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Author Topic: Zeiss new camera  (Read 1963 times)

BJL

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 06:33:32 PM »

The ZX1 does not have cellular data connection, only WiFi and Bluetooth. So I think of it as a 512GB iPod Touch with some enhancements to the camera. To ďshareĒ those edits away from WiFi, you would need to pair to a cell-phone; I would rather do any field editing on that phone, which these days can have a bigger screen than 4.3Ē

But The EVF is great, if the 1920x1080 spec is correct


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 07:40:20 PM »

Exactly my thought.

All the recent DSLR and mirrorless can easily share a selection of images to a smartphone that is the logical device to edit, manage and share.

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Bernard

Telecaster

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 04:15:36 PM »

All the recent DSLR and mirrorless can easily share a selection of images to a smartphone that is the logical device to edit, manage and share.

Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.

Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.

-Dave-
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D Fuller

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 05:38:48 PM »

Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.

Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.

-Dave-

I have to say I donít think this device gets it right. To me, itís too big for what it is, and itís not connected without another device. I think both of those work against it. But what do I know?

That said, itís an interesting conceptóand itís curious that Zeiss, of all companies, should decide to go with this. But itís going to take some real effort to make this concept work. (Making the camera is the easy part. Getting it through the cellular certification monopoly minefield is more difficult for an optics company.)

I think this has more in common with the Red Hydrogen project than anything else Iíve seen. Both are playing in the connected camera space, but with very different takes. At this moment, I think the Red device has a better chance of becoming something other than a footnote in the history of the camera.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 08:44:24 PM by D Fuller »
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DougDolde

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 06:56:55 PM »

To me it looks like an advanced more modern (and bigger) Leica Q, though I'd rather 28mm than 35mm
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 07:01:43 PM by DougDolde »
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chez

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2018, 07:01:31 PM »

Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.

Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.

-Dave-

Totally agree with you Dave. Zeiss might not have it quite right...but at least they have the balls to lead the pack forward rather than creating vintage cameras full of dials.
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Telecaster

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2018, 02:43:12 PM »

I have to say I donít think this device gets it right. To me, itís too big for what it is, and itís not connected without another device. I think both of those work against it. But what do I know?

That said, itís an interesting conceptóand itís curious that Zeiss, of all companies, should decide to go with this. But itís going to take some real effort to make this concept work. (Making the camera is the easy part. Getting it through the cellular certification monopoly minefield is more difficult for an optics company.)

I think this has more in common with the Red Hydrogen project than anything else Iíve seen. Both are playing in the connected camera space, but with very different takes. At this moment, I think the Red device has a better chance of becoming something other than a footnote in the history of the camera.

The Zeiss camera will have wifi capability and so won't need an additional device when connecting to wifi networks. No cell, though, and so the need to use a smartdevice as a wifi hotspot in the absence of other wifi options.

I also expect the camera will be more a curiosity than a gamechanger. But I also think it's inevitable that someone will release "the one" that shakes things up. Like music players prior to the iPod and PDAs prior to the iPhone. The concepts were already in the airÖit just took the right implementation (and marketing).

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2018, 05:56:26 PM »

Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.

The camera makers will get their butt kicked regardless.

All non high end dedicated cameras are doomed.

For the highend subsegment, the name of the game will be smooth integration with a smartphone, possibly without even touching the phone in some scenarios.

All dedicated screens are going away in favour of a single device, adding editing capability back to cameras is going against the flow IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard

faberryman

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2018, 06:09:36 PM »

I know the ZX1 has WiFi capability, but does it have a browser, and is it able to upload images directly to Facebook, Instagram, and other social media. If you have to upload them to your laptop or phone first, what is the advantage of editing in camera with a version of LR that will be outdated before the camera is released?
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BJL

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 06:47:11 PM »

All non high end dedicated cameras are doomed.

For the highend subsegment, the name of the game will be smooth integration with a smartphone, possibly without even touching the phone in some scenarios.
On the first point I sort of agree, but my standard of ďhigh endĒ is ďfar greater zoom reach and light gathering speed than can fit into a go-everywhere device like a phoneĒ. And even an entry level MFT kit with two zoom lenses or a single wide/ranging zoom is far beyond what a few tiny-lens cameras in a phone can do. Software can not overcome the fundamental ďphoton shortageĒ of tiny cameras: the latest so-called telephoto lenses in high-end phones are equivalent to about a 26mm f/7 prime in MFT or 30mm f/9 in 24x16mm format.

