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Author Topic: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced  (Read 3975 times)

Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2018, 02:57:24 AM »

With the greatest respect to all there is an extraordinary amount of misinformation in this thread about these two new lenses.

See:
DPReview Canon launches updated EF 70-200mm F4L IS II and
DPReview Canon unveils Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS III USM for professional photographers

It's probably better to be aware of all the facts before making comment !
 ;D
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2018, 04:57:31 AM »

This thread has only been about the f2.8 version, focusing on the fact that Canon has only improved the coatings without changing the optical formula, AF or IS.

I think it is a sign that Canon is focusing their engineering resouces on upcoming mirrorless products, others donít and some wonder why Canon needs to improve a very good lens that is serving well pros.

Could you please indicate was wasnít factual?

Cheers,
Bernard

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2018, 09:26:50 AM »

.. there is an extraordinary amount of misinformation in this thread about these two new lenses...

No, there isnít.

(Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2018, 12:05:21 PM »

By the way, Bernard, I found a perfect t-shirt for you, the famous Nikon warrior you:  :)

« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:57:47 PM by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2018, 01:27:22 PM »

(Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur)

I'd not come across that quotation before, Slobodan. It's pithily put. Thank you.

Jeremy
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(formerly kikashi)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2018, 05:34:15 PM »

By the way, Bernard, I found a perfect t-shirt for you, the famous Nikon warrior:  :)

As long as he uses his camera anything works for me. ;)

Btw, what do you think about the rather pathetic announcement by Nikon of a 500mm f5.6 PF? My view is that they may be late with their mirrorless solution and decided to occupy some media space with a non announcement of a lens nobody expected them to release anyway...

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2018, 08:11:06 PM »

As long as he uses his camera anything works for me. ;)

Btw, what do you think about the rather pathetic announcement by Nikon of a 500mm f5.6 PF? My view is that they may be late with their mirrorless solution and decided to occupy some media space with a non announcement of a lens nobody expected them to release anyway...

Cheers,
Bernard

Sure sign Nikon is abondoning their existing DSLR system and focusing on their mirror less offering.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2018, 10:34:13 PM »

Sure sign Nikon is abondoning their existing DSLR system and focusing on their mirror less offering.

Funny, I was expecting you to write the exact opposite. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2018, 10:49:46 PM »

Funny, I was expecting you to write the exact opposite. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Same logic...tables turned.
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shadowblade

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2018, 11:20:17 PM »

This (the f/2.8) is more an update of an existing lens than a new model - same lens, new coating. They may also have retooled the manufacturing process for greater precision and better final performance - we don't know one way or the other, yet it's one of the things that manufacturers are constantly doing, and, in lenses, can greatly increase the optical quality (bringing it closer to the 'ideal' calculated performance) without changing the on-paper design one bit. Kind of like a 'stealth' upgrade - don't change the underlying design, but tweak the manufacturing so that it more closely follows that ideal design (smoothness of elements, grind accuracy, tolerances, etc.) And you end up with a much better final product, with little design work needed. Also note the lack of a new-model price associated with it. Just that Canon needs to call it the Mk III, rather than continuing to call it the Mk II, otherwise there would be major confusion out there regarding warranties, replacement/repair, not to mention the second-hand market (although the last one is obviously of little concern to Canon).

Likely Canon's next original 70-200 f/2.8 design will be for mirrorless - that's where their optical and electro-mechanical design work is going, and there's every chance the new coatings and other processes being added to the Mk III will also show up in the new lens. Canon knows that mirrorless is coming, is preparing for it sensor-wise (with emphasis on development of dual-pixel AF and the like) and that, for a successful launch, they'll need to have a high-end f/2.8 zoom trinity ready from the start, with the core primes not far behind - unlike Sony several years ago, they won't have the luxury of launching it into empty space, but will be in contested territory from the get-go and won't be able to launch the core lenses, one at a time, over several years, like Sony did. If it comes to that and the sensor and body are ready before the lenses, they may even have to delay launching the body until the lenses are ready - better to launch a fully-capable system from the start than to launch a half-ready system and gradually add the basic, core capabilities over the next few years.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2018, 11:40:10 PM »

Same logic...tables turned.

Great, so you do agree with my hypothesis that Canon is desinvesting from EOS then? Because I do agree with yours that Nikon is desinvesting from F mount.

Not only do I agree, I am going further and stating that on top of that I think they are late with their mirrorless progress.

Thatís the reason why I was a bit surprised by your comment. It seems to be 180 deg away from your previous ones.

Now, Nikon is at least managing to expand the enveloppe here though, as I am sure you will agree also. We donít know when itís going to be released, but judging from the outstanding image quality of my 300mm f4 PF, this lens on the D500 will do a killing among bird shooters, plane spotters,...

They are likely to sell a ton of these.

