Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: alifatemi on September 28, 2018, 02:01:18 pm
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It seems that Zeiss has announced new mirrorless full frame camera. If anybody has any more elaborate detail leave here please. Release time?
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Supposedly out early-ish next year. No price info yet. The thing I like about it is wifi connectivity. The camera uses a version of Android as its OS, so networking stuff should work well. Apparently, though, it'll still require a smartdevice used as a wifi hotspot. At least initially…I see no technical reason why the camera won't be able to log into wifi networks directly. Just gotta enable that capability.
-Dave-
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And if the price andc quality are right, its going to be a serious rival of Leica M series. Small body with full frame sensore, very tepmting for street photographers...
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And if the price andc quality are right, its going to be a serious rival of Leica M series. Small body with full frame sensore, very tepmting for street photographers...
The body isn't overly small to say the least. The Sony Rx1RII is much more compact than the Zeiss.
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The body isn't overly small to say the least. The Sony Rx1RII is much more compact than the Zeiss.
Much more compact ? I've read this comment in a couple of posts and I find it an odd point to make.
The Zeiss camera measures 142x93x66mm
The SONY is 133X65.4X72mm
So the Ziess is 9mm ( 0.35 inches ) wider, 6mm ( 0.23 inches ) taller but 6mm shorter from the back of the body to the front of the lens.
Imagine holding a camera this size and then change your grip of the camera by 0.23 inches from your thumb to your little finger as you cradle it in your palm. It's barely perceivable.
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This camera is for me the most interesting anouncement.
what is interesting is the internal memory- 512Gb will be enough for almost everybody- no card slots and it could be very fast memory- USB-C for quick download.
also android as a operating system might bring more AI to the camera and image-making as well as better wireless connectivity. A weak point with most of the camera manufacturers.
In the end the price and quality will tell if it is a succes.
It is a daring move for Zeiss, but they have worked since long with Sony and produced many lenses for mobile phones so they have a lot of knowledge and contacts because of that.
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.. its going to be a serious rival of Leica M series...
Except it is a fixed-lens, single focal length camera.
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Much more compact ? I've read this comment in a couple of posts and I find it an odd point to make.
The Zeiss camera measures 142x93x66mm
The SONY is 133X65.4X72mm
So the Ziess is 9mm ( 0.35 inches ) wider, 6mm ( 0.23 inches ) taller but 6mm shorter from the back of the body to the front of the lens.
Imagine holding a camera this size and then change your grip of the camera by 0.23 inches from your thumb to your little finger as you cradle it in your palm. It's barely perceivable.
Here's a link that shows you the difference...not just a little different.
http://j.mp/2zEENEV
Your Sony figures are not correct...the length is not 133, but 113
Not only is the Zeiss quite a bit larger in size, but it also weighs almost 300gm more than the Sony.
Overall, a rather larger camera to carry around in the streets.
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Yep, it's not a small camera. But it does have a large screen, 4.3"…around the same size as my iPhone's, so it needs to be big enough to accommodate that. Hi-res EVF (1920x1080 RGB) too. Maybe it'll end up being the Contax T2 of the digicam world. :D
Edit: my iPhone's screen is closer to 6" diagonal.
-Dave-
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Your Sony figures are not correct...the length is not 133, but 113
Not only is the Zeiss quite a bit larger in size, but it also weighs almost 300gm more than the Sony.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
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(http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/uploads/images/miscellaneous/sonyrx1mii_zeisszx1.jpg)[/img]
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It is big as larg as D850 Almost! I think partly because of internal hd.
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I would compare it with the a7rIII and Z7.
About the same bulk and weight (and probably price).
A lot less capable IMHO.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It is big as larg as D850 Almost! I think partly because of internal hd.
It is not an internal HD. It is a flash memory chip, just like an SD card but without the plastic case so it is smaller.
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I would compare it with the a7rIII and Z7.
About the same bulk and weight (and probably price).
A lot less capable IMHO.
Cheers,
Bernard
Agreed: A Sony A7II or A7R with (Zeiss branded!) 35/1.8 lens are an almost perfect match for width, height and weight, and if there were a 35/2 Z mount lens, about the same would be true — even once you insert a 512GB card into one of those cameras. And those alternatives have IS along with the option of using many other lenses.
So a _lot_ depends on its "unique selling point" of in-camera editing on a screen that is smaller than many phones now have.
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PRICE will determine it's success.
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PRICE will determine it's success.
As can be said about virtually every camera.
Clearly they're going after a person who won't object to the cost, wants higher res than their phone and enjoys social media.
