB. I certainly couldn’t look at images
 Taken on a Canon R, Sony A7 whatever or a Nikon Z whatever and tell you the better image was clearly a Nikon.

With this odd idea we get back to choosing our commercial photographers based on equipment I suppose.
What is really strange is all the articles telling me an iPhone is good enough and on the other hand the opinions that the minute differences between Canon and Nikon matter a dam. Which is it?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #208 on: December 29, 2018, 07:49:14 am »

Quick answers:
- I agree they shouldn’t but many do,
- In many cases, in particular BIF/action, this is about hit ratio. The story is in the great moments that could not be captured because of inferior gear. Looking at the pictures that were taken is only part of the story and those are not tiny differences,
- if you think all equipment is the same why bother commenting in a thread dedicated to gear discussion m?
- the iphone is progressing fast and producing incredibly good results for some types of photography, putting at huge risk the top line of camera companies relying on liw end DSLRs, but I don’t believe you truly think it is able to compete for serious photography against top interchangeable camera, do you?

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #209 on: December 29, 2018, 12:38:58 pm »

Quick answers:
- I agree they shouldn’t but many do,
- In many cases, in particular BIF/action, this is about hit ratio. The story is in the great moments that could not be captured because of inferior gear. Looking at the pictures that were taken is only part of the story and those are not tiny differences,
- if you think all equipment is the same why bother commenting in a thread dedicated to gear discussion m?
- the iphone is progressing fast and producing incredibly good results for some types of photography, putting at huge risk the top line of camera companies relying on liw end DSLRs, but I don’t believe you truly think it is able to compete for serious photography against top interchangeable camera, do you?

Cheers,
Bernard

Aren't we discussing Canon and Nikon mirrorless here? Their mirrorless system isn't even close to being an BIF system. I thought you were the one that wanted to keep on topic...so let's do that.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #210 on: December 29, 2018, 05:19:11 pm »

Aren't we discussing Canon and Nikon mirrorless here? Their mirrorless system isn't even close to being an BIF system. I thought you were the one that wanted to keep on topic...so let's do that.

Apologies, I don’t appreciate your tone... I’ll enjoy the beach instead.

Cheers,
Bernard

scooby70

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #211 on: December 29, 2018, 06:47:31 pm »

Ok...your thread. But I personally like looking and discussing cameras from the various manufactures rather than artificially limit what is discussed.

Especially when your are talking about the "Mirrorless war"... Why exclude the reigning champion?

Because it doesn't have the right badge.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #212 on: December 30, 2018, 12:18:17 am »

Because it doesn't have the right badge.

The 2 of you are the ones obsessed with Sony.

I just dislike the continued mediocrity of Canon.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #213 on: December 30, 2018, 01:27:11 pm »

The 2 of you are the ones obsessed with Sony.

I just dislike the continued mediocrity of Canon.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

Yeh...those poor Canon souls can't produce a decent image if their life depended on them.

Bernard...you are such a fanboi.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #214 on: December 31, 2018, 05:52:28 am »

Yeh...those poor Canon souls can't produce a decent image if their life depended on them.

Bernard...you are such a fanboi.

With a y please.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #215 on: December 31, 2018, 02:36:53 pm »

It puzzles me that some people are declaring the clear superiority of Sony over Canon and Nikon in EVF camera systems (on the basis mostly of the likely transient advantage of having been in that market longer) but then call it fanboyism to claim a technological advantage for Nikon’s cameras over Canon’s.
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Telecaster

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #216 on: December 31, 2018, 04:05:22 pm »

People often enjoy talking shit about stuff they neither own nor use. No skin in the game —> no need to take the talk seriously.

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #217 on: December 31, 2018, 04:48:30 pm »

Allow me to wish the people of good will at LL a wonderful year 2019 from a dream island in the Pacific!

Cheers,
Bernard

P.S.: I’d be able to illustrate this with a wonderful Z7 beach photo had Nikon’s braindead Snapbridge not let me down again... ;)

Stephen Scharf

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #218 on: January 01, 2019, 04:21:32 pm »

I don't know why this has to be discussed as a "war".

With respect to current "winners".....a tidbit of info that may be of interest is that the EOS R is being rented 2:1 over the Nikon Z at LensRentals.

Over time, for example, the next 3-5 years, Canon will become dominant seller, just as they have been for decades; the installed base is just too large.

Oh, and BTW, the best selling mirrorless of 2018 was the EOS M.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #219 on: January 01, 2019, 04:25:27 pm »

I don't know why this has to be discussed as a "war".

With respect to current "winners".....a tidbit of info that may be of interest is that the EOS R is being rented 2:1 over the Nikon Z at LensRentals.

Better to rent first when you have doubts as to whether the camera delivers value. ;)

It isn’t a war for photographers, but it is one for the manufacturers.

Cheers,
Bernard
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