You might be right on the second point; I would hope for future ILCs to at least work with phones as smoothly as smart watches do; phone in pocket till you want its big screen and powerful processing hardware and software


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D Fuller

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2018, 08:43:52 PM »

The Zeiss camera will have wifi capability and so won't need an additional device when connecting to wifi networks. No cell, though, and so the need to use a smartdevice as a wifi hotspot in the absence of other wifi options.

I also expect the camera will be more a curiosity than a gamechanger. But I also think it's inevitable that someone will release "the one" that shakes things up. Like music players prior to the iPod and PDAs prior to the iPhone. The concepts were already in the airÖit just took the right implementation (and marketing).

-Dave-

In the materials Iíve seen so far, it appears that it does not have social media connectivity, but rather hooks to cloud storage like Dropbox and the like. With Android, itís seems possible to have a browser as well, but I havenít seen any evidence of that thus far.

I agree that itís more of an exploratory device than game changer. In fact, I think itís a device that explores wihat the game really is, and for that itís quite interesting.
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DougDolde

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2018, 01:32:23 PM »

I know the ZX1 has WiFi capability, but does it have a browser, and is it able to upload images directly to Facebook, Instagram, and other social media. If you have to upload them to your laptop or phone first, what is the advantage of editing in camera with a version of LR that will be outdated before the camera is released?

No it just uses your phone to make the connection. IOW the phone is a mobile hot spot but the camera uploads directly once you have the connection
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chez

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2018, 01:34:26 PM »

In the materials Iíve seen so far, it appears that it does not have social media connectivity, but rather hooks to cloud storage like Dropbox and the like. With Android, itís seems possible to have a browser as well, but I havenít seen any evidence of that thus far.

I agree that itís more of an exploratory device than game changer. In fact, I think itís a device that explores wihat the game really is, and for that itís quite interesting.

I read somewhere that Zeiss says it will connect directly to the popular social media sites in order to upload images. Not sure which ones and if down the road they will be expanded.
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Telecaster

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2018, 05:51:45 PM »

One of the ZX1 photos I've seen shows the rear screen in the midst of a firmware update, with the camera itself downloading the update file. This, at the very least, is IMO something all cameras in 2018 should be capable of doing. That none can (the Zeiss doesn't countÖit's not an actual product yet) is but one thing that tells me a reality adjustment is coming.

-Dave-
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faberryman

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2018, 06:11:15 PM »

One of the ZX1 photos I've seen shows the rear screen in the midst of a firmware update, with the camera itself downloading the update file. This, at the very least, is IMO something all cameras in 2018 should be capable of doing. That none can (the Zeiss doesn't count…it's not an actual product yet) is but one thing that tells me a reality adjustment is coming.
I've been doing firmware updates to my two digital cameras using SD cards for years. The ZX1 doesn't have an SD card slot so it has to do them wirelessly. Either way, you have to download the update to another device on your WiFi network before updating the camera. I don't see this development as a big deal. Certainly no reality adjustment is necessary.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 06:35:49 PM by faberryman »
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Telecaster

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2018, 04:15:18 PM »

I've been doing firmware updates to my two digital cameras using SD cards for years. The ZX1 doesn't have an SD card slot so it has to do them wirelessly. Either way, you have to download the update to another device on your WiFi network before updating the camera. I don't see this development as a big deal. Certainly no reality adjustment is necessary.

I'm pretty darn sure the ZX1 needs no *intermediary device. It's a WiFi-enabled computer running Android with a sensor & lens attached. My TV also runs on AndroidÖit downloads OS updates via my home WiFi network all by itself. All I have to do is OK (or decline/postpone if I so choose) the update process.

-Dave-

*Unless you're counting a WiFi broadcaster as an "intermediary." But, using that logic, even a cel-equipped device requires a cellular network, with its own broadcasting devices, to talk to the rest of the world.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 04:29:15 PM by Telecaster »
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Rob C

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 06:16:53 AM »

If I understand this idea correctly, does it imply that you have to use the camera's memory to gather your shots, and once full, you have to find another device to which to unload it all?