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So a _lot_ depends on its "unique selling point" of in-camera editing on a screen that is smaller than many phones now have.
IMO direct wifi connectivity is this camera's thing. Having Lightroom on board is nice enough but not surprising given the camera's Android OS. Maybe it'll run Chrome, Instagram, Facebook (ugh), etc. too.
-Dave-
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IMO direct wifi connectivity is this camera's thing. Having Lightroom on board is nice enough but not surprising given the camera's Android OS. Maybe it'll run Chrome, Instagram, Facebook (ugh), etc. too.
-Dave-
If you have nothing to shoot you can play some games :D
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If it can carry a simcard you have 4g to transfer your images as soon as you shot them.
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The ZX1 does not have cellular data connection, only WiFi and Bluetooth. So I think of it as a 512GB iPod Touch with some enhancements to the camera. To “share” those edits away from WiFi, you would need to pair to a cell-phone; I would rather do any field editing on that phone, which these days can have a bigger screen than 4.3”
But The EVF is great, if the 1920x1080 spec is correct
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Exactly my thought.
All the recent DSLR and mirrorless can easily share a selection of images to a smartphone that is the logical device to edit, manage and share.
Cheers,
Bernard
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All the recent DSLR and mirrorless can easily share a selection of images to a smartphone that is the logical device to edit, manage and share.
Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.
Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.
-Dave-
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Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.
Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.
-Dave-
I have to say I don’t think this device gets it right. To me, it’s too big for what it is, and it’s not connected without another device. I think both of those work against it. But what do I know?
That said, it’s an interesting concept—and it’s curious that Zeiss, of all companies, should decide to go with this. But it’s going to take some real effort to make this concept work. (Making the camera is the easy part. Getting it through the cellular certification monopoly minefield is more difficult for an optics company.)
I think this has more in common with the Red Hydrogen project than anything else I’ve seen. Both are playing in the connected camera space, but with very different takes. At this moment, I think the Red device has a better chance of becoming something other than a footnote in the history of the camera.
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To me it looks like an advanced more modern (and bigger) Leica Q, though I'd rather 28mm than 35mm
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Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.
Whether or not this particular camera gets it right enough to make an impact remains to be seen, but at least Zeiss is giving it a shot.
-Dave-
Totally agree with you Dave. Zeiss might not have it quite right...but at least they have the balls to lead the pack forward rather than creating vintage cameras full of dials.
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I have to say I don’t think this device gets it right. To me, it’s too big for what it is, and it’s not connected without another device. I think both of those work against it. But what do I know?
That said, it’s an interesting concept—and it’s curious that Zeiss, of all companies, should decide to go with this. But it’s going to take some real effort to make this concept work. (Making the camera is the easy part. Getting it through the cellular certification monopoly minefield is more difficult for an optics company.)
I think this has more in common with the Red Hydrogen project than anything else I’ve seen. Both are playing in the connected camera space, but with very different takes. At this moment, I think the Red device has a better chance of becoming something other than a footnote in the history of the camera.
The Zeiss camera will have wifi capability and so won't need an additional device when connecting to wifi networks. No cell, though, and so the need to use a smartdevice as a wifi hotspot in the absence of other wifi options.
I also expect the camera will be more a curiosity than a gamechanger. But I also think it's inevitable that someone will release "the one" that shakes things up. Like music players prior to the iPod and PDAs prior to the iPhone. The concepts were already in the air…it just took the right implementation (and marketing).
-Dave-
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Whereas I maintain that camera makers choosing not to acknowledge the desire for and benefits of all-in-one editing and uploading will have their butts handed to them in a sling by smartdevices.
The camera makers will get their butt kicked regardless.
All non high end dedicated cameras are doomed.
For the highend subsegment, the name of the game will be smooth integration with a smartphone, possibly without even touching the phone in some scenarios.
All dedicated screens are going away in favour of a single device, adding editing capability back to cameras is going against the flow IMHO.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I know the ZX1 has WiFi capability, but does it have a browser, and is it able to upload images directly to Facebook, Instagram, and other social media. If you have to upload them to your laptop or phone first, what is the advantage of editing in camera with a version of LR that will be outdated before the camera is released?
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All non high end dedicated cameras are doomed.
For the highend subsegment, the name of the game will be smooth integration with a smartphone, possibly without even touching the phone in some scenarios.
