App for tethering the Fuji GFX on Capture One...

[wallpaperviking]

Just saw this on the Fuji GFX Facebook page....

http://www.martin-zwick.de/2017/10/29/howto-convert-gfx-50s-raf-files-to-capture-one/2017/

Seems to work pretty well, slower than native obviously but still seems useable to me...

Thoughts?

[Doug Peterson]

I'll just repeat my previous PSAs on the topic...

C1 does not and will not support the GFX. If you choose to use one of the currently-circulated hacks to force C1 to open GFX raws:
- The hack may stop working at any future release of C1
- The hack may stop working at any future firmware update to the GFX
- Can't use Next Capture Naming or Next Capture Adjustments
- If there are any bugs, crashes, limitations, issues related the hacked workflow they won't be fixed
- Speed (time to screen, time to process, time to view at 100%) may be deleteriously impacted, in some cases dramatically
- No tweaked algorithms for demosaic, noise reduction, diffraction etc
- No lens profiles
- No bespoke color profiles
- No camera controls from within C1
- No Live View from within C1
- If you follow best practices for archiving you'll need to keep two versions worth of disk space for each raw you capture (the native and altered version)

Based on the above I'd strongly suggest against using such a hack in a professional workflow, or even a serious enthusiasts' workflow. If you like the GFX, great, it's a nice camera; you should use it with software that supports it.

Of course each person can do as they choose. I just want to make sure that choice is made with the above issues and limitation in mind.

[TommyWeir]

And X-Transformer does this too, from an active developer.   I'd be more inclined to pick up this if I wanted to use C1 with a GFX.

https://medium.com/@kellydunphotography/revisiting-iridient-x-transformer-and-the-fujifilm-gfx-50s-312661c14a7d

But frankly I'd be keener on using the more full-featured Iridient Developer to extract the full value from the GFX raw files as my primary raw processor, it does a stellar job.   Then tweak the resultant TIFF files in C1, the tools are great for adjustments and the DAM approaches Aperture's level.

[pschefz]

thanks for that info!
C1 is great software and there are plenty of people out there who at this point wont buy a "professional" system unless can use C1 for tethering.....
C1 takes the time and effort to support nikon, canon, sony, but refuses to support competing systems even if they use the same sensors their own systems use....sounds like a desperate attempt to force people to buy into a phase system other then hasselblad or (now) fuji....
of course people will try to find a way to make it work....

as far as tethering goes, LR is really, really solid with the GFX, i am in no way a fan of adobe but i dont really see the big issue either....in the end most files get their final touches (or most heavy lifting) in adobe products....LR has made HUGE steps, conversions are getting better and better and the introduction of a profile workflow is great....
i think C1 would be better off taking on the challenge and start selling software to GFX (and other) owners....

[Doug Peterson]

C1 takes the time and effort to support nikon, canon, sony, but refuses to support competing systems even if they use the same sensors their own systems use....sounds like a desperate attempt to force people to buy into a phase system other then hasselblad or (now) fuji....

That's an odd statement, given that Phase One is the only camera manufacturer that supports tethering other people's cameras in their own software.
- Hasselblad's Phocus does not tether any camera other than a Hasselblad.
- Canon's DPP does not tether any camera other than a Canon.
- Nikon's Capture NX does not tether any camera other than a Nikon.
- Fuji's Acquire does not tether any camera other than a Fuji.
- Leica's ImageShuttle does not tether any camera other than a Leica.
- etc etc etc.

Would you say that Hasselblad, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Leica, etc are "desperate"?

I suspect the difference here is not that P1 is acting any differently than any other camera maker; indeed, in providing the best tethering software for Nikon, Canon, and Sony users (and raw processing for a myriad more) Phase One supports other brands of cameras far more than any other camera maker does. Rather the difference is that P1 is producing software good enough that users of other cameras very much want to use it. That's understandably frustrating for users of cameras that P1 does not support.

For clarity, Phase One has more than a decade of clear and consistent policy: They support every significant small-format camera, and their own medium format cameras. I'm not personally endorsing/supporting that policy; I am just clarifying the policy in case a reader is not clear on the criteria by which a camera is or is not supported in C1.

