Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning  (Read 1328 times)

HartmanPrints

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« on: June 11, 2018, 03:42:37 AM »

Hey everyone!

I am curious as to what the consensus is regarding the automatic check and clean on these machines.

I had an epson 4900 that lasted me over 5 years and 30,000+ prints, and after the first few months of owning that machine, I noticed this feature was wasting a lot of ink and time, so I turned it off. I would always pay diligent attention to print quality and do nozzle checks often, so I assumed (and also read online) that it was a waste to have the auto check and clean on, unless you were not attentive with your prints. Aka not a very good printer!

So on these new machines (p5000 and p7000) they seem to do this check and clean every 20 to 30 prints, which is much better than the 4900.... that would run the check and clean cycle every 3 or 4 prints!!

I'm contemplating turning it off on these machines but I would love to hear some input on it. It seems it might be a cost of ink question, meaning am I willing to waste ink on this? I've also heard too many head cleans can damage the heads.

So should I turn it off and just do my normal routine  making sure the prints are clean and the nozzle checks are good?

Also, I normally print a nozzle check and view it, rather than doing a mechanical nozzle check, because the mechanical check always seems to give me blocked nozzle alerts when the visual patterns are clear.  Which do you all prefer?

TLDR;
Auto nozzle check and clean...keep it on or turn it off?
Print nozzle check versus mechanical nozzle check, which do you prefer?

Thanks!

-Justin
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 08:04:25 AM »

I covered this in my review of the SC-P5000. The Auto check mechanism seems to work pretty well and when it finds clogged nozzles a printed check pattern confirms it's true. That said, for analytical reasons I have turned all that stuff off. I want to manage nozzle checks and head cleaning manually so I can track over time exactly what's going on, not because I think there is anything wrong with the auto check system. That said, periodically the printer will commission an auto nozzle check that is beyond user control - it's built into the firmware and not user manageable, but these are infrequent, I suppose however depending on usage patterns. Roughly twice a year, so far my experience, the printer will ask for a an all channel power cleaning from the Admin menu which uses about 70 ml of ink. The printer will keep working without doing this maintenance, but Epson has advised me that one should do it to maintain the long-term health of the print head.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Dan Berg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 08:51:13 AM »

Different model here, P8000.
I have ANC turned off but anytime I shut the machine off and then turn it back on it does a full cleaning which I do not like.
Is there a way to turn it off?

HartmanPrints

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 05:43:09 PM »

Thanks for the input!!

Mark-Interesting... so even when you turn it off, it still does auto cleans? That's odd. And 70ml?? That sounds like a ploy from Epson to waste ink TBH.

Dan- It runs cleanings every time you turn it on? Does it say cleaning on the display? I haven't had that happen once on my p7000, which is essentially a smaller version of the p8000. It makes a sound similar to cleaning when I power it on, but can't see any actual cleaning happening. That's odd too.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 06:05:42 PM »

Thanks for the input!!

Mark-Interesting... so even when you turn it off, it still does auto cleans? That's odd. And 70ml?? That sounds like a ploy from Epson to waste ink TBH.


The self-triggered auto-cleans happen only periodically. There is obviously some kind of programming designed to protect the health of the printhead. This also applies to the 70ml admin power clean of all channels that in my experience has been requested twice in a year. It is not a ploy to waste ink. It so happens that up to now, given the kind of inks and printheads they are, no other method has been devised for assuring ink can flow through the printhead other than flowing it.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Garnick

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 786
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 07:34:33 AM »

Different model here, P8000.
I have ANC turned off but anytime I shut the machine off and then turn it back on it does a full cleaning which I do not like.
Is there a way to turn it off?

Hi Dan,

The situation you have described seems to be rather erratic, as it pertains to my P7000.  For some time it did the same thing at startup, but not every time.  And of course it would show the cleaning on the display as usual.  I also have all auto features turned off, but as we know, that does not prevent some auto cleaning cycles from running.  I finally decided I had to live with it and not be concerned about the amount of ink being dumped.  I no longer print the same volume that as I did before I moved my business to my home, so I'm sure that is also a contributing factor.  Even though I start up the printer every other day and run a nozzle check and an image I put together a long time ago that incorporates all colours and colour ramps as well, the auto clean cycles do still happen occasionally, as Mark mentioned.  My initial warranty expires in 4 days and I'm still contemplating an extension, but the lack of print volume doesn't seem to merit the $1,236 CDN cost.  Usually Epson would send a reminder of the warranty expiration, but not with the P7000 it seems. 

