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Author Topic: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.  (Read 13039 times)

Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2018, 07:17:19 pm »

@ Doug

I’m interested in a comparison between one of the trichromatic backs and the IQ4 150 when it comes to LCC behavior but I’m also interested in a comparison when it comes to Chromatic Aberration and purple fringing. It’s visible on the chimney to the left in the “Nyhavn Day” sample pic and I really despise it!

The CA in that image does seem to be properly removed when you use [...] Analyze in the Lens Correction tool. But I agree some comparisons for this should go in our testing regiment when we have a ready-to-test back.

Wayne Fox

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2018, 10:01:51 pm »

Looks like BSI may make a difference, quite a bit.  This from another site, but pretty telling.

For Technical cameras, this back will be significant. 

Impressive just for the 23mm HR Rodenstock.  More testing needed for sure.
According to Doug, this test was run without the center filter on the 23HR, to me making the results even more dramatic since the main issue with the IQ4 150 seems to be more about density fall off and not color cast.  With a center filter the the fall off will be greatly reduced.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2018, 04:52:59 pm »

According to Doug, this test was run without the center filter on the 23HR, to me making the results even more dramatic since the main issue with the IQ4 150 seems to be more about density fall off and not color cast.  With a center filter the the fall off will be greatly reduced.

Agreed.

Though I'd want to test to make sure the center filters are of sufficient optical clarity as to not meaningfully reduce sharpness at 150mp. I have no reason to think they won't hold up, but I don't like to make assumptions.

Either way (with or without center filter) the increased utility of this lens on the IQ4 150mp vs IQ3 100mp seems marked based on this first test.

Paul2660

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2018, 05:52:03 pm »

Can’t wait for some more testing. Higher ISO and 50 through 400 with some push.

Surprised the 23 was tested over the 32mm rodie. That lens has benefits with the CF also especially on shifts.

Paul C
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alatreille

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #84 on: September 07, 2018, 01:03:32 am »

Can’t wait for some more testing. Higher ISO and 50 through 400 with some push.

Surprised the 23 was tested over the 32mm rodie. That lens has benefits with the CF also especially on shifts.

Paul C
They did also test the 32mm but did so with no movements.  I have no idea why they would show 'tech cam tests' with no movements.

Doug - can i ask you to test the 32mm and push it hard.

I often find myself in portrait mode with 15 -20mm of fall and 10-15 mm of shift. 
You'll hit the disc but I'd really like to see how it's performing when pushed like this.

I don't believe I've seen tests like this for any lenses (ever).  Usually they stay to conservative movements so it doesn't really show where the 'real'  limits are.

In my mind. How this back performs will make or break the viability of tech systems with ever increasing pixel density vs the smaller format system....or the older cropped sensors.

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #85 on: September 07, 2018, 03:09:12 pm »

We've posted a new article with a quick summary of the 32HR and 23HR test performed in Denmark. If you've already downloaded and examined those raw files the only new thing in this article is that we published the 23HR + 100mp Raw file (P1 only published the 150mp raw files) for direct comparison. If you didn't get a chance to look at those raws then our article (I hope) provides a succinct visual summary.

You can download all raws at the bottom of the article.

This is just the very start of the testing you should expect. This test was done in Denmark by Phase One itself and there is much that I would (and will be) doing differently in DT's testing in the US, such as including other backs, lenses, and movement combination. That said, it's a darn good start and the results are extremely promising.

Phase One IQ4 150mp vs 100mp 32HR and 23HR raw files

Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #86 on: September 07, 2018, 03:17:40 pm »

They did also test the 32mm but did so with no movements.  I have no idea why they would show 'tech cam tests' with no movements.

Doug - can i ask you to test the 32mm and push it hard.

I often find myself in portrait mode with 15 -20mm of fall and 10-15 mm of shift. 
You'll hit the disc but I'd really like to see how it's performing when pushed like this.

Yes. Absolutely.

I don't believe I've seen tests like this for any lenses (ever).


I recall all of our previous tech camera tests including the hard disk, but our tests are typically pretty massive (many many GB of data) so you may have missed those files. If you live in the US, it's pretty effective to make an appointment to come to our office or screen share with one of our techs, who can walk you through the huge inventory of test files to see what you find important.

alatreille

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2018, 10:51:23 pm »

Yes. Absolutely.


I recall all of our previous tech camera tests including the hard disk, but our tests are typically pretty massive (many many GB of data) so you may have missed those files. If you live in the US, it's pretty effective to make an appointment to come to our office or screen share with one of our techs, who can walk you through the huge inventory of test files to see what you find important.
Thanks Doug.  I must have missed those.

I'm in Canada...west coast so a while away from you guys.