[alan_b]

That's an odd statement, given that Phase One is the only camera manufacturer that supports tethering other people's cameras in their own software.
- Hasselblad's Phocus does not tether any camera other than a Hasselblad.
- Canon's DPP does not tether any camera other than a Canon.
- Nikon's Capture NX does not tether any camera other than a Nikon.
- Fuji's Acquire does not tether any camera other than a Fuji.
- Leica's ImageShuttle does not tether any camera other than a Leica.
- etc etc etc.

Would you say that Hasselblad, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Leica, etc are even more "desperate"?

I suspect the difference here is not that P1 is acting any differently than any other camera maker; indeed, in providing the best tethering software for Nikon, Canon, and Sony users (and raw processing for a myriad more) Phase One supports competitive cameras far more than any other camera maker does. Rather the difference is that P1 is producing software good enough that users of other cameras very much want to use it.

For clarity, Phase One has more than a decade of clear and consistent policy: They support every significant small-format camera, and their own medium format cameras.

Capture One is also the only one in that list that costs money.  So, they’re both a camera mfg and a software vendor.  Seems like people project whichever of those identities onto them that benefits their argument.  It can’t hurt the cause if people keep up a steady stream of requests to Phase directly. 

Personally, I’ve stopped upgrading C1 Pro because of this lack of support.

[Doug Peterson]

Capture One is also the only one in that list that costs money.

Just for clarity (and not in direct response to the rest of your comment): Capture One Pro (for Canon/Nikon/Fuji/etc) costs money. Capture One DB (for Phase One cameras) is and always will be free. I find a lot of people are not clear on that point (though I know you are).

[pschefz]

That's an odd statement, given that Phase One is the only camera manufacturer that supports tethering other people's cameras in their own software.
- Hasselblad's Phocus does not tether any camera other than a Hasselblad.
- Canon's DPP does not tether any camera other than a Canon.
- Nikon's Capture NX does not tether any camera other than a Nikon.
- Fuji's Acquire does not tether any camera other than a Fuji.
- Leica's ImageShuttle does not tether any camera other than a Leica.
- etc etc etc.

Would you say that Hasselblad, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Leica, etc are "desperate"?

I suspect the difference here is not that P1 is acting any differently than any other camera maker; indeed, in providing the best tethering software for Nikon, Canon, and Sony users (and raw processing for a myriad more) Phase One supports other brands of cameras far more than any other camera maker does. Rather the difference is that P1 is producing software good enough that users of other cameras very much want to use it. That's understandably frustrating for users of cameras that P1 does not support.

For clarity, Phase One has more than a decade of clear and consistent policy: They support every significant small-format camera, and their own medium format cameras. I'm not personally endorsing/supporting that policy; I am just clarifying the policy in case a reader is not clear on the criteria by which a camera is or is not supported in C1.

no need to clarify C1s policy....i have been a phase customer since before they supported cameras other then their own....and since back then C1 was by far the best and in most cases the only player in terms of tethering, it made sense to start supporting the lower end competition to sell software....i am sure this has worked well since it became the de facto tethering "photoshop".....

i dont understand why nikon, sony, fuji,....should support any other cameras? i honestly dont know anyone who actually uses those apps.....tethering for the most part is just about enabling the camera to talk to a computer to transfer files....and in most cases a plug in or extension does the trick.....just like this guy came up with an App to make the GFX work with C1....i honestly dont know what the problem is with that or again why C1 just does not provide it, sell more software, everybody is happy....

the fact that the policy sticky only excludes direct competitors honestly seems a little desperate to me now....2 years ago, nobody cared...now things are different because the direct competitors have more or less pulled the rug out under phase with the release of the mirrorless systems and as amazing as the absolute top end product might be, i somewhat doubt phase can fund serious competition to fuji or hasselblad cameras (using the same sensors as phase at a much lower price)....

i am not disputing that phase might have a superior product for certain applications right now.....and superior software...but that is exactly why the stated policy seems so strange to me....not selling the software to a certain market in the hope that this market will turn to phase hardware? not sure about that....