I have shot jets with my D5+400f2.8 and TC 1.4 and it is a serious challenge to track accurately at close range while maintaining proper framing. This lens will make a huge difference and allow a much higher success ratio thanks to a much lower weight.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 12:34:10 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2018, 07:49:57 AM »

Great, so you do agree with my hypothesis that Canon is desinvesting from EOS then? Because I do agree with yours that Nikon is desinvesting from F mount.

Not only do I agree, I am going further and stating that on top of that I think they are late with their mirrorless progress.

Thatís the reason why I was a bit surprised by your comment. It seems to be 180 deg away from your previous ones.

Now, Nikon is at least managing to expand the enveloppe here though, as I am sure you will agree also. We donít know when itís going to be released, but judging from the outstanding image quality of my 300mm f4 PF, this lens on the D500 will do a killing among bird shooters, plane spotters,...

They are likely to sell a ton of these.

I have shot jets with my D5+400f2.8 and TC 1.4 and it is a serious challenge to track accurately at close range while maintaining proper framing. This lens will make a huge difference and allow a much higher success ratio thanks to a much lower weight.

Cheers,
Bernard

No I don't agree with you...the tables that I talk about are turned on you...

Canon has released I believe 5 lenses in 2017...that is far from dead in my opinion. Yes mirror less is the future, but both Canon and Nikon are smart enough to know where their bread and butter come from and I don't believe will alienate their DSLR base.

Now Nikon is in a different position as they see their market share dropping every year, being eaten up by Canon so Nikon might be in a more desperate situation as staying status quo is a losing game. I'm sure Canon is salivating at the thought of Nikon abandoning their DSLR system and welcoming the flock of Nikon DSLR shooters over to Canon.  ;D
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2018, 08:10:59 AM »

Canon has released I believe 5 lenses in 2017...that is far from dead in my opinion. Yes mirror less is the future, but both Canon and Nikon are smart enough to know where their bread and butter come from and I don't believe will alienate their DSLR base.

True, but 3 of these are T/S lenses that will still be usable on mirrorless, right?

The point has never been to drop their DSLR mount, but whether they continue to invest in it massively or not.

Now Nikon is in a different position as they see their market share dropping every year, being eaten up by Canon so Nikon might be in a more desperate situation as staying status quo is a losing game. I'm sure Canon is salivating at the thought of Nikon abandoning their DSLR system and welcoming the flock of Nikon DSLR shooters over to Canon.  ;D

I think it is the opposite in the high end we are talking about here.

Nikon has mostly been losing in the lower end and gaining in the high end. Or at least losing less than Canon.

But if a desperate Nikon means better lenses for photographers, I am all for it!

I think we are pretty much done here.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 08:02:19 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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NancyP

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2018, 10:19:06 AM »

I am curious to see the rumored EF 600 f/4 "DO" (the Canon term for their fresnel elements, = "PF"). The EF 400 f/4 DO v. II is very sharp, has sold well, highly popular among birders in the market for expensive (> 2K USD) lenses - I think it costs between 4.5 to 5K USD. Youbetcha birders would be all over a 600 f/4 DO/PF. Of course, the rumors started around 2015, so who knows. Sometimes things that work decently in prototype are too expensive to manufacture at the desired price point.

All this about mirrorless - I don't believe that mirrorless will replace DSLR - I think that both will thrive.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2018, 10:28:38 AM »

Ok, wanna-be MBAs, letís go back to some technical aspects. The new f/4 apparently has a third IS mode, for moving subjects!? How does that work?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2018, 05:47:21 PM »

... The new f/4 apparently has a third IS mode, for moving subjects!? How does that work?

Anyone!?

Rado

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2018, 06:33:45 PM »

No direct experience but you can read about IS mode 3 used in previous Canon lenses in this article

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-100-400mm-f-4.5-5.6-L-IS-II-USM-Lens.aspx
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2018, 07:41:51 PM »

No direct experience but you can read about IS mode 3 used in previous Canon lenses in this article

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-100-400mm-f-4.5-5.6-L-IS-II-USM-Lens.aspx

Got it, thanks!

Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2018, 01:34:08 AM »

No direct experience but you can read about IS mode 3 used in previous Canon lenses in this article

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-100-400mm-f-4.5-5.6-L-IS-II-USM-Lens.aspx

This has to be one of the best lens reviews I have ever read.
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Ronny Nilsen

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2018, 02:18:13 AM »

When the new MkIII was announced I was thinking that this is a lens I don't need to buy, and at that point I didn't know that it was just a upgrade of the coating. I thought it was a full new lens that was going to be the best thing ever in the world. The MarkII is so good, even on a 50M body, that in real images I suspected the main difference I would se was in my bank account and on the MTF charts on the web. ;)

So as a Canon customer I'm happy that they did't invest to much in a new 70-200, but instead have used their resources on new lenses like the TS-E 50, 90 and 135.

Ronny
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