One question Dan.  Have you talked to Epson Support concerning the "auto" cleaning cycles at every start up?  Knowing your situation and the volume of printing you normally have, I imagine that printer does not sit idle for long periods of time, so what you have described certainly seems beyond the norm to me.

Gary       

Logged
LuLa - The source of ALL! -- "There's nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" -- Ansel Adams
Even though a big part of my life has been spent dealing with negatives, they generally end up being positives -- gan

Dan Berg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 09:25:41 AM »

Gary,
I have not talked with Epson. The last two times I shut the printer off it did not do the clean on startup.
I normally leave it on but was on 2 trips that took me out of the studio for 3 weeks. The first 3 or 4 times I turned it off after purchase it cleaned every time.
ANC is turned off.
In the quick reference guide page 36 it says you will find ACL under printer status.
No ACL it is not there on my printer. My ANC (Not marked ANC for some reason) is under Printer Setup- Auto Nozzle Check - Auto Cleaning Setting.

mramsden

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 07:23:20 PM »

Long term no use ... no apparent problem.

I moved house about 7 months ago, into a house needing renovation. My P5000 was securely wrapped up in a shipping pad, plastic wrap and cardboard by the movers (they did a nice job) ... but I had nowhere to put if until this week.

So: it sat for 7 months. I had read that the previous models the print head might not clean up after such a long period of lack of use, so was a bit worried.

My first nozzle check was disturbing: a blank sheet! But, after a few cycles cleaning, and the admin deep clean, it cleared, and is now working fine.

Logged

Dan Berg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 08:28:52 PM »

Thanks for the input!!

Mark-Interesting... so even when you turn it off, it still does auto cleans? That's odd. And 70ml?? That sounds like a ploy from Epson to waste ink TBH.

Dan- It runs cleanings every time you turn it on? Does it say cleaning on the display? I haven't had that happen once on my p7000, which is essentially a smaller version of the p8000. It makes a sound similar to cleaning when I power it on, but can't see any actual cleaning happening. That's odd too.


Yes, every time the machine is off and I turn it on it does a full cleaning. It says cleaning on screen. I now leave it on all the time.

Dan Berg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 08:32:10 PM »

Hi Dan,

The situation you have described seems to be rather erratic, as it pertains to my P7000.  For some time it did the same thing at startup, but not every time.  And of course it would show the cleaning on the display as usual.  I also have all auto features turned off, but as we know, that does not prevent some auto cleaning cycles from running.  I finally decided I had to live with it and not be concerned about the amount of ink being dumped.  I no longer print the same volume that as I did before I moved my business to my home, so I'm sure that is also a contributing factor.  Even though I start up the printer every other day and run a nozzle check and an image I put together a long time ago that incorporates all colours and colour ramps as well, the auto clean cycles do still happen occasionally, as Mark mentioned.  My initial warranty expires in 4 days and I'm still contemplating an extension, but the lack of print volume doesn't seem to merit the $1,236 CDN cost.  Usually Epson would send a reminder of the warranty expiration, but not with the P7000 it seems. 

I just elected to live with the machine on all the time which eliminates the start cleaning cycle. Need to call them one of these days to find out what they have to say about it.

One question Dan.  Have you talked to Epson Support concerning the "auto" cleaning cycles at every start up?  Knowing your situation and the volume of printing you normally have, I imagine that printer does not sit idle for long periods of time, so what you have described certainly seems beyond the norm to me.

Gary       

enduser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 502
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 10:12:11 PM »

Mark's statement says it all   "no other method has been devised for assuring ink can flow through the printhead other than flowing it."  Very true and useful if you think about it.
Logged

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4087
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 10:49:14 PM »


Yes, every time the machine is off and I turn it on it does a full cleaning. It says cleaning on screen. I now leave it on all the time.
something amiss.