the other side to this is that it seems like there is new software coming out every year....full blown imaging solutions taking a slice...maybe those aren't ready for "professionals" yet, but i am sure they are more then happy to sell to the far higher number of "prosumers" or just all those people who have 10000s of images and finally want to figure out an easy way to store and organize them....every single person with a cellphone is a potential customer for a DAM these days.....and that is a lot of people, most of which havent heard about C1 and dont work with ADs who might ask for it.....

as a long time phase and C1 user i just dont want to see it slip into some obscure end of the high end niche, wherever that is....i have little brand loyalty, i have owned and worked with most brands, i have loved and loathed certain things about all, funny enough the only software i still use and have used every day for the last 25 years happens to be adobe, which i might like less then most others, but in the end they have always made sure that i cannot do without them....and a huge part of this is that they have always, always supported everything.....

[pschefz]

Just for clarity (and not in direct response to the rest of your comment): Capture One Pro (for Canon/Nikon/Fuji/etc) costs money. Capture One DB (for Phase One cameras) is and always will be free. I find a lot of people are not clear on that point (though I know you are).

its also free to sony owners....

[Doug Peterson]

no need to clarify C1s policy....

Forgive me. When I clarify things like this it's almost always for the benefit of the 100 people who read the post for every one person who participates in it. While you and I are very familiar with the details, often new readers aren't even familiar with the basics.

[Doug Peterson]

now things are different because the direct competitors have more or less pulled the rug out under phase with the release of the mirrorless systems and as amazing as the absolute top end product might be, i somewhat doubt phase can fund serious competition to fuji or hasselblad cameras (using the same sensors as phase at a much lower price)....

Regarding the proverbial rug... Phase One's revenue and profit were up in 2017 compared to 2016, has been steadily growing for ten years and I expect it to be up again in 2018.

Regarding "using the same sensor" - a camera system is far more than a sensor. In fact between an X1D/GFX and a Phase One IQ3 50mp the only real similarity is the sensor; they are very different camera systems, each with unique strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention that only the smaller sensor that P1 uses (50mp crop) is found in these cameras. The full-frame-645 sensor in the IQ3 100mp Trichromatic is not found in any other camera.

the other side to this is that it seems like there is new software coming out every year....full blown imaging solutions taking a slice...maybe those aren't ready for "professionals" yet, but i am sure they are more then happy to sell to the far higher number of "prosumers" or just all those people who have 10000s of images and finally want to figure out an easy way to store and organize them....every single person with a cellphone is a potential customer for a DAM these days.....and that is a lot of people, most of which havent heard about C1 and dont work with ADs who might ask for it.....

Indeed! It's great news for all the prosumers out there how many new companies are now making photo software. My dad very badly needs a photo program focused very heavily on basic features and ease of use (I'm not being facetious).

I think it's also great that, while other software vendors focus on the masses,  Phase One has made it very clear that they will keep Capture One's feature set, performance, and design philosophy exclusively focused on the Pro and high-end enthusiast.

Both markets (general population, and pro/high-end-enthusiasts) need great software to be made specifically for them. In my experience Any attempt to make one work for both has had very lackluster results for either.

[Don Libby]

I stopped using Phase One well over a year ago. I kept using C1 for our Sony files and did the hack for our GFX files until one day I noticed that I could and still do get just as good files in post by using Adobe ACR and PSCC as I did with C1. I’ve tried over the years to learn to like LR however I never could.

I can’t tether to C1 nor can I with PSCC. I can however tether with LR which is the only time I ever use the program. I just loaded a new laptop recently and the one program I didn’t load is C1. I have found I don’t need it and more importantly I don’t miss it. 

[pschefz]

this is a little unrelated but not really....
DJI leaked their new drone today....with hasselblad lenses.....which is of course pretty funny since hasselblad has never made lenses afaik....but it shows why DJI bought hasselblad....X1D to keep the brand going and slap that brand on a completely unrelated (great) product which all of a sudden got a serious high end upgrade....if by name only....but those things sell like crazy and make how much ever money was spent on hasselblad in no time....which in turn will help funding X2D which will really start to hurt phase.....
doesn't DJI make lenses for their bigger drones? i would not be surprised if they move the (actual, X mount) hasselblad lenses in house as well....makes sense....
if i was phase i would bring out C1 drone tethered software....sooner then later....

