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Author Topic: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?  (Read 24616 times)

elliot_n

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Re: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?
« Reply #260 on: October 18, 2018, 09:17:20 am »

Would this printer resolution test image be a good test for the 8 or 16 bit quest?

Where can I find this image?
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Daverich

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Re: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?
« Reply #261 on: October 18, 2018, 04:48:48 pm »

3. I'd submit that such testing at the very least should be done, on the Mac (for Epson) using a driver that specifically has this check box because newer drivers have no such option and despite my questions to Epson, I haven't received an answer if the newer drivers still pass all high bit to the driver or not. I kind of suspect not, here's why and yes, it's a massive assumption: the high bit check box wasn't available on Windows. This probably didn't make Windows user aware of this happy. It makes some sense to remove it on the Mac as they've done with my P800. That doesn't mean on either Mac or Windows, newer drivers don't 'detect' 16-bit and pass it along if found. But since no one here has provided much proof it makes a visual difference, it would make some sense to simply make it all disappear.

Is there any chance that the missing 16 bit checkbox has something to do with the current version of Photoshop?  My Epson P5000 is on driver 10.18 which is the most recent one on Epson’s web site and the checkbox is available when I print. However, I’m still using CS6 and I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not. Also, High Sierra on my Mac if that matters.
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Sbarroso

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Re: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?
« Reply #262 on: October 18, 2018, 07:05:10 pm »

LR does NOT send 16 data to the Canon Pixma Pro 1 - XPS driver run on Windows. ( I think this is conflict of interests of Adobe vs MSFT around xps format). I have seen banding in BW using this configuration.

The turn around to print 16 bits is to use the Canon print studio pro plug in. LR exports 16 bits files into it, so the xps driver gets all the 16 bits data. No banding if you do so.

I did not recheck lastly, but I think PS results were something intermediate, may be due to dithering.
I commented on this in an earlier post.  The LR checkbox is the instruction for LR to send 16 bit data to the print driver.  To print at 16 bits you need to have both the LR and driver checked to accomplish this.  LR for Windows does not have a 16 bit check box.  I'm still on the old LR 6 as I have not bought into the subscription service yet.  However, from what I've seen in some Internet research the current version of LR for WinOS does not have this feature yet.  As noted also, only one Canon printer that I've found supports 16 bit printing under WinOS and you need to make sure that the Canon XPS driver is installed.  Here is the most current comment on LR from the Queen herself:  https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/16-bit-printing-in-windows-10

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Doug Gray

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Re: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?
« Reply #263 on: October 18, 2018, 07:10:46 pm »

Does it? Even if it does, one can still test this by:
1. Convert in high bit to the output color space to avoid dither, print the image in the output color space using ACPU, an older version of Photoshop that allows this or another utility similar to ACPU.
2. Keep everything in 16-bit, turn off the 16-bit check box in the printer dialog box.
3. I'd submit that such testing at the very least should be done, on the Mac (for Epson) using a driver that specifically has this check box because newer drivers have no such option and despite my questions to Epson, I haven't received an answer if the newer drivers still pass all high bit to the driver or not. I kind of suspect not, here's why and yes, it's a massive assumption: the high bit check box wasn't available on Windows. This probably didn't make Windows user aware of this happy. It makes some sense to remove it on the Mac as they've done with my P800. That doesn't mean on either Mac or Windows, newer drivers don't 'detect' 16-bit and pass it along if found. But since no one here has provided much proof it makes a visual difference, it would make some sense to simply make it all disappear.
YEARS ago when I was working on the Epson Print Academy I asked the product manager in the US for pro printers why the check box was there if I couldn’t see any difference. He said that 'someday' in the future, the printers might be able to use this additional data and it could be seen on output. I don't believe that day's arrived yet.

Can't speak to the Mac, but LR Classic automatically dithers high bit images when printing. I'm not aware of any option in LR. It just does it. It's effectively the same as printing with a 16 bit path, even on torture images like the "black ball."

Also, it does a fine job of properly using the 30 bit video driver on my system.

As an aside, I was looking at the yellow dot ink laydown (hooray for scanners) on my 9800 between RGB 255,255,255 and 255,255,254. For ducks I also looked at 255,255,254.5 and printed with dither selected from Photoshop w/o CM so the dither is applied directly to the printer. (The 9800 is an 8 bit only device)

Turns out that in a square of 50x50 "720 DPI pixel spaces" there are only about 50 yellow ink dots randomly scattered and half that for the fractional RGB that would be dithered by PS. So the print driver is already, on 8 bit image paths, broadly dithering where it drops ink. I'd bet the plugin Canon uses with XPS on Win. just dithers the fractional and sends the data to the Win. driver too. This is all just marketing IMO. It reminds me of audiophiles with "golden ears" but give them an A/B test.....

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:05:21 pm by Doug Gray »
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dchew

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Re: How to test if a print was made at 16 bit?
« Reply #264 on: October 19, 2018, 08:42:29 am »

...So anyone with this printer on Mac running Mojave can test this without the need of a Spectrophotometer. Look at greens. The lowest dE is a middle gray (0.21). So the black ball is in an area of color space (neutrals so to speak) where the color differences are the least. The driver I'm using for the Mac is 9.33, I can't find anything newer.
Odd, very very odd!

Andrew,
It sounds like you've completed your investigation (although I found it a bit difficult to follow this thread). I don't have a 3880 but I do have a 7900, along with Mojave, LR/PS CC 2019 updated yesterday, eye one pro (not 2) / iprofiler, and ColorThink Pro. If there are any tests that would help I could do them over the weekend.

I also have ImagePrint, if an additional test through an independent driver would provide any insight.

Dave
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