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Author Topic: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?  (Read 52691 times)

Telecaster

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2018, 04:48:28 pm »

The other way to look at it is Fuji releases half baked cameras that require additional functionality with FW releases. Personally i’d rather purchase cameras fully featured from the get go than waiting for additional features in some future FW.

This is IMO post-hoc rationalizing. If you're a CaNikon fan you "appreciate the extra care taken to get things right before releasing new gear," downplaying whatever flaws (software or hardware) that gear may have upon release. If you're a Fuji fan you "appreciate the company's extra attention to fixing bugs and adding features," downplaying the sometimes incomplete or underperforming (AF in early cameras) state of the firmware in new gear releases.

(If you're a Sony fan you get to be annoyed both by firmware bugs/missing features and the company's lack of haste in fixing/adding 'em.  ;D )

-Dave-
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hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2018, 09:32:03 pm »

The Fujis are full featured when released. The updates add some features, none of which are monumental, and some find useful. I haven't updated my XE2 or XT2 to the latest version firmware, the XE2 because it changes the way some things are handled that I like as-is, and the XT2 because the changes are minor and I haven't felt the need. I was perfectly happy with both cameras as released. If you think the Fuji cameras are "half-baked" when released, you obviously don't have much experience with them. Nikon, Canon, and Sony also make nice cameras, but each model has a thread on this and other forums containing firmware upgrade wish lists. Good luck with that. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Well if new features are brought to Fuji cameras with just firmware releases...why weren't those features in the camera from the beginning? Why does one have to wait a year or so to get the features? I can understand if hardware is the limiting factors...but adding some features or in fact quite often fixing existing features via firmware a year later and then bowing down to Fuji for this seems a bit much. Why weren't those features in the camera from the start?
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scooby70

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2018, 05:56:51 am »

I used to be into HiFi and I remember years ago when CD's were quite new to the market the established hifi brands didn't/couldn't make them. One company had an answer, they bought in Philips CD players, took the casing off and threw it away and put the electronics and mechanism in their own case and voilà! They had a CD player! and of course it got better reviews than the Philips because it was made by a specialist and respected hifi company.

We've seen the same thing in camera land with Leica reboxing Panasonic cameras and the faithful being more than willing to spend 2 or 3 times the price for a new case and a different badge and I do wonder if Canon and Nikon could have done a little better than bringing out their own mirrorless cameras if they'd bought up Sony's A7III production and got them recased.

Just a thought :D
 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2018, 06:42:26 am »

The thing is that Sony’s TVs have better image quality compared to the equivalent LG TV using the same LG OLED panel... when Nikon was using Sony sensors they were typically getting better colors and DR from them than the corresponding Sony camera,...

There is always more to an end product performance than the single components it is made of.

Cheers,
Bernard

faberryman

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2018, 07:14:33 am »

Well if new features are brought to Fuji cameras with just firmware releases...why weren't those features in the camera from the beginning? Why does one have to wait a year or so to get the features? I can understand if hardware is the limiting factors...but adding some features or in fact quite often fixing existing features via firmware a year later and then bowing down to Fuji for this seems a bit much. Why weren't those features in the camera from the start?
Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. You pays your money and takes your choice.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:50:25 am by faberryman »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2018, 08:41:06 am »

Hmm ... the ultimate winner may be different if the rumours of a Canon 75mpix body are true.
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armand

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2018, 10:34:14 am »

Well if new features are brought to Fuji cameras with just firmware releases...why weren't those features in the camera from the beginning? Why does one have to wait a year or so to get the features? I can understand if hardware is the limiting factors...but adding some features or in fact quite often fixing existing features via firmware a year later and then bowing down to Fuji for this seems a bit much. Why weren't those features in the camera from the start?

Sometimes it takes a long time to make some of those features work properly while they still have a functional camera available. Some of those updates are after extensive use and user feedback, this happens with all cameras released but only some companies make the changes.
The focus improvements means they kept changing and finessing the algorithms. Take Nikon Z7, the focus is functional but far from top of the class. I’m sure it can be improved further, good luck getting Nikon to do it particularly if they plan to release a higher level body with better focus.

Will I want to have all those features from the beginning? Sure. I’ll take the subsequent improvements any day over “the camera that you bought is the camera that you will have, period” of Nikon and others.