On the first point I sort of agree, but my standard of “high end” is “far greater zoom reach and light gathering speed than can fit into a go-everywhere device like a phone”. And even an entry level MFT kit with two zoom lenses or a single wide/ranging zoom is far beyond what a few tiny-lens cameras in a phone can do. Software can not overcome the fundamental “photon shortage” of tiny cameras: the latest so-called telephoto lenses in high-end phones are equivalent to about a 26mm f/7 prime in MFT or 30mm f/9 in 24x16mm format.
You might be right on the second point; I would hope for future ILCs to at least work with phones as smoothly as smart watches do; phone in pocket till you want its big screen and powerful processing hardware and software
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The Zeiss camera will have wifi capability and so won't need an additional device when connecting to wifi networks. No cell, though, and so the need to use a smartdevice as a wifi hotspot in the absence of other wifi options.
I also expect the camera will be more a curiosity than a gamechanger. But I also think it's inevitable that someone will release "the one" that shakes things up. Like music players prior to the iPod and PDAs prior to the iPhone. The concepts were already in the air…it just took the right implementation (and marketing).
-Dave-
In the materials I’ve seen so far, it appears that it does not have social media connectivity, but rather hooks to cloud storage like Dropbox and the like. With Android, it’s seems possible to have a browser as well, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that thus far.
I agree that it’s more of an exploratory device than game changer. In fact, I think it’s a device that explores wihat the game really is, and for that it’s quite interesting.
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I know the ZX1 has WiFi capability, but does it have a browser, and is it able to upload images directly to Facebook, Instagram, and other social media. If you have to upload them to your laptop or phone first, what is the advantage of editing in camera with a version of LR that will be outdated before the camera is released?
No it just uses your phone to make the connection. IOW the phone is a mobile hot spot but the camera uploads directly once you have the connection
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In the materials I’ve seen so far, it appears that it does not have social media connectivity, but rather hooks to cloud storage like Dropbox and the like. With Android, it’s seems possible to have a browser as well, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that thus far.
I agree that it’s more of an exploratory device than game changer. In fact, I think it’s a device that explores wihat the game really is, and for that it’s quite interesting.
I read somewhere that Zeiss says it will connect directly to the popular social media sites in order to upload images. Not sure which ones and if down the road they will be expanded.
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One of the ZX1 photos I've seen shows the rear screen in the midst of a firmware update, with the camera itself downloading the update file. This, at the very least, is IMO something all cameras in 2018 should be capable of doing. That none can (the Zeiss doesn't count…it's not an actual product yet) is but one thing that tells me a reality adjustment is coming.
-Dave-
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One of the ZX1 photos I've seen shows the rear screen in the midst of a firmware update, with the camera itself downloading the update file. This, at the very least, is IMO something all cameras in 2018 should be capable of doing. That none can (the Zeiss doesn't count…it's not an actual product yet) is but one thing that tells me a reality adjustment is coming.
I've been doing firmware updates to my two digital cameras using SD cards for years. The ZX1 doesn't have an SD card slot so it has to do them wirelessly. Either way, you have to download the update to another device on your WiFi network before updating the camera. I don't see this development as a big deal. Certainly no reality adjustment is necessary.
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I've been doing firmware updates to my two digital cameras using SD cards for years. The ZX1 doesn't have an SD card slot so it has to do them wirelessly. Either way, you have to download the update to another device on your WiFi network before updating the camera. I don't see this development as a big deal. Certainly no reality adjustment is necessary.
I'm pretty darn sure the ZX1 needs no *intermediary device. It's a WiFi-enabled computer running Android with a sensor & lens attached. My TV also runs on Android…it downloads OS updates via my home WiFi network all by itself. All I have to do is OK (or decline/postpone if I so choose) the update process.
-Dave-
*Unless you're counting a WiFi broadcaster as an "intermediary." But, using that logic, even a cel-equipped device requires a cellular network, with its own broadcasting devices, to talk to the rest of the world.
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If I understand this idea correctly, does it imply that you have to use the camera's memory to gather your shots, and once full, you have to find another device to which to unload it all?
In other words, unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera. If the lens is as good as one might expect from that maker, then surely it is a more serious camera than one just meant to replace a cellphone camera as means of sending images of your exotic lunch to your friends back at the ranch.
It was bad enough losing transparencies and b/w film as hard copies, but not even having a full card to show for it all...
All in all, I see these developments as an irreversible charge into less and less control of our lives remaning within our own hands. It is probably a generational thing, this latent resistance to external authority over one, but that said, there was something rewarding about having a say in your own options and decisions.
Rob
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If I understand this idea correctly, does it imply that you have to use the camera's memory to gather your shots, and once full, you have to find another device to which to unload it all?
