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Author Topic: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?  (Read 4771 times)

enduser

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2018, 07:45:56 pm »

You can get a tank printer from Epson that is topped up with Epson pigment ink.  There is also possibly a Canon or Epson tank model using their long-life dyes.  If so, buy the relevant bottles and refill existing printer carts with OEM product. ( Current HP dyes are below good third party dyes in lightfastness.)
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MHMG

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2018, 08:43:04 pm »

... ( Current HP dyes are below good third party dyes in lightfastness.)

I'm not aware of this. Can you cite any pertinent test results showing HP Vivera dyes to be inferior to any specific third party dye set?

kind regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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enduser

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 09:22:51 pm »

Don't have test results but watching general fading of hanging works leads me to believe that the South Korean InkTec product might be a bit better.  It's all maybe and might, nothing remotely scientific, but I couldn't see anything about the HP product that was worth the extra price.  On their website www.inktec.com you can see they are no "johnny-come-lately" to the digital printing world. They also produce a line of printers.
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 09:29:43 am »

You can get a tank printer from Epson that is topped up with Epson pigment ink.  There is also possibly a Canon or Epson tank model using their long-life dyes.  If so, buy the relevant bottles and refill existing printer carts with OEM product. ( Current HP dyes are below good third party dyes in lightfastness.)

I'd bet $1000 that the Epson EcoTank printers and Canon MegaTank printers do not use, respectively, Epson Claria HD or Canon ChromaLife 100+ high-quality photo dye inks, and instead use much cheaper / lesser-performing inks. Also, most of these models are four-color only, although a few may be six-color, so for people used to eight to twelve colors of ink, you'd be getting lesser performance there.
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enduser

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 08:31:54 pm »

Correct, in fact they appear to have even worse dyes than their cartridges contain so far as fade  goes. But the Epson Workforce range use bottles of Epson Durabrite Ultra Pigment ink. As yet only three colors and black. The Canon Chromalife 100+ isn't even available in anything but tiny cartridges.
It's an evolving market with high growth towards tank re-filling. With Epson pigment now available in bottles,they won't be the only supplier to offer this.
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John Caldwell

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2018, 06:53:35 am »

The Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic, or the Moab Slickrock, work well for the right images of mine. As others have said, multiple brands of metallic surfaces are more similar than they are different. Normally after mounting I laminate metallic papers with a high gloss laminate to maximize contrast, color and sharpness. While not *serious art* the results are pretty dramatic when applied to the proper image, being displayed in a proper way.

John-
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eternal camper

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2018, 10:20:31 am »

The Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic, or the Moab Slickrock, work well for the right images of mine. As others have said, multiple brands of metallic surfaces are more similar than they are different. Normally after mounting I laminate metallic papers with a high gloss laminate to maximize contrast, color and sharpness. While not *serious art* the results are pretty dramatic when applied to the proper image, being displayed in a proper way.

John-

John, I am very interested in knowing what high gloss laminate that you use and what do you consider to be "the proper image, being displayed in a proper way" as I have just purchased a few rolls of Red River 66 lb. Polar Pearl Metallic and would appreciate how to get the best looking print from it>

I also see a few other metallic papers listed above and may try a few and compare to the Red River I am using

Stephen

Stephen
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Scho

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2018, 11:11:02 am »

Satin tone & texture and Photo Rag Metallic tone and texture are different. Let us know what you think once you've tried it.

Finally received some Photo Rag Metallic.  Very nice surface and texture.  I like the results even more than the HPR Satin.  Also, just started printing with ImagePrint Black and they now have profiles for the photo rag metallic.
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narikin

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 12:06:15 pm »

Finally received some Photo Rag Metallic.  Very nice surface and texture.  I like the results even more than the HPR Satin.  Also, just started printing with ImagePrint Black and they now have profiles for the photo rag metallic.

Oof, I got samples at Photo East and didn't love the surface. Very stippled/ textured. Mark has a photo of this in his review - its very noticeable.

Glad to hear others like this, but it's not for me.

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149113

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2018, 12:56:06 pm »

The third option if you want to save some money is Oriental Graphica high Gloss White Film. I could tell no difference from the Pictorico and it is substantially  cheaper. Pictorico for 20 13x19 sheets is $155.80 on Amazon and the Oriental is $17.60 for 20 sheeets of 13x19.

Does the Oriental Graphica high Gloss White Film come in larger roll sizes? Outside of Amazon finding any information about this paper seems to be a challenge. Even doing a search direct on Amazon yields very little info. Is it sold under a different name?
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mearussi

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2018, 02:41:06 pm »

Does the Oriental Graphica high Gloss White Film come in larger roll sizes? Outside of Amazon finding any information about this paper seems to be a challenge. Even doing a search direct on Amazon yields very little info. Is it sold under a different name?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/745909-REG/Pictorico_PPF150_4239_2_PRO_Hi_Gloss_White_Film.html
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stockjock

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2018, 06:46:10 pm »

Does the Oriental Graphica high Gloss White Film come in larger roll sizes? Outside of Amazon finding any information about this paper seems to be a challenge. Even doing a search direct on Amazon yields very little info. Is it sold under a different name?