PS. All the Fujis that I’ve bought have been good enough for me from day one, the improvements were bonus

kers

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2018, 01:19:38 pm »

.. Take Nikon Z7, the focus is functional but far from top of the class. I’m sure it can be improved further, good luck getting Nikon to do it particularly if they plan to release a higher level body with better focus...
I  read (blog Jim Kasson) the Z6 has better low light focus simply because sensorpixels are greater and capture more light.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2018, 01:46:33 pm »

Hmm ... the ultimate winner may be different if the rumours of a Canon 75mpix body are true.

Same old game they have been playing for 10 years... there is always a next magical camera down the road.

Cheers,
Bernard

John Hollenberg

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2018, 02:06:13 pm »

Same old game they have been playing for 10 years... there is always a next magical camera down the road.

...and still waiting (but not with bated breath) to see if said magical camera will have dynamic range matching Sony/Nikon.
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hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2018, 06:15:02 pm »

Same old game they have been playing for 10 years... there is always a next magical camera down the road.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sort of like Nikon's mirrorless offering that came out a couple years late...always that promise down the road.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2018, 07:22:30 pm »

Sort of like Nikon's mirrorless offering that came out a couple years late...always that promise down the road.

At least Nikon has a proven track record in DSLRs and they never had to leak fake or far fetched info to keep on board customers disappointed with the currently shipping cameras. ;)

The timing of they mirrorless entry was certainly late, but they still have the overall best performing camera, the D850, on their catalog, and the Z6/Z7 are much more competitive bodies.

Canon has nothing remotely appealing to offer either in DSLRs or mirrorless unless you are invested in Canon lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2018, 07:47:53 pm »


Canon has nothing remotely appealing to offer either in DSLRs or mirrorless unless you are invested in Canon lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

Should not the same be said about Nikon's mirrorless cameras. If one is not vested in Nikon lenses...why would one choose a Nikon mirrorless over a Sony mirrorless today? I see Nikon's mirrorless as a good first attempt...but with Sony, we get their 3rd generations mirrorless with the more fine tuned feature set at 1st generation prices.
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faberryman

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2018, 08:30:23 pm »

Canon has nothing remotely appealing to offer either in DSLRs or mirrorless unless you are invested in Canon lenses.
The thing is there are a lot of photographers who are heavily invested in Canon lenses.
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kers

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2018, 09:25:57 pm »

The thing is there are a lot of photographers who are heavily invested in Canon lenses.
For the first time these can be used with a Nikon camera...
The Z's could possibly accept any lens if the converter exists.
I would love to use a Z7 with the 23mm MF fuji lens or the 21mm hasselblad lens and a shift converter in between.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 03:07:35 am by kers »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2018, 10:22:18 pm »

Should not the same be said about Nikon's mirrorless cameras. If one is not vested in Nikon lenses...why would one choose a Nikon mirrorless over a Sony mirrorless today? I see Nikon's mirrorless as a good first attempt...but with Sony, we get their 3rd generations mirrorless with the more fine tuned feature set at 1st generation prices.

A lot less so.

Frankly, eye AF and better tracking are the only significant features I wish the Z7 had compared to an a7rIII.

For the rest I find the Nikon equal or superior.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2018, 10:23:55 pm »

The thing is there are a lot of photographers who are heavily invested in Canon lenses.

Certainly and many excellent lenses.

Now, how many years to you keep waiting for competitive cameras to mount your lenses on?

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2018, 10:43:21 pm »

A lot less so.

Frankly, eye AF and better tracking are the only significant features I wish the Z7 had compared to an a7rIII.

For the rest I find the Nikon equal or superior.

Cheers,
Bernard

I've not used the Z7, but things like buffer depth and speed of clearing the buffer and fps reduced greatly make the Z7 more of a niche camera than an all around one. I've used the A7R3 for travel, landscape and sports and it excels at all these, making it a better more flexible setup.

I've also read about banding issues with the images and excessive viewfinder blackout when taking images.

Seems like a 1st generation camera which needs to be improved on in some areas...but then I used the original A7R to take nice images so I can see where you are coming from...but it ain't no A7R3 by any stretch.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2018, 10:48:04 pm »

I read that Sony has rollled out a substantial firmware update in the last week for the a7riii and ariii giving better performance with adapted lenses and much better auto focus with native lenses.
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