In other words, unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera. If the lens is as good as one might expect from that maker, then surely it is a more serious camera than one just meant to replace a cellphone camera as means of sending images of your exotic lunch to your friends back at the ranch.
It was bad enough losing transparencies and b/w film as hard copies, but not even having a full card to show for it all...
All in all, I see these developments as an irreversible charge into less and less control of our lives remaning within our own hands. It is probably a generational thing, this latent resistance to external authority over one, but that said, there was something rewarding about having a say in your own options and decisions.
Rob
The number of options has increased exponentially. You don't have to buy the camera per sé. Whether all those options are contributing anything meaningful to humanity is a different matter. Perhaps the next gen simply don't define their existence by pictures, despite all the selfies.
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... unlike cards, where you just use another one once the first is full, you could reach a point where your photography has to stop. Doesn't sound very much like an ideal travel/holiday camera...
Fair enough, Rob, but... you can run out of cards, or film in the old days, too, and then the photography has to stop just as well.
Bear in mind the capacity of the built-in memory: 512 Gb. That’s ginormous. Equivalent to 6,800 RAW images, 50,000 jpegs (!). Or 188 film rolls (36 exposures) if you shoot negatives, or 1,388 Kodachrome rolls. Have you ever brought even 188 rolls of film with you for a shoot? How many hours that hand inspection at the airport would take? ;)
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Fair enough, Rob, but... you can run out of cards, or film in the old days, too, and then the photography has to stop just as well.
Bear in mind the capacity of the built-in memory: 512 Gb. That’s ginormous. Equivalent to 6,800 RAW images, 50,000 jpegs (!). Or 188 film rolls (36 exposures) if you shoot negatives, or 1,388 Kodachrome rolls. Have you ever brought even 188 rolls of film with you for a shoot? How many hours that hand inspection at the airport would take? ;)
Good numerical points, but I never ran out of film; one was always prepared. My argument would then step to the next level: so much riding on one memory? ;-)
Hand searches gave me a smile: in '79 I did my first Tennent's Lager calendar (for '80) in Mallorca. The security guys refused my hand-search request and indicated the sign saying the scanner was film-safe. I tried to explain the differences in film quality expectations but it meant nothing to them. In the end, one of the guys just picked up the whole film bag and pushed it into the machine... force majeure with a 9mm? The upshot was that some of my Kodachrome 64 pro films ended up with interesting khaki-coloured skin. Fortunately, the client watched the entire exchange of words, and enough material survived to enable the calendar without a reshoot, which for a first job with them, would probably have meant curtains.
But here's the thing: that was 1979, and I swore I'd never visit that cursed isle again. Less than two years later we were living there. Go figure; you can't: the island is magical. I think it's something deep within the mountains... On the other hand, I shot several jobs on Ibiza and couldn't wait to get off the bloody rock. Today, it would have been a far better bet for me, subject-wise, except for heath: when my wife was having her five-days-a-week radiotherapy in Palma, we used to chat with a German lady having the same treatment: she had to fly in from Ibiza every day for that treatment.
A link to a German fashion guy who lives there:
http://www.chicobialas.com/
Here's one I posted before, but can't get out of my mind. I wonder how many intrepid landscape photographers, used to carrying a ton of gear across their shoulder (like a honky-tonk woman), could survive a whole minute of this stuff at the same speed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFWDGTVYqE8
I think I finally figured out the technique of doing a moon walk, but am forever to be defeated by the minor problems of coordination, strength and translation into rhythm. Maybe a workshop would have helped me develop timing and musical talent... right.
;-)
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If 512G of internal storage isn't enough you can always tote along an external drive too. I have a WD 2T solid-state WiFi gizmo that I copy all my SD cards to. It's fairly small & light and seems rugged enough. Not sure if I can backup to it directly from a camera via WiFi (hardly any cameras will even upload Raw files via WiFi anyway) but it also supports USB transfer.
-Dave-
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My argument would then step to the next level: so much riding on one memory? ;-)
You mean like all the smart phones that serve as the only camera of millions of people daily.
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You mean like all the smart phones that serve as the only camera of millions of people daily.
Don't know about them; I only know that I used mine for a while as a poor P&S machine, only bitterly to regret it when asked to make a large blow up for display in the salon of a guy's yacht. I had to decline. He'd found the shot in a cellphone images gallery I'd put into my website, but now withdrawn.
The lesson was, if it's worth doing, do it to the best of your ability.
But back to the cellphones: if they are good enough to store your life memories within, then get a better life.
;-)