I think the key is a rise/fall and a shift combo to really stretch the angles of the light hitting the sensor wells.

This new back is interesting but like so many others I was hoping (read dreaming wistfully) for a midway chip (50-100mps) for the tech cams and other commercial guys that don't need 100 or 150.

I'll be interested to see how these little pixels really do perform when pushed hard.

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Rand47

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2018, 10:07:23 pm »

Does that mean that there will be no more 33x44 offerings from Phase One?

I’m guessing not.  Cameras like the Fuji GFX 50s with its quality and price point, have pretty much shoved them out of that market, I would think. 

Rand
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alifatemi

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2018, 02:06:14 am »

We've posted a new article with a quick summary of the 32HR and 23HR test performed in Denmark. If you've already downloaded and examined those raw files the only new thing in this article is that we published the 23HR + 100mp Raw file (P1 only published the 150mp raw files) for direct comparison. If you didn't get a chance to look at those raws then our article (I hope) provides a succinct visual summary.

You can download all raws at the bottom of the article.

This is just the very start of the testing you should expect. This test was done in Denmark by Phase One itself and there is much that I would (and will be) doing differently in DT's testing in the US, such as including other backs, lenses, and movement combination. That said, it's a darn good start and the results are extremely promising.

Phase One IQ4 150mp vs 100mp 32HR and 23HR raw files


Is it possible to also have 150MB Achromatic files if any?
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eronald

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2018, 07:31:42 am »

I’m guessing not.  Cameras like the Fuji GFX 50s with its quality and price point, have pretty much shoved them out of that market, I would think. 

Rand

Their own pricing strategy and marketing has removed Phase from this market. Hassy are still there, making good money from the crop-sensor X1D.


Edmund
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 08:45:53 am by eronald »
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gebseng

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2018, 11:07:14 am »

Hi Doug,

Are results of your shifting/color cast tests in already?

thanks,

geb
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2018, 11:13:32 am »

Are results of your shifting/color cast tests in already?

Unfortunately not yet. The pre-production units that we've used in NYC, LA, and Texas have not had tech-camera shooting enabled in firmware yet. They are still wrapping up the code for the improved dark-frame feature, so the firmware on the pre-production units only works on the XF.

We're still committed to doing our usual deep dive into this topic with the IQ4. We are expecting a new-and-improved pre-production unit with newer firmware in time for Photo Plus Expo here in NYC the week of October 23. Hopefully that unit will have all features enabled and allow us to shoot on a tech camera.

I'm highly optimistic based on the little testing we were able to do (mounting to a tech camera and using Live View to examine the color cast on the digital back LCD) but definitely want to run extensive testing using a production unit before I remove the caveats.

Paul2660

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2018, 10:07:10 am »

Meant to ask, has the Live View output via the HDMI port to an external monitor been improved over the less than stellar design of the IQ3?  With the IQ3, the Live View can be sent to an external monitor, but you can only view the center of the frame and have no ability to move around the image. 

With all the great high nit monitors out there in the 5.5 and 7.5 size, just wondering if P1 improved the Live View viewing via HDMI with the IQ4?

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #94 on: October 14, 2018, 04:14:25 pm »

Meant to ask, has the Live View output via the HDMI port to an external monitor been improved over the less than stellar design of the IQ3?  With the IQ3, the Live View can be sent to an external monitor, but you can only view the center of the frame and have no ability to move around the image. 

With all the great high nit monitors out there in the 5.5 and 7.5 size, just wondering if P1 improved the Live View viewing via HDMI with the IQ4?

Yes. Huge improvements to HDMI:
- can zoom to 100% or zoom to fit
- can place the 100% review anywhere in frame
- better overall video quality/smoothness
- optional live histogram
- optional live RAW histogram
- optional live RAW clipping indicator
- optional readout of the menu system (mostly useful for classes/instruction)

matted

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #95 on: October 14, 2018, 04:46:32 pm »

What is the resolution of the video output on HDMI? Is it configurable, or fixed?
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Paul2660

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2018, 05:09:26 pm »

Yes. Huge improvements to HDMI:
- can zoom to 100% or zoom to fit
- can place the 100% review anywhere in frame
- better overall video quality/smoothness
- optional live histogram
- optional live RAW histogram
- optional live RAW clipping indicator
- optional readout of the menu system (mostly useful for classes/instruction)

thanks Doug, have to reconsider things a bit.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2018, 05:09:46 pm »

What is the resolution of the video output on HDMI? Is it configurable, or fixed?

As of last time I checked with R+D the final launch spec for the HDMI res and framerate was still TBD.

matted

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Re: Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2018, 10:05:12 pm »

Thanks. I have both a small OLED monitor and EVF I use for video stuff that could be very useful if the HDMI output is decent.
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