And Then. . .

[Ivo_B]

Can you explain what you think that means, Ivo?

That he didn't play it virtuoso from the first attempt but did some practice. (Training)

[RSL]

Ivo, I taught C at Colorado Technical College, and I taught C++ to the Cirrus Logic R&D division in Colorado. I might add that when I was teaching these things I learned that you either had it or you didn't. When I taught C, within a couple weeks I knew who in the class was going to make it and who wasn't. There were people there who'd decided to study computer science because they'd been told they could make a lot of money in the field. But they were like tone deaf people trying to learn to be concert pianists.

[RSL]

That he didn't play it virtuoso from the first attempt but did some practice. (Training)

If you go back and actually read what I wrote in that post you'll notice that I covered that.

Have you ever heard Levant play? He can break your heart.

[Ivo_B]

Ivo, I taught C at Colorado Technical College, and I taught C++ to the Cirrus Logic R&D division in Colorado. I might add that when I was teaching these things I learned that you either had it or you didn't. When I taught C, within a couple weeks I knew who in the class was going to make it and who wasn't. There were people there who'd decided to study computer science because they'd been told they could make a lot of money in the field. But they were like tone deaf people trying to learn to be concert pianists.

You taught  programming, I made car industrie running on it. So I think I have some background here as well. ;-)

In bold is another story than what you said initially. What is the purpose to teach programming language if it doesn't need training. (Your initial  argument) You say now exactly the same as I do and what you started counter-speaking (not sure why) => It takes talent (that what you recognize after two weeks) and training or education.

[Ivo_B]

If you go back and actually read what I wrote in that post you'll notice that I covered that.

Have you ever heard Levant play? He can break your heart.

Same as Chet Baker can do this on his trumpet or Emma Kirby can do it vocally, Russ, we don't need to argue on everything.

[Rob C]

Nice try, Rob. HCB got a training in painting.

That's not photography: that's a neon red herring.

No score.

[RSL]

You taught  programming, I made car industrie running on it. So I think I have some background here as well. ;-)

In bold is another story than what you said initially. What is the purpose to teach programming language if it doesn't need training. (Your initial  argument) You say now exactly the same as I do and what you started counter-speaking (not sure why) => It takes talent (that what you recognize after two weeks) and training or education.

Ivo. Knock it off. I did software engineering for thirty years. You're not paying attention. I've never suggested you don't need to learn how to use your tools. It's how you use them that matters. But that's after you've learned how they work.

[drmike]

I'll give you an example, Mike. I used to have a friend -- she actually was a friend of my wife. She was an "accomplished" pianist. She had achiever a great deal of competence through training and application, and she gave the piano a fair run for its money. But she played a lot like a player piano.

Which I thought was what I was saying