Not sure how big is large for you but the Oriental Graphica High Gloss White Film is available from Amazon in a 36"x66' roll for $43.  Amazing price. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HLSRSDG/?coliid=IQOXQWHTYRPIZ&colid=1KDK9TFQHW1AV&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Amazon is the only place I have seen this product sold and I think it would be reasonable to assume it is either discontinued or no longer offered in the US>

After Dan's original post on this product I bought the 13x19" size and the 17" roll of this product.  It is really great in the Canon Pixma Pro-100.  Very shiny pure white surface with great depth and colors and no gloss differential with this dye printer.  Using the 17" roll version of the High Gloss White Film with my Canon iPF8400 gives very different results.  With pigment inks the gloss differential is fairly extreme and the printed surface looses its sheen and no longer gives that sense of depth.  It still prints well but you aren't getting that Ilfochrome feeling that the Pro-100 gives you.

I would be very interested in hearing from anybody that has tried this stuff with one of the newer pigment printers that uses a gloss optimizer.
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149113

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2018, 08:41:36 pm »

Not sure how big is large for you but the Oriental Graphica High Gloss White Film is available from Amazon in a 36"x66' roll for $43.  Amazing price. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HLSRSDG/?coliid=IQOXQWHTYRPIZ&colid=1KDK9TFQHW1AV&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Amazon is the only place I have seen this product sold and I think it would be reasonable to assume it is either discontinued or no longer offered in the US>

After Dan's original post on this product I bought the 13x19" size and the 17" roll of this product.  It is really great in the Canon Pixma Pro-100.  Very shiny pure white surface with great depth and colors and no gloss differential with this dye printer.  Using the 17" roll version of the High Gloss White Film with my Canon iPF8400 gives very different results.  With pigment inks the gloss differential is fairly extreme and the printed surface looses its sheen and no longer gives that sense of depth.  It still prints well but you aren't getting that Ilfochrome feeling that the Pro-100 gives you.

I would be very interested in hearing from anybody that has tried this stuff with one of the newer pigment printers that uses a gloss optimizer.

Thanks. I plan to try it on a Z3200ps with gloss opt set to ON. I'll post results
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Randy Carone

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2018, 09:39:50 am »

For the ultimate faux Cibachrome, try laminating the Pictorico GWF with a thin, clear polyester laminate. I did a few some years ago and they are amazing. Dan Berg, didn't you do some of these when we used to do business together?
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Randy Carone

dgberg

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2018, 10:52:52 am »

I sure did. Used the Seal polyester hi-gloss. Just a real pain to do. That particular laminate is highly charged with static and seems to draw dust from a mile away.
I tried everything including purchasing the Kinetronics Ionizing Air Gun which did help a little.
50% throw away rate which is way too high to make any money.
Gotta have a clean room for gloss polyester and I mean clean.
But you are right when you get one right they are amazing.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 11:02:27 am by Dan Berg »
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Randy Carone

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 12:44:13 pm »

I don't recall having that problem. I must have done them on a humid day and I always handled media using anti-stat gloves and rag to gently wipe the substrate and cheap laminator rollers. I no longer have access to the equipment so the few I have are keepers. ;)
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Randy Carone

dgberg

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2018, 01:04:30 pm »

We got plenty of keepers too.
Just a little too much effort for the reward.

Randy Carone

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2018, 04:14:36 pm »

Oh, the days of someone else paying for my efforts.  ;)
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Randy Carone

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Glossy Metallic's in 2018 - any better than they used to be?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2018, 03:29:08 am »

I sure did. Used the Seal polyester hi-gloss. Just a real pain to do. That particular laminate is highly charged with static and seems to draw dust from a mile away.
I tried everything including purchasing the Kinetronics Ionizing Air Gun which did help a little.
50% throw away rate which is way too high to make any money.
Gotta have a clean room for gloss polyester and I mean clean.
But you are right when you get one right they are amazing.

For silkscreen printing of transparent inks on polycarbonate I used two opposing silicone rollers to pull the sheets through and right after that two Simco anti-static brushes. Simco anti-static blower over the rolling suction table, an anti-static bar behind the squeegees so above the inks. Humidity kept high. Removing the protection foil at one side off the stacked sheets first and right away through the silicone rollers + brushes to another stack. After that again when printing.

I guess two anti-static bars, one above and one below the foil is the way to go.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plo
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