I turn mine off and when I turn it on it does a nozzle check, but rarely follows that up with a clean.  Also when I wake it from sleep if it's been a while will do the same thing.

Same with my p5000.

not sure why Epson reverted to this, this was complained about with the previous models, and finally they changed it so the only time it ever did a nozzle check/auto clean was when the blacks were switched.  the problem is if I have one single missing nozzle I would like the option of printing anyway as that rarely shows up in the final work, but ANC will force a clean.

Not sure why epson doesn't understand when a users sets a parameter to not doing nozzle checks that means all of the time.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 09:17:34 AM »

something amiss.

I turn mine off and when I turn it on it does a nozzle check, but rarely follows that up with a clean.  Also when I wake it from sleep if it's been a while will do the same thing.

Same with my p5000.

not sure why Epson reverted to this, this was complained about with the previous models, and finally they changed it so the only time it ever did a nozzle check/auto clean was when the blacks were switched.  the problem is if I have one single missing nozzle I would like the option of printing anyway as that rarely shows up in the final work, but ANC will force a clean.

Not sure why epson doesn't understand when a users sets a parameter to not doing nozzle checks that means all of the time.

Wayne,

It's not that they don't understand - they do - they've heard all the complaints and suggestions in spades, they know how these machines work in intimate detail, yet we have what we have, which they can amend in firmware at their discretion. Given the technology, they've designed these algorithms specifically to protect the longevity and performance of the printhead. So let's simply accept that those of us buying this technology are buying what Epson thinks is best for the protection and longevity of the print head, which is the most expensive component of the printer. Given the cost and inconvenience of replacing these print heads, I have no doubt they are looking at longer-term reputational risk and firmly decided that more cleaning is better than more head replacements. Of course, change the technology and it may be a different talk-show, but here and now let us remain focused on what it is.

As such, there are two parallel maintenance streams: (A) the one they leave in the hands of users to manage as they see fit, and (B) the one over which the user has no control. Your complaint is about (B). (B) consists of those periodic Admin panel deep clean of all channels that uses over $50-worth of ink. The firmware has a program that looks at time and throughput to determine when it should be triggered. We do have the option of ignoring it, but the nag notice will remain in place till we do it. So we can place a bet with Epson that these cleanings can be safely ignored, but maybe they can't be - we would only know over the longer term - play at our own risk and peril. (B) also consists of periodic auto nozzle checks that are triggered if the printer has been left unused for a certain period of time; as you note, these may or may not trigger some cleaning. This is something most users would do manually anyhow under the same conditions, so it's no big deal. Turning to (A), as users we do have the option of turning off everything automatic about cleanings that they allow us to control and do it manually as we wish.

So in sum, having now used this machine for quite a while with a variety of usage patterns, I think they've struck a reasonable menu of options in terms of what they leave to our own discretion and what they consider mandatory based on their knowledge of the technology and what's needed to protect it. All that said, I too would like to see a product design - inks and printhead - less prone to requiring all this maintenance, but not at the cost of the print quality I've become accustomed to. So maybe one of these days there will emerge something that doesn't involve a compromise between cleaning, reliability and quality, but the technology isn't there yet.

As a footnote, I should mention that at least for my own conditions here in Toronto, I've come to the conclusion, based on collected observations, that humidity is the most critical factor for nozzle clogs in a P5000. When humidity is down in the 20% range, if the printer isn't used at least a couple of times a week one channel or another will need cleaning. When humidity is in the 40% range it can go unused for at least 10 days and yield a perfect nozzle check.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

enduser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 502
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 09:50:31 PM »

There's a subliminal fear in all of us who use these ink droplet printers that they are configured to use more expensive ink than the operator would like. It's this suspicion which leads people to question some of the use that happens when not actually printing something.
The best way to view the whole issue IMO is to look at ink costs per print and usually that calms  the nerves. But, all things considered, it's worth being on guard against ink overuse.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2018, 08:57:37 AM »

There's a subliminal fear in all of us who use these ink droplet printers that they are configured to use more expensive ink than the operator would like. It's this suspicion which leads people to question some of the use that happens when not actually printing something.
The best way to view the whole issue IMO is to look at ink costs per print and usually that calms  the nerves. But, all things considered, it's worth being on guard against ink overuse.