[Joe Towner]

if i was phase i would bring out C1 drone tethered software....sooner then later....

The iXM system is the Phase One drone/aerial platform. They've got the only 100mp 33x44 camera in existence.  The buy in is high, and with the dedicated lenses even higher, but it's the top end product.

[pschefz]

The iXM system is the Phase One drone/aerial platform. They've got the only 100mp 33x44 camera in existence.  The buy in is high, and with the dedicated lenses even higher, but it's the top end product.

yes! you are correct, totally forgot about that one! so it is somewhat relevant here:)
i wonder what the sale ratio is...mavic to iXM

[HonorableSensor]

I personally, think it is pathetic in addition to being unwise, for C1 to not support Pentax 645Z, GFX etc. directly. 

Software margins are much higher than hardware (camera) margins, so getting $300 in nearly pure profit (marginal revenue) from a "person who bought from a competitor" is still better than getting "nothing"; and to remain the standard among fashion photographers and others that use C1 is more important than selling just a few more backs. 

C1 is likely to lose "its top of mind" position in the market due to these short-sighted shenanigans: Adobe with its money-spigot of cash flowing in each month via subscriptions could, if they chose to, spend many millions in crushing C1. C1's decision to not aggressively defend its market will end up costing them.

[TommyWeir]

It's an interesting question.

The tidal wave of cameras that swept across the range of digital options is still in full flow at the higher end of the market, I'd be curious to hear what the leaders of Phase One and Fuji and others see the future being when it becomes the quiet pool that prosumer DSLRs are.

If I was P1, I'd be looking to reach down and bridge to the current APS-C and FF camera owners and make their systems seem possible, they could open up a channel for new consumers to migrate up. Introduce a direct alternative to the GFX or X1D in short. 

I'd also be opening up C1 as a raw processor to all cameras, keeping P1 features, tethering principally but perhaps others, visible and intriguing. I hear a lot from high end / Pro LR users moving to C1 for various reasons, from speed to features.  I would be wary, if I was running Phase One, of being seen to limit options in the future for them.  The inability to process your raws is too much for new customers, but can't tether is not so much an issue.

[OwenR]

Just chiming in to say that, for me, the app is solid, dependable and fast enough for my work which is architecture and hotels. For now, I'm out of the C1 upgrade path unless they choose to add native support.

[BobShaw]

I find these sort of questions strange.
It is a bit like asking why Ducati doesn't make motorcycles with 4 wheels.

I shoot Hasselblad (and Canon) and tether to Phocus.
I could tether to Lightroom but I don't like Lightroom at all.
To me it is a jack of all trades, really master of none.
So for a capture and raw converter software I use the best for my camera.

If your camera doesn't come with decent software for what you want to do then you are probably buying the wrong camera, at least until they do.

[JaapD]

Within a few years’ time the by Doug described scenario will simply become too expensive for Phaseone to continue. Let’s be clear, Phaseone is not able to cope with the innovation speed of Fuji or Hasselblad, having their 100Mpix products around the corner. From that moment on the competitive advantage for Phaseone cameras will largely be vanished. Their products will still be best in class but due to the price difference only suited for a very small niche market (a bit like Alpa). So sales volume drops down, not being profitable enough to finance their R&D camera department. Then profits from their Captureone division need to be used to keep the camera development going, something their CEO and CFO will not allow for a long time, in the end resulting in a restructuring.

As ‘HonorableSensor’ mentions software margins are much higher, nearly pure profit after supporting Fuji or Hasselblad cameras. Low hanging fruit so to speak.

This all is by no means rocket science and the Phaseone marketing department is of course well aware of this and so are the CEO and CFO.

Long story short: the scenario that worked in the past will not work in the future anymore. In the end it is not a question ‘if’ Captureone will support Fuji or Hasselblad but ‘when’. I see Phaseone move in the direction as software-only company because there lies their strength and future.

I’m sure Doug will deny anything of this (the future will exactly continue the way it has been the past) and that’s perfectly understandable as Doug needs to protect his own business. I would exactly do the same in his place.