In other words, unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera. If the lens is as good as one might expect from that maker, then surely it is a more serious camera than one just meant to replace a cellphone camera as means of sending images of your exotic lunch to your friends back at the ranch.

It was bad enough losing transparencies and b/w film as hard copies, but not even having a full card to show for it all...

All in all, I see these developments as an irreversible charge into less and less control of our lives remaning within our own hands. It is probably a generational thing, this latent resistance to external authority over one, but that said, there was something rewarding about having a say in your own options and decisions.

Rob

opgr

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 07:00:09 AM »

If I understand this idea correctly, does it imply that you have to use the camera's memory to gather your shots, and once full, you have to find another device to which to unload it all?

In other words, unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera. If the lens is as good as one might expect from that maker, then surely it is a more serious camera than one just meant to replace a cellphone camera as means of sending images of your exotic lunch to your friends back at the ranch.

It was bad enough losing transparencies and b/w film as hard copies, but not even having a full card to show for it all...

All in all, I see these developments as an irreversible charge into less and less control of our lives remaning within our own hands. It is probably a generational thing, this latent resistance to external authority over one, but that said, there was something rewarding about having a say in your own options and decisions.

Rob

The number of options has increased exponentially. You don't have to buy the camera per sť. Whether all those options are contributing anything meaningful to humanity is a different matter. Perhaps the next gen simply don't define their existence by pictures, despite all the selfies.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 07:02:24 AM »

... unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera...

Fair enough, Rob, but... you can run out of cards, or film in the old days, too, and then the photography has to stop just as well.

Bear in mind the capacity of the built-in memory: 512 Gb. Thatís ginormous. Equivalent to 6,800 RAW images, 50,000 jpegs (!). Or 188 film rolls (36 exposures) if you shoot negatives, or 1,388 Kodachrome rolls. Have you ever brought even 188 rolls of film with you for a shoot? How many hours that hand inspection at the airport would take? ;)

Rob C

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Re: Zeiss new camera
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 09:27:55 AM »

Fair enough, Rob, but... you can run out of cards, or film in the old days, too, and then the photography has to stop just as well.

Bear in mind the capacity of the built-in memory: 512 Gb. Thatís ginormous. Equivalent to 6,800 RAW images, 50,000 jpegs (!). Or 188 film rolls (36 exposures) if you shoot negatives, or 1,388 Kodachrome rolls. Have you ever brought even 188 rolls of film with you for a shoot? How many hours that hand inspection at the airport would take? ;)

Good numerical points, but I never ran out of film; one was always prepared. My argument would then step to the next level: so much riding on one memory? ;-)

Hand searches gave me a smile: in '79 I did my first Tennent's Lager calendar (for '80) in Mallorca. The security guys refused my hand-search request and indicated the sign saying the scanner was film-safe. I tried to explain the differences in film quality expectations but it meant nothing to them. In the end, one of the guys just picked up the whole film bag and pushed it into the machine... force majeure with a 9mm? The upshot was that some of my Kodachrome 64 pro films ended up with interesting khaki-coloured skin. Fortunately, the client watched the entire exchange of words, and enough material survived to enable the calendar without a reshoot, which for a first job with them, would probably have meant curtains.

But here's the thing: that was 1979, and I swore I'd never visit that cursed isle again. Less than two years later we were living there. Go figure; you can't: the island is magical. I think it's something deep within the mountains... On the other hand, I shot several jobs on Ibiza and couldn't wait to get off the bloody rock. Today, it would have been a far better bet for me, subject-wise, except for heath: when my wife was having her five-days-a-week radiotherapy in Palma, we used to chat with a German lady having the same treatment: she had to fly in from Ibiza every day for that treatment.

A link to a German fashion guy who lives there:

http://www.chicobialas.com/

Here's one I posted before, but can't get out of my mind. I wonder how many intrepid landscape photographers, used to carrying a ton of gear across their shoulder (like a honky-tonk woman), could survive a whole minute of this stuff at the same speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFWDGTVYqE8

I think I finally figured out the technique of doing a moon walk, but am forever to be defeated by the minor problems of coordination, strength and translation into rhythm. Maybe a workshop would have helped me develop timing and musical talent... right.

;-)





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