You know - just about everything is more expensive than I would like. I'm off to the supermarket shortly to buy the groceries - don't get me started - three little bags of perfectly usual everyday stuff and its well over a hundred bucks - this is crazy, but it's real. An Epson ink cartridge is going to outlast those groceries by country miles but I can't drink the ink and anyhow wine is much cheaper. But you're right, the cost per print is better to focus on, and no question that high quality paper is much costlier than the ink we put on it. Put it all together and adjust the value of the dollar for what it was in the late 1990s relative to today and there's no question with today's inkjet technology we can produce far higher quality work for a fraction of the real cost of the analog prints of yesteryear. I know - there are nostalgic folks who would disagree with me about the relative quality and there's no arguing with taste, but I'll stick to my guns on that one.

That said and done, you are correct that waste, or "overuse" as you put it, is by definition unnecessary and good to avoid, or as you say, at least "being on guard". But that just begs the questions of what we mean by "overuse" and whether "being on guard" achieves anything. Is ink used for maintaining the printer "overuse"? Only if we know that the printer is using excessive amounts relative to its own cleaning requirements, but we don't know that. As for "being on guard" - not clear what this means. The most we can do is manage the use of the printer so that it minimizes the need for cleanings, but that means we need to know how to do this. I really wish that both Epson and Canon would be far more transparent than they are about informing us what those "best practices" are. As it is, they don't tell us how much ink is being consumed for maintenance and there are no chapters in their manuals titled "How to Minimize Ink Use on Maintenance". So we are stuck with doing our own research and trading information on forums like this one. Useful, but not sufficient.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

praja343

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2018, 11:38:48 AM »

Mark Segal: "That said, periodically the printer will commission an auto nozzle check that is beyond user control - it's built into the firmware and not user manageable, but these are infrequent, I suppose however depending on usage patterns. Roughly twice a year, so far my experience, the printer will ask for a an all channel power cleaning from the Admin menu which uses about 70 ml of ink."

Is this approx 70ml in total i.e. for all the ink cartridges or for each cartridge? The capacity of each cartridge is 200ml and so about 2/3 of the cartridge is used for cleaning every year - almost $500 in total (assuming 2 automatic cleans a year)? That seems excessive.

Thanks for clearing this up.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2018, 11:53:33 AM »

GRAND TOTAL 70ml - not each cartridge.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4087
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 12:43:43 AM »

Mark Segal: "That said, periodically the printer will commission an auto nozzle check that is beyond user control - it's built into the firmware and not user manageable, but these are infrequent, I suppose however depending on usage patterns. Roughly twice a year, so far my experience, the printer will ask for a an all channel power cleaning from the Admin menu which uses about 70 ml of ink."

Interestingly I've only seen this from my p5000 (twice now in the past 18 months), but never from my p9000.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11537
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 09:51:24 AM »

Interestingly I've only seen this from my p5000 (twice now in the past 18 months), but never from my p9000.

That is more than "interesting" because the technology, the inks and the printheads are essentially the same. I wonder exactly what difference of details causes this different behaviour. Could it be that you use the 9000 much more than the 5000, so the 9000 doesn't "feel" the need for these purges? I have also wondered whether this is a firmware defect in the 5000, but Epson people with whom I've discussed it say it isn't.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4087
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson p5000 and p7000 automatic print head check/cleaning
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 05:58:37 PM »

That is more than "interesting" because the technology, the inks and the printheads are essentially the same. I wonder exactly what difference of details causes this different behaviour. Could it be that you use the 9000 much more than the 5000, so the 9000 doesn't "feel" the need for these purges? I have also wondered whether this is a firmware defect in the 5000, but Epson people with whom I've discussed it say it isn't.
I print more media through the p9000 since everything is large prints, normally 60 x 30 or larger.  The p5000 is mainly smaller cards.  The other difference is the p5000 is always with MK ink, the p9000 is 95